Who will replace Nico

[Hungrymc]

VolvoT5 said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Very much so. Williams have rejected their first offer as you would in any negotiation but frank Williams isn't daft a few million in the bank and cheap engines will do them nicely.

If they end up with two inexperienced drivers who are performing below par they could end up 6th or 7th in the constructors which would cost them a lot more than the money they will get for Bottas.

I wonder how robust and what clauses are in the engine contract? I guess Nico has also shown the driver contracts are not terribly robust, although I understand it maybe different if you're leaving the sport as it's harder (though not impossible) to bring sanctions and consequences.

Merc are such a big fish at the moment that they can't be easy to fight off.

[Vocal Minority]

Leroy902 said:

housen said:

Podie said:

I suspect whomever Merc want, is under contract and if it was a quick and simple process the seat would be filled.

Bottas is mentioned a lot. He's under contract to Williams, so Merc might be offering a cheaper engine deal - but that would possibly leave Williams with 2 inexperienced drivers... which they probably wouldn't want.

I suspect there are several moving parts to this puzzle....

button

Nope.

Wish is very much father of the thought on this one

[Vaud]

Hungrymc said:

I wonder how robust and what clauses are in the engine contract? I guess Nico has also shown the driver contracts are not terribly robust, although I understand it maybe different if you're leaving the sport as it's harder (though not impossible) to bring sanctions and consequences.

Merc are such a big fish at the moment that they can't be easy to fight off.

You don't understand contracts.

Nico's contract was (probably) extremely robust. But you can't force a driver to race. Nor is it wise to apply penalty, though the penalty in this case is a future monetary loss as reigning WDC.

You can, however, stop him racing elsewhere through the contract. Also, aside from the contract (which in the best partnerships you leave in the drawer), there is the goodwill element that is nigh on impossible to put a value on.

[suffolk009]

My understanding is that Nico can't now race in F1, or elsewhere, for the next two years - the term of his contract with Merc. After that he's free to make a comeback (I doubt he will).

[Podie]

So latest reports in the media saying Williams declined Mercedes initial offer for Bottas...

[Flooble]

Latest media reports might be based on reading this thread for all we know, some guy posted about Wiliams declining the first offer a day or two ago on here.

Let's see what we can put in the rumour mill. I heard that Hamilton is also retiring and Mercedes are going to bring back Nigel Mansell and Alain Prost as a "masters team". They just need to get Bernie to adjust the regulations on weight and size of car

[suffolk009]

Joe Saward now suggesting that Stroll's contract at Williams is likely to list Bottas as his team mate. Someone experienced to set the car up, and it'd be okay for Stroll to be regularly bested by Bottas - not so agreeable if it's another rookie (or near rookie) beating you.

[Hungrymc]

Vaud said:

You don't understand contracts.

Nico's contract was (probably) extremely robust. But you can't force a driver to race. Nor is it wise to apply penalty, though the penalty in this case is a future monetary loss as reigning WDC.

You can, however, stop him racing elsewhere through the contract. Also, aside from the contract (which in the best partnerships you leave in the drawer), there is the goodwill element that is nigh on impossible to put a value on.

That was a dickish way to start your post. I understand contracts, I understand business and negotiating from different positions of relative power and influence.

Contracts can withhold significant benefit pending the full conclusion of the contract. Very possible that some of Nicos benefits (many bonuses linked to winning the WDC and the commercial opportunities it brings) could have been tied down with completion of the terms along with some compensation for early termination. That would be robust, but I get the impression this is not in place, maybe deliberately so, maybe because they expect better behaviour along the lines you hint at by never needing to refer to a contract - obviously in this instance ithat is not the case. You don't have to agree.

Same with the engine supply. There may be so many clauses that I wonder if there is still some leverage Merc could apply.

I'm not saying they should. But if they are half as professional as they like to appear, there would be leverage they can bring to bear.

Edited to add : I'm looking at the angle of Merc extracting Bottas - not in any way suggesting they retain Nico (but I'm sure Nicos decision will be a costly one if the driver contracts are of any quality).

Edited by Hungrymc on Monday 12th December 10:51

[WestyCarl]

Hungrymc said:

That was a dickish way to start your post. I understand contracts, I understand business and negotiating from different positions of relative power and influence.

Contracts can withhold significant benefit pending the full conclusion of the contract. Very possible that some of Nicos benefits (many bonuses linked to winning the WDC and the commercial opportunities it brings) could have been tied down with completion of the terms along with some compensation for early termination. That would be robust, but I get the impression this is not in place, maybe deliberately so, maybe because they expect better behaviour along the lines you hint at by never needing to refer to a contract - obviously in this instance ithat is not the case. You don't have to agree.

Same with the engine supply. There may be so many clauses that I wonder if there is still some leverage Merc could apply.

I'm not saying they should. But if they are half as professional as they like to appear, there would be leverage they can bring to bear.

Edited to add : I'm looking at the angle of Merc extracting Bottas - not in any way suggesting they retain Nico (but I'm sure Nicos decision will be a costly one if the driver contracts are of any quality).

Edited by Hungrymc on Monday 12th December 10:51

Merc will retain Nico as some sort of ambassador or something, apparently he's great with sponsors and being WDC is invaluable.

If they really want Botas, they will get him as well, it might need more money, more Tech support or a longer contract but everyone has a price and as Williams are already a partner it should be easier than dealing for Alonso or Verstapen.

Or it could be a story put out in the papers just to get someone else's price down...........

[housen]

WestyCarl said:

Hungrymc said:

That was a dickish way to start your post. I understand contracts, I understand business and negotiating from different positions of relative power and influence.

Contracts can withhold significant benefit pending the full conclusion of the contract. Very possible that some of Nicos benefits (many bonuses linked to winning the WDC and the commercial opportunities it brings) could have been tied down with completion of the terms along with some compensation for early termination. That would be robust, but I get the impression this is not in place, maybe deliberately so, maybe because they expect better behaviour along the lines you hint at by never needing to refer to a contract - obviously in this instance ithat is not the case. You don't have to agree.

Same with the engine supply. There may be so many clauses that I wonder if there is still some leverage Merc could apply.

I'm not saying they should. But if they are half as professional as they like to appear, there would be leverage they can bring to bear.

Edited to add : I'm looking at the angle of Merc extracting Bottas - not in any way suggesting they retain Nico (but I'm sure Nicos decision will be a costly one if the driver contracts are of any quality).

Edited by Hungrymc on Monday 12th December 10:51

Merc will retain Nico as some sort of ambassador or something, apparently he's great with sponsors and being WDC is invaluable.

If they really want Botas, they will get him as well, it might need more money, more Tech support or a longer contract but everyone has a price and as Williams are already a partner it should be easier than dealing for Alonso or Verstapen.

Or it could be a story put out in the papers just to get someone else's price down...........

nico is gone

lost all privileges

[anonymous-user]

If Mercedes have bid for Bottas then so much for Toto Wolff stating he would not want to take Williams number 1.

But did he even say that or is it just the press.

[Hungrymc]

ELUSIVEJIM said:

If Mercedes have bid for Bottas then so much for Toto Wolff stating he would not want to take Williams number 1.

But did he even say that or is it just the press.

It's a tangled web.

I agree though, if Merc really want Bottas it would be very hard to stop (and could be very damaging to the power unit side).

I think he's the obvious candidate but not sure if Merc will want to continue all of the shenanigans that this has started.

[WestyCarl]

housen said:

nico is gone

lost all privileges

Not a chance. Merc will want to keep him as some sort of ambassador to show round sponsors, even if it's just 1-2 days month.

[aeropilot]

suffolk009 said:

Joe Saward now suggesting that Stroll's contract at Williams is likely to list Bottas as his team mate. Someone experienced to set the car up, and it'd be okay for Stroll to be regularly bested by Bottas - not so agreeable if it's another rookie (or near rookie) beating you.

There's also the 'what if' scenario of, even if Williams let him go in a deal, I wonder what 'conflict of interest' could occur with Bottas at end of next year if say, Alonso declines to renew his Macca contract if they are still woefully off-pace come the summer break?
With Toto being Bottas manager, would he do the best for his driver, if his team had the opportunity to get an Alono or Vettel in the Merc team.....?
That would be an interesting situation.
If I was Bottas, I would be uneasy about signing for Merc without some interesting contract stipulations

[The Surveyor]

aeropilot said:

There's also the 'what if' scenario of, even if Williams let him go in a deal, I wonder what 'conflict of interest' could occur with Bottas at end of next year if say, Alonso declines to renew his Macca contract if they are still woefully off-pace come the summer break?
With Toto being Bottas manager, would he do the best for his driver, if his team had the opportunity to get an Alono or Vettel in the Merc team.....?
That would be an interesting situation.
If I was Bottas, I would be uneasy about signing for Merc without some interesting contract stipulations

The problem would be made very simple if Bottas excelled. It's in his court to make his ownership of the seat a permanent thing regardless of who else becomes available.

[housen]

I understand its a business etc etc

but lets say they put verstappen or Alonso in the merc

would that not double viewing figures next year = more cash

could hype it up like a boxing fight between now and then

bottas

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

cant Bernie make a call

[rdjohn]

ZX10R NIN said:

I'm saying Sainz he kept Max honest & is experienced in F1, also his contract might be the easiest to break, Bottas could really hurt Williams, a cheap engine deal is no good if you drop down in the constructors championship & the money that brings.

A mere 12 months ago Toto rolled-over RB by reneging on an engine deal they had agreed with Nikki Lauda.

They can afford to wave 2-fingers at any approach for any of their drivers. Their best bet for 2017 will be if Mercedes has just one top driver, against their two.

The answer still looks like the young guy Mercedes already have under contract.

[anonymous-user]

Hungrymc said:

It's a tangled web.

I agree though, if Merc really want Bottas it would be very hard to stop (and could be very damaging to the power unit side).

I think he's the obvious candidate but not sure if Merc will want to continue all of the shenanigans that this has started.

I very much doubt the carrot of Mercedes would be able to stop any driver joining Mercedes.

I would not be surprised if each team in the paddock "apart from Red Bull" are looking for drivers in case.

[anonymous-user]

housen said:

I understand its a business etc etc

but lets say they put verstappen or Alonso in the merc

would that not double viewing figures next year = more cash

could hype it up like a boxing fight between now and then

bottas

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

cant Bernie make a call

I would be very surprised if Bernie is not making calls.

A big name alongside Hamilton would be mega money for F1.

[suffolk009]

aeropilot said:

suffolk009 said:

Joe Saward now suggesting that Stroll's contract at Williams is likely to list Bottas as his team mate. Someone experienced to set the car up, and it'd be okay for Stroll to be regularly bested by Bottas - not so agreeable if it's another rookie (or near rookie) beating you.

There's also the 'what if' scenario of, even if Williams let him go in a deal, I wonder what 'conflict of interest' could occur with Bottas at end of next year if say, Alonso declines to renew his Macca contract if they are still woefully off-pace come the summer break?
With Toto being Bottas manager, would he do the best for his driver, if his team had the opportunity to get an Alono or Vettel in the Merc team.....?
That would be an interesting situation.
If I was Bottas, I would be uneasy about signing for Merc without some interesting contract stipulations

If I was the board at Mercedes (they're really big on corporate governance apparently) I wouldn't want Toto negotiating with himself to get Bottas. Very obvious conflict there.