Nico Rosberg retires from F1

[glazbagun]

Nico for LM24/hr and the Indy500?

[Evangelion]

Disastrous said:

My definition of best is the same as the one the FIA use to decide who won the world championship.

Your definition is, what exactly?

So what about Stirling and Gilles, neither of whom ever won a WDC? Or Chris Amon, who never won a race. Are you going to say they're rubbish?

My definition of the best driver is the one who got the maximum performance out of his car, compared to its potential performance, on the day.

[LDN]

Evangelion said:

Disastrous said:

My definition of best is the same as the one the FIA use to decide who won the world championship.

Your definition is, what exactly?

So what about Stirling and Gilles, neither of whom ever won a WDC? Or Chris Amon, who never won a race. Are you going to say they're rubbish?

My definition of the best driver is the one who got the maximum performance out of his car, compared to its potential performance, on the day.

Bang on.

[LDN]

Gary C said:

Trabi601 said:

I hope we see Rosberg in lower ranking series - a little luck in previous seasons may have seen him retiring as a double champion - who knows?

The world of F1 is a worse place without him, anyway.

If rumours are to be believed, we could have quite a battle on next season - Bottas is no mug, so I can see why Wolf is interested, and if the new aero rules tip things towards Red Bull, we may see a 3 team / 5 driver battle for honours. A bit like 2013, with 7 different winners in the 7 opening rounds.

Believe botas is a non-starter.

Hope it's Alonso, but that's been ruled out too.

Hope wherline takes the fight to Hamilton,

hard.

Think he would revel in that

I'm not sure Bottas would be an option if Toto didnt manage him... having said that, I do rate him. He'd be a good pick.

[Emeye]

These "Best Driver" theories take a interesting turn if you consider that Rosberg owned Schumacher during the latter's second coming following retirement from F1.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/schumacher-...

And here is a very similar Button vrs Hamilton to give a comparison.
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/hamilton-an...

Best Driver? As others have said Best Driver means nothing as it is completely subjective, that's why marketers use strap lines such as Our Best Ever Sale.

Fastest Driver? Most Consistent Driver? Most Mechanically Sympathetic Driver? Fastest in the Wet Driver? Most Crashiest Driver? Earning the Most Driver?

All easier to quantify? Maybe

[Catatafish]

Emeye said:

These "Best Driver" theories take a interesting turn if you consider that Rosberg owned Schumacher during the latter's second coming following retirement from F1.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/schumacher-...

And here is a very similar Button vrs Hamilton to give a comparison.
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/11/hamilton-an...

Best Driver? As others have said Best Driver means nothing as it is completely subjective, that's why marketers use strap lines such as Our Best Ever Sale.

Fastest Driver? Most Consistent Driver? Most Mechanically Sympathetic Driver? Fastest in the Wet Driver? Most Crashiest Driver? Earning the Most Driver?

All easier to quantify? Maybe

"Seasons finished higher in standings: Hamilton 2 / Button 1"

same result as versus Rosberg. who is "best"? (considering the shaky ground of these statistics) who knows but Rosberg or Button are twice as likely to lose to Hamilton over a season.

[CanAm]

Well Hamilton and Rosberg fans can pick on someone else now as Motorsport Readers voted Daniel Ricciardo the "Best F1 Driver of 2016".

[768]

Catatafish said:

"Seasons finished higher in standings: Hamilton 2 / Button 1"

same result as versus Rosberg. who is "best"? (considering the shaky ground of these statistics) who knows but Rosberg or Button are twice as likely to lose to Hamilton over a season.

Overall points:

Hamilton 657 / Button 672
Hamilton 1145 / Rosberg 1024

Go on Toto, get it done.

[Vaud]

768 said:

Overall points:

Hamilton 657 / Button 672
Hamilton 1145 / Rosberg 1024

Go on Toto, get it done.

Get what done? Hire an older driver, former WDC who is past their peak?

[768]

Good God no, Alonso's done for.

[LDN]

I'd like a young gun in the other seat. Max is not an option but that'd be my preference; I know he'd trouble Hamilton and it'd make for a fiery season. But maybe one of Merc's young guns will manage the same.

[carl_w]

My prediction:

Bottas-->Merc after Merc make an offer that Willy can't refused
Button-->Willy although there is the small matter of the McLaren contract, but if he's been sensible he would have put in a clause for being approached by a "top team"

[KevinCamaroSS]

LDN said:

Evangelion said:

Disastrous said:

My definition of best is the same as the one the FIA use to decide who won the world championship.

Your definition is, what exactly?

So what about Stirling and Gilles, neither of whom ever won a WDC? Or Chris Amon, who never won a race. Are you going to say they're rubbish?

My definition of the best driver is the one who got the maximum performance out of his car, compared to its potential performance, on the day.

Bang on.

Agreed. To determine the best driver you have to remove all the noise of reliability and relative car performance. The WDC obviously does not do that. All it does is determine who has scored the most points in the season, totally ignoring relatve car performance and reliability. Over the last three seasons only two drivers had a shot at the WDC, it does not mean they are the two best drivers.

I admire Hamilton for his achievements over the years, from karting up. He is the ONLY driver to have won races in every season he has raced in F1, despite being in a very poor car some years. He is also the only driver who would have won the WDC in his rookie year if his team had not thrown it away in one race with a terrible decision on when to pit (China 2007).

[KevinCamaroSS]

Emeye said:

These "Best Driver" theories take a interesting turn if you consider that Rosberg owned Schumacher during the latter's second coming following retirement from F1.

It was obvious to many that Schumacher should not have come back, well past his sell by date.

[carl_w]

KevinCamaroSS said:

Agreed. To determine the best driver you have to remove all the noise of reliability and relative car performance. The WDC obviously does not do that. All it does is determine who has scored the most points in the season, totally ignoring relatve car performance and reliability. Over the last three seasons only two drivers had a shot at the WDC, it does not mean they are the two best drivers.

Yes but it's a team game isn't it?

The past rules where you could drop the worst round in each half of the season (hence mitigating the reliability issue) are pooh-poohed now. And you don't want to ignore a pooh-pooh.

These F1 teams are supposed to be at the top of the game. If they made the Merc more reliable, would it be as fast?

[Vaud]

carl_w said:

And you don't want to ignore a pooh-pooh.

Well, I hope so, Blackadder. You know, if there's one thing I've learnt from being in the Army, it's never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major, who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cos it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment. Morale totally destroyed... by pooh-pooh!

[carl_w]

Vaud said:

Well, I hope so, Blackadder. You know, if there's one thing I've learnt from being in the Army, it's never ignore a pooh-pooh. I knew a Major, who got pooh-poohed, made the mistake of ignoring the pooh-pooh. He pooh-poohed it! Fatal error! 'Cos it turned out all along that the soldier who pooh-poohed him had been pooh-poohing a lot of other officers who pooh-poohed their pooh-poohs. In the end, we had to disband the regiment. Morale totally destroyed... by pooh-pooh!

Exactly!

[KevinCamaroSS]

carl_w said:

KevinCamaroSS said:

Agreed. To determine the best driver you have to remove all the noise of reliability and relative car performance. The WDC obviously does not do that. All it does is determine who has scored the most points in the season, totally ignoring relatve car performance and reliability. Over the last three seasons only two drivers had a shot at the WDC, it does not mean they are the two best drivers.

Yes but it's a team game isn't it?

The past rules where you could drop the worst round in each half of the season (hence mitigating the reliability issue) are pooh-poohed now. And you don't want to ignore a pooh-pooh.

These F1 teams are supposed to be at the top of the game. If they made the Merc more reliable, would it be as fast?

I do not understand the context of your post. Dropping one round would make no difference in F1 today. There are more rounds and the cars are more reliable. Also 'team' does not matter in a discussion about the best 'driver'. As others have also mentioned it does not matter which team you drive for, either you are the best driver (or in the top 3) or you are not. Alonso definitely is, although he finished 10th simply because he was in a McLaren and not a better car.

The whole point is the car is not the driver and vice versa. Therefore you take the car out of the equation about the best driver. You also need to take out reliability as well. For somebody to win the WDC there are three factors:

1) Driver skill
2) Car performance
3) Car reliability

Only point 1 should be under discussion when talking about the best 'driver'. The WDC is a measure of the combination of all 3 points not just the first.

[deadslow]

KevinCamaroSS said:

1) Driver skill
2) Car performance
3) Car reliability

4) Driver consistency

[HustleRussell]

Is consistency not a driver skill?