Who will replace Nico

[Mr_Thyroid]

Wehrlein for one year, and then Alsono for two years to see him to his retirement.

[Vocal Minority]

Vaud said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

aeropilot said:

Unless McHonda's performance has been bad enough for Fred to be able to trigger any performance release clause in his contract, I'm guessing if McLaren refuse to let him go at any price, then Fred won't driving for Merc next year. He'll be in the McLaren or having to take a year out on gardening leave seeing his contract out if he throws his toys out the pram saying he wants to drive for Merc and not McLaren.

I am sure Ron put in place no performance related release clause when Alonso signed with them. It was mentioned in a press release.

Perhaps I am wrong but Alonso's desire to win another Championship would be greater than staying faithful with McLaren.

McLaren have shown Ron no loyalty for his service to McLaren so perhaps with Ron gone Alonso contract could be broken.

I am sure the contact is being read back to front by a team of liars sorry lawyers

The Contracts Recognition Board is the entity that decides.

If McLaren receive enough money, then they can say "this contract is no longer valid" and Fernando can go and
do whatever.

The CRB is recognised in place of the courts in this case.

i.e. anything is possible, though it is unlikely it will be easy to "break" the contract without McLaren agreement.

It doesn't even need to be that complex. A contract can be very simply mutually surrendered.

It's basically what a football transfer fee is....very basically.

[Vaud]

Vocal Minority said:

It doesn't even need to be that complex. A contract can be very simply mutually surrendered.

It's basically what a football transfer fee is....very basically.

True. I was over complicating it. If both parties agree, then it's fine. If there is dispute then it goes to the CRB for arbitration.

[benny 61]

Vocal Minority said:

It doesn't even need to be that complex. A contract can be very simply mutually surrendered.

It's basically what a football transfer fee is....very basically.

I never thought of that, but yeah.

[Leroy902]

As much as I'd love to see it, Fernando won't be coming to Mercedes. He won't be allowed to keep his no.1 driver in the team contract that he's had all his career if Lewis is his team mate.
That'll be enough for him not to join even if he's given the chance.

[CaptainMorgan]

Leroy902 said:

As much as I'd love to see it, Fernando won't be coming to Mercedes. He won't be allowed to keep his no.1 driver in the team contract that he's had all his career if Lewis is his team mate.
That'll be enough for him not to join even if he's given the chance.

But would the chance of a decent car be worth not having that clause? Possibly last chance of another championship, even if he has to fight for it.

[Nac34]

My first thought was get Button in the seat for a year until alonso or vettels contracts are up.
Or maybe a deal with bottas an a possible return for button in the Williams?

Could be a coincidence and also an error but on a certain betting site they have a list of drivers to win the WDC 2017 neither Rosberg or massa are on there but Button is at 16/1

[anonymous-user]

Nac34 said:

My first thought was get Button in the seat for a year until alonso or vettels contracts are up.
Or maybe a deal with bottas an a possible return for button in the Williams?

Could be a coincidence and also an error but on a certain betting site they have a list of drivers to win the WDC 2017 neither Rosberg or massa are on there but Button is at 16/1

Clearly an error.

Must have pressed the wrong Button.

[anonymous-user]

Leroy902 said:

As much as I'd love to see it, Fernando won't be coming to Mercedes. He won't be allowed to keep his no.1 driver in the team contract that he's had all his career if Lewis is his team mate.
That'll be enough for him not to join even if he's given the chance.

He didn't have number 1 status at McLaren against Hamilton, hence all the toys being thrown.
He hasn't had number 1 status at McLaren this time either.

I've sometimes pondered about Alonso at McLaren part 2, after he left on such bad grounds the first time with Ron. Fred backed himself into a corner by resigning from Ferrari without having a drive lined up.
Could it possibly be that Ron just served Fred up a cold dish of revenge, knowing the Honda would be hopeless for the first 2 years? It's his worst seasons ever.

[tyranical]

Merc cannot afford to take a gamble on someone like Wehrlein next season IMO, it is widely expected that Red Bull will be right on the pace if not ahead as we move back into an aero dominated era and who knows who else might come good, Mercedes need two reliable drivers to take the fight to Red Bull not a relatively unknown performer like Wehrlein whose credentials do not match those you'd expect from a driver at a top team.

I don't get this raving about Alonso I really don't - We have already seen what a rookie Lewis can do against an experienced 2 time world champion Alonso - I know we'll get the whole Lewis had the team on his side etc, but at the end of the day they had the same car set up how they wanted it, some idiot on a forum the other day tried telling me Lewis did so well because he just copied Alonso's setup - IF that was true what they basically told me is Lewis could beat Alonso with his own car setup LOL.

I personally want to see Vettel go to Merc, he is the 3rd of the 3 proven "greats" we have in F1 today, My opinion is that Lewis is the best of the 3 but the way to find out for sure is put Vettel in equal machinery and Merc with a 3 time and 4 time world champion would have an epic (if not explosive) line up.

Vettel is rumoured to have a performance clause in his contract where if he isn't given a competitive car he can leave - was the Ferrari competitive last season? Certainly not for race wins.

The problem with all the top drivers though with the exception of Lewis is they all have the expectation from the team of being given "number 1" status, that isn't going to happen over Lewis for sure and I think its really interesting that it's something he has never expected in his F1 career from Mclaren or Mercedes.

[LDN]

tyranical said:

Merc cannot afford to take a gamble on someone like Wehrlein next season IMO, it is widely expected that Red Bull will be right on the pace if not ahead as we move back into an aero dominated era and who knows who else might come good, Mercedes need two reliable drivers to take the fight to Red Bull not a relatively unknown performer like Wehrlein whose credentials do not match those you'd expect from a driver at a top team.

I don't get this raving about Alonso I really don't - We have already seen what a rookie Lewis can do against an experienced 2 time world champion Alonso - I know we'll get the whole Lewis had the team on his side etc, but at the end of the day they had the same car set up how they wanted it, some idiot on a forum the other day tried telling me Lewis did so well because he just copied Alonso's setup - IF that was true what they basically told me is Lewis could beat Alonso with his own car setup LOL.

I personally want to see Vettel go to Merc, he is the 3rd of the 3 proven "greats" we have in F1 today, My opinion is that Lewis is the best of the 3 but the way to find out for sure is put Vettel in equal machinery and Merc with a 3 time and 4 time world champion would have an epic (if not explosive) line up.

Vettel is rumoured to have a performance clause in his contract where if he isn't given a competitive car he can leave - was the Ferrari competitive last season? Certainly not for race wins.

The problem with all the top drivers though with the exception of Lewis is they all have the expectation from the team of being given "number 1" status, that isn't going to happen over Lewis for sure and I think its really interesting that it's something he has never expected in his F1 career from Mclaren or Mercedes.

Good points throughout but... credit to Rosberg; he also didn't ask for number one status. So it was a good pairing in that regard. But yes. Vettel / Alonso... both have asked for status. Hamilton has never asked. Pure sporting class.

[Leroy902]

tyranical said:

Merc cannot afford to take a gamble on someone like Wehrlein next season IMO, it is widely expected that Red Bull will be right on the pace if not ahead as we move back into an aero dominated era and who knows who else might come good, Mercedes need two reliable drivers to take the fight to Red Bull not a relatively unknown performer like Wehrlein whose credentials do not match those you'd expect from a driver at a top team.

I don't get this raving about Alonso I really don't - We have already seen what a rookie Lewis can do against an experienced 2 time world champion Alonso - I know we'll get the whole Lewis had the team on his side etc, but at the end of the day they had the same car set up how they wanted it, some idiot on a forum the other day tried telling me Lewis did so well because he just copied Alonso's setup - IF that was true what they basically told me is Lewis could beat Alonso with his own car setup LOL.

I personally want to see Vettel go to Merc, he is the 3rd of the 3 proven "greats" we have in F1 today, My opinion is that Lewis is the best of the 3 but the way to find out for sure is put Vettel in equal machinery and Merc with a 3 time and 4 time world champion would have an epic (if not explosive) line up.

Vettel is rumoured to have a performance clause in his contract where if he isn't given a competitive car he can leave - was the Ferrari competitive last season? Certainly not for race wins.

The problem with all the top drivers though with the exception of Lewis is they all have the expectation from the team of being given "number 1" status, that isn't going to happen over Lewis for sure and I think its really interesting that it's something he has never expected in his F1 career from Mclaren or Mercedes.

Agree with everything apart from Vettel being 3rd of a list of greats currently on the grid.

Unless between now and the end of his career he does something amazing, he don't be looked at as a great 20 years from now.

[37chevy]

jsf said:

He didn't have number 1 status at McLaren against Hamilton, hence all the toys being thrown.
He hasn't had number 1 status at McLaren this time either.

I've sometimes pondered about Alonso at McLaren part 2, after he left on such bad grounds the first time with Ron. Fred backed himself into a corner by resigning from Ferrari without having a drive lined up.
Could it possibly be that Ron just served Fred up a cold dish of revenge, knowing the Honda would be hopeless for the first 2 years? It's his worst seasons ever.

Indeed....good article on the events...http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/22058/9563370/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-fernando-alonsos-season-at-mclaren-in-2007

And people say hamiltons nasty...at least he's never bribed his boss to be number 1...

[tyranical]

Leroy902 said:

Agree with everything apart from Vettel being 3rd of a list of greats currently on the grid.

Unless between now and the end of his career he does something amazing, he don't be looked at as a great 20 years from now.

a 4 time world champion is always going to be looked at in 20 years as something special, even if it was "just the car" (FYI I don't think it was, for 2 of his titles at least) - His relatively uneventful time at Ferrari will tarnish it somewhat but he's got plenty of time yet to come good again.

I should have added to my original post, Vettel is who I would like to see not who I think it will be.

I personally think that Merc will get Bottas - it should be a relatively easy deal for them - Wolff manages Bottas, Bottas drives for Williams, Williams use Mercedes engines and he is a reliable performer - I would put him on a similar level to Rosberg personally.

So many stars align in that scenario already that i'd be surprised if that wasn't the end outcome.

[LDN]

ash73 said:

tyranical said:

I don't get this raving about Alonso I really don't - We have already seen what a rookie Lewis can do against an experienced 2 time world champion Alonso - I know we'll get the whole Lewis had the team on his side etc, but at the end of the day they had the same car set up how they wanted it

Alonso didn't share that opinion after Q3 in China iirc, anyhow it's history now.

The numbers don't lie. Alonso couldn't beat rookie Hamilton. It proves what a sensation Hamilton was.

[rubystone]

tyranical said:

Merc cannot afford to take a gamble on someone like Wehrlein next season IMO, it is widely expected that Red Bull will be right on the pace if not ahead as we move back into an aero dominated era and who knows who else might come good, Mercedes need two reliable drivers to take the fight to Red Bull not a relatively unknown performer like Wehrlein whose credentials do not match those you'd expect from a driver at a top team.

I don't get this raving about Alonso I really don't - We have already seen what a rookie Lewis can do against an experienced 2 time world champion Alonso - I know we'll get the whole Lewis had the team on his side etc, but at the end of the day they had the same car set up how they wanted it, some idiot on a forum the other day tried telling me Lewis did so well because he just copied Alonso's setup - IF that was true what they basically told me is Lewis could beat Alonso with his own car setup LOL.

I personally want to see Vettel go to Merc, he is the 3rd of the 3 proven "greats" we have in F1 today, My opinion is that Lewis is the best of the 3 but the way to find out for sure is put Vettel in equal machinery and Merc with a 3 time and 4 time world champion would have an epic (if not explosive) line up.

Vettel is rumoured to have a performance clause in his contract where if he isn't given a competitive car he can leave - was the Ferrari competitive last season? Certainly not for race wins.

The problem with all the top drivers though with the exception of Lewis is they all have the expectation from the team of being given "number 1" status, that isn't going to happen over Lewis for sure and I think its really interesting that it's something he has never expected in his F1 career from Mclaren or Mercedes.

Interested to know where the Vettel rumours come from. Ferrari will have him on a water tight contract; after all, they only got him because he had a performance clause in his RBR one.

It's interesting that no one is hypothesising about how good Wehrlein would be in the Mercedes. He could be as good as Max. After all he beat a very strong field in DTM including Di Resta and Paffet.

Hamilton had many miles of testing in that McLaren under his belt when he came into F1 in 2007. Alonso didn't. They are the two best drivers in F1 right now. It seems that even if they wanted him, Mercedes will not necessarily want to double their driver investment, nor upset Hamilton. But rest assured, Alonso would make Lewis' bed in return for the drive. Forget the 'number 1' status requirement!!!

Btw, speaking with a man who knows, it is true that Lewis did use Alonso's experience to help him. Including, at some races, his baseline setting. Whether that means he beat Alonso with his own setup, I can't say, because he didn't use it st every race.

[SeeFive]

jsf said:

He didn't have number 1 status at McLaren against Hamilton, hence all the toys being thrown.
He hasn't had number 1 status at McLaren this time either.

I've sometimes pondered about Alonso at McLaren part 2, after he left on such bad grounds the first time with Ron. Fred backed himself into a corner by resigning from Ferrari without having a drive lined up.
Could it possibly be that Ron just served Fred up a cold dish of revenge, knowing the Honda would be hopeless for the first 2 years? It's his worst seasons ever.

Try 2001 in the Minardi. Zero points from 17 races, 23rd in the championship. But I get the sentiment...

Pedant mode off now

[Cold]

Looks like they've made their choice, possibly due to some pressure from Toto.

[Alicatt1]

Cold said:

Looks like they've made their choice, possibly due to some pressure from Toto.

I thought the F1 cars were single seaters

[rdjohn]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

I am sure Ron put in place no performance related release clause when Alonso signed with them. It was mentioned in a press release.

Perhaps I am wrong but Alonso's desire to win another Championship would be greater than staying faithful with McLaren.

McLaren have shown Ron no loyalty for his service to McLaren so perhaps with Ron gone Alonso contract could be broken.

I am sure the contact is being read back to front by a team of liars sorry lawyers

I am sure Honda, who pay a huge chunk of his salary, will be deliriously happy with if he was allowed to move-on.

The choice is Bottas, or Wehrlein, I still think it will end up being the latter on a 1-year contract, leaving the way open in 2018 when the choice of available drivers is much greater.