Nico Rosberg retires from F1

[KevinCamaroSS]

epom said:

Anyone else think Hamilton is over rated and has been lucky to be in the best car? Only saying.

Only Hamilton-haters. Hamilton got to be in the best car because he proved he could deliver the results, i.e he is one of the best drivers, along with Alonso and Ricciardo, possibly Verstappen.

[LDN]

Disastrous said:

I wonder why the drivers want to win the WDC so much?

"Not really fussed about points - my main focus this year is topping the Autosport Poll", didn't say Lewis Hamilton at the start of the season.

LDN, there's no need to try and insult me either. I've explained hundreds of times now who I think is best and on what criteria I'd base that. I just don't think my opinion matters to anyone but me.

I'll try again one last time:

1. 'Best' is a very subjective word, that most people will define differently
2. In the absence of a definitive definition of best, we have a WDC that takes into account car, team, reliability etc.
3. Drivers widely agreed to be best in the opinion of fans/insiders, frequently win WDCs
4. Given the above, the WDC is the only objective measure of 'best' available to us hence Nico was best THIS YEAR.

This is beyond tedious now so if you can't grasp that, then I'll bow out. I don't care if you agree or not, but you seem determined to put words in my mouth.

Nobody here has had to put words in your mouth... you've run yourself around full circle. Bowing out is probably the best idea; it couldn't have been spelt out any clearer. Read back the last couple of pages to give it another go perhaps?

[LDN]

KevinCamaroSS said:

epom said:

Anyone else think Hamilton is over rated and has been lucky to be in the best car? Only saying.

Only Hamilton-haters. Hamilton got to be in the best car because he proved he could deliver the results, i.e he is one of the best drivers, along with Alonso and Ricciardo, possibly Verstappen.

Bingo; according to some here; the team principals must all have Hamilton pillow cases

[deadslow]

LDN said:

deadslow said:

Trabi601 said:

The man love is strong in this thread!

those guys are comedy gold Their guy got his arse handed to him by Nico Rosberg, and we get 70 pages of .... but our guy is really the best, we wuz robbed

Rosberg is ranked third / fourth by the published polls. These are not polls that any of us have initiated... you know that, right? You should write to the publications and paddock pollsters, to express you're obvious displeasure at this confusing situ' you have found yourself in.

keep it coming, chum

in fact, have another

[LDN]

deadslow said:

LDN said:

deadslow said:

Trabi601 said:

The man love is strong in this thread!

those guys are comedy gold Their guy got his arse handed to him by Nico Rosberg, and we get 70 pages of .... but our guy is really the best, we wuz robbed

Rosberg is ranked third / fourth by the published polls. These are not polls that any of us have initiated... you know that, right? You should write to the publications and paddock pollsters, to express you're obvious displeasure at this confusing situ' you have found yourself in.

keep it coming, chum

in fact, have another

Thanks!

[Disastrous]

LDN said:

Disastrous said:

I wonder why the drivers want to win the WDC so much?

"Not really fussed about points - my main focus this year is topping the Autosport Poll", didn't say Lewis Hamilton at the start of the season.

LDN, there's no need to try and insult me either. I've explained hundreds of times now who I think is best and on what criteria I'd base that. I just don't think my opinion matters to anyone but me.

I'll try again one last time:

1. 'Best' is a very subjective word, that most people will define differently
2. In the absence of a definitive definition of best, we have a WDC that takes into account car, team, reliability etc.
3. Drivers widely agreed to be best in the opinion of fans/insiders, frequently win WDCs
4. Given the above, the WDC is the only objective measure of 'best' available to us hence Nico was best THIS YEAR.

This is beyond tedious now so if you can't grasp that, then I'll bow out. I don't care if you agree or not, but you seem determined to put words in my mouth.

Nobody here has had to put words in your mouth... you've run yourself around full circle. Bowing out is probably the best idea; it couldn't have been spelt out any clearer. Read back the last couple of pages to give it another go perhaps?

Completely avoiding addressing my easy to read list of points above I see.

The only thing that has been spelt out is that you and some others have a different opinion on the validity of the WDC as a metric to me. That's entirely it.

Your bizarre requirement for me to value Autosport as highly as you do is just weird. I don't/won't so if it's all the same, I'd rather bow out than read two pages of this dross again.

[Fresh Prince]

Disastrous said:

Look, I don't know what else you're after.

F1 has a lot of moving parts. There's a car, a team, a driver, strategy, luck, weather, reliability.

The WDC wraps all of that into a handy, easy to follow contest.

Rosberg won it this year, meaning he overall was the best. Alonso came tenth, meaning he overall, was tenth best.

This can and will vary from year to year. Alonso has a lousy car so can't expect to be better than tenth right now.

I can't really add more to it than that...

I would disagree with that. I would say that with the number of moving parts within F1 as you rightly mention, my interpretation would be the WDC would show who was a part of the best overall package for the year. Alonso came tenth, to me that means the overall package he was a part of (driver, machine, team) came 10th. Alonso as a driver is only a part of that, and the overall ranking wouldn't necessarily reflect his overall ability once you adjust for equipment, team, reliability etc.

So I can very well understand the notion that the WDC ranking does not always bear a linear relationship to the absolute or relative ability of a driver. Perhaps over a very long time, you can filter through the statistical noise and form a reasonable picture on a driver'a ability, but not over a single season.

I suppose that is the beauty of the WDC though, like a lot of other contests sometimes the best/most able/front runner doesn't win.

EDIT - I see the point has been alluded to in some posts above.

Edited by Fresh Prince on Monday 12th December 19:19

[LDN]

Fresh Prince said:

Disastrous said:

Look, I don't know what else you're after.

F1 has a lot of moving parts. There's a car, a team, a driver, strategy, luck, weather, reliability.

The WDC wraps all of that into a handy, easy to follow contest.

Rosberg won it this year, meaning he overall was the best. Alonso came tenth, meaning he overall, was tenth best.

This can and will vary from year to year. Alonso has a lousy car so can't expect to be better than tenth right now.

I can't really add more to it than that...

I would disagree with that. I would say that with the number of moving parts within F1 as you rightly mention, my interpretation would be the WDC would show who was a part of the best overall package for the year. Alonso came tenth, to me that means the overall package he was a part of (driver, machine, team) came 10th. Alonso as a driver is only a part of that, and the overall ranking wouldn't necessarily reflect his overall ability once you adjust for equipment, team, reliability etc.

So I can very well understand the notion that the WDC ranking does not always bear a linear relationship to the absolute or relative ability of a driver. Perhaps over a very long time, you can filter through the statistical noise and form a reasonable picture on a driver'a ability, but not over a single season.

I suppose that is the beauty of the WDC though, like a lot of other contests sometimes the best/most able/front runner doesn't win.

Exactly

[AW111]

KevinCamaroSS said:

epom said:

Anyone else think Hamilton is over rated and has been lucky to be in the best car? Only saying.

Only Hamilton-haters. Hamilton got to be in the best car because he proved he could deliver the results, i.e he is one of the best drivers, along with Alonso and Ricciardo, possibly Verstappen.

The mindset that anyone who doesn't love Hamilton / think he's the best is a "hater" shows how tribal some of his fans are.

[Trabi601]

AW111 said:

The mindset that anyone who doesn't love Hamilton / think he's the best is a "hater" shows how tribal some of his fans are.

I'm putting it down to them being 'new' fans who only came to the sport when their hero hit the sports pages.

[LDN]

Indeed some fans are overly tribal - Hamilton seems to be the only current driver that creates such hysteria. He has many fans that aren't tribal and simply appreciate his driving style... as the F1 media polls suggest. Equally, you get this strange mindset from some; that if you're a fan of Hamilton then you own a pyjama set with his face on

[Trabi601]

Well, at least Hamilton has one thing in common with his fans. A complete lack of self awareness.

[johnxjsc1985]

LDN said:

Indeed some fans are overly tribal - Hamilton seems to be the only current driver that creates such hysteria. He has many fans that aren't tribal and simply appreciate his driving style... as the F1 media polls suggest. Equally, you get this strange mindset from some; that if you're a fan of Hamilton then you own a pyjama set with his face on

whatever he is doing he is the only F1 driver who is frequently on TV promoting stuff his appeal must be worth people paying him for doing this stuff.

[LDN]

Trabi601 said:

Well, at least Hamilton has one thing in common with his fans. A complete lack of self awareness.

Nowt left eh? Tank empty?

[LDN]

johnxjsc1985 said:

LDN said:

Indeed some fans are overly tribal - Hamilton seems to be the only current driver that creates such hysteria. He has many fans that aren't tribal and simply appreciate his driving style... as the F1 media polls suggest. Equally, you get this strange mindset from some; that if you're a fan of Hamilton then you own a pyjama set with his face on

whatever he is doing he is the only F1 driver who is frequently on TV promoting stuff his appeal must be worth people paying him for doing this stuff.

Indeed. Button is on the odd TV AD - and Alonso used to be, on Spanish TV... not so much, any more, I hear.

[dmitsi]

I always struggle to keep up with thread's involving f1. Rosberg won the wdc, so he was obviously the best driver of 2016, Hamilton may be the better driver overall. In terms of age and achievements he has certainly bettered Rosberg.
This season showed Rosberg had excellent qualifying pace, so was certainly up there with Hamilton in terms of outright speed. Maybe he didn't have the same extra ability over a race but he proved consistency this year, which he'd lacked previously.

If we want a season to discover who is 'the best' then we need ten teams, 20 drivers and 20 races. Each driver does two races for each team over the season. Then when we get lots of drivers on similar points we take the top placed drivers and set them off on a qualifying shoot out where they have to drive each teams car's for 7 laps. The lowest overall time is the best. Or they could just do that all season.

[TonyToniTone]

AW111 said:

The mindset that anyone who doesn't love Hamilton / think he's the best is a "hater" shows how tribal some of his fans are.

The haters are as illogical as the lovers..

[Gary C]

Disastrous said:

Completely avoiding addressing my easy to read list of points above I see.

The only thing that has been spelt out is that you and some others have a different opinion on the validity of the WDC as a metric to me. That's entirely it.

Your bizarre requirement for me to value Autosport as highly as you do is just weird. I don't/won't so if it's all the same, I'd rather bow out than read two pages of this dross again.

I only disagree in so far as "the best driver in the world" wins the wdc when that is demonstrably not always true.

However, well done Rosberg.

Let's hope we have a close race next year, if it wasn't for you (Nico), the last three years would have been boring.

[Trabi601]

I hope we see Rosberg in lower ranking series - a little luck in previous seasons may have seen him retiring as a double champion - who knows?

The world of F1 is a worse place without him, anyway.

If rumours are to be believed, we could have quite a battle on next season - Bottas is no mug, so I can see why Wolf is interested, and if the new aero rules tip things towards Red Bull, we may see a 3 team / 5 driver battle for honours. A bit like 2013, with 7 different winners in the 7 opening rounds.

[Gary C]

Trabi601 said:

I hope we see Rosberg in lower ranking series - a little luck in previous seasons may have seen him retiring as a double champion - who knows?

The world of F1 is a worse place without him, anyway.

If rumours are to be believed, we could have quite a battle on next season - Bottas is no mug, so I can see why Wolf is interested, and if the new aero rules tip things towards Red Bull, we may see a 3 team / 5 driver battle for honours. A bit like 2013, with 7 different winners in the 7 opening rounds.

Believe botas is a non-starter.

Hope it's Alonso, but that's been ruled out too.

Hope wherline takes the fight to Hamilton,

hard.

Think he would revel in that