Who will replace Nico

[Redlake27]

I think the negotiations behind this are fascinating:


Williams can squeeze Merc for compensation
Bottas will want a plan B for 2018 (eg: a guarantee of a Williams seat again if Merc do go for a big name)
Toto will probably want to ensure Williams are competitive because if/when the day comes that Merc sell the Brackley operation it may be appealing for him to rekindle his interest in Williams.
Merc may want Wehrlein in 2018 - or at least place him at Williams to replace Massa.

It's complex, but Clare Williams holds the strongest cards to do well out of this.

[London424]

tommunster10 said:

Fair enough, just an opinion, wasn't that long ago Williams were getting a few 2nd places and 3rds, 2014... Not totally beyond silly really. If you have a Merc engine in the back and you just helped Merc out plus Toto is a mentor of Claire...you never know..

Oh and you need to see what Stroll did for his little lamb in the lower formula..... giving Williams £20 mil makes you a big fish...

Edited by tommunster10 on Wednesday 4th January 17:03

So £20 to a charity of choice then?

[KevinCamaroSS]

The real problem Williams has is it's drivers. Massa has passed his 'sell-by date', has never been the same since his incident. Even before that he was not in the top-flight of drivers. The other driver is a rookie. Therefore I repeat my assertion that they are unlikely to improve on 2016.

[housen]

is a shame hulkenberg signed before all this

would have been great to see him at merc

[thegreenhell]

37chevy said:

thegreenhell said:

They may have to discuss it with him, but that doesn't mean he has any influence in their decision. It could be as simple as them telling him a certain time before the public announcement.

That's entirely different to what realist was saying though....I would think it's common sense to let your current driver know of a new member of staff before it becomes public....

..I'd still love to know how realist knows the inner workings of hamiltons contract

There is a direct quote from Toto in Nigel Roebuck's column in the Feb edition of Motorsport magazine. Toto said "Like all the other employees, he will be told when we've made our final decision."

[tommunster10]

London424 said:

tommunster10 said:

Fair enough, just an opinion, wasn't that long ago Williams were getting a few 2nd places and 3rds, 2014... Not totally beyond silly really. If you have a Merc engine in the back and you just helped Merc out plus Toto is a mentor of Claire...you never know..

Oh and you need to see what Stroll did for his little lamb in the lower formula..... giving Williams £20 mil makes you a big fish...

Edited by tommunster10 on Wednesday 4th January 17:03

So £20 to a charity of choice then?

I'll say this Merc to repeat 2014 and get at least 3rd in WCC.
If not then i'd happily donate £20 to any charity, but i'd favor a charity for helping children.
Go for it!
So long as the Lewis fans haven't had me banned by then...

[rubystone]

tommunster10 said:

Fair enough, just an opinion, wasn't that long ago Williams were getting a few 2nd places and 3rds, 2014... Not totally beyond silly really. If you have a Merc engine in the back and you just helped Merc out plus Toto is a mentor of Claire...you never know..

Oh and you need to see what Stroll did for his little lamb in the lower formula..... giving Williams £20 mil makes you a big fish...

Edited by tommunster10 on Wednesday 4th January 17:03

Williams' driver lineup isn't stellar. Any influence by any of the names rumoured to be going there won't be felt for at least two years. And if you think they have found the 'magic bullet' then why has Symonds gone so quietly?

What charity are you giving that £20 to?

[rubystone]

tommunster10 said:

Fair enough, just an opinion, wasn't that long ago Williams were getting a few 2nd places and 3rds, 2014... Not totally beyond silly really. If you have a Merc engine in the back and you just helped Merc out plus Toto is a mentor of Claire...you never know..

Oh and you need to see what Stroll did for his little lamb in the lower formula..... giving Williams £20 mil makes you a big fish...

Edited by tommunster10 on Wednesday 4th January 17:03

Stroll bought Prema. In that formula that kind of money works. In F1 he'd need to give the team 10 times that amount. To my knowledge he hasn't done that. I'm not even sure whether he is a shareholder in the team.

[rubystone]

tommunster10 said:

I'll say this Merc to repeat 2014 and get at least 3rd in WCC.
If not then i'd happily donate £20 to any charity, but i'd favor a charity for helping children.
Go for it!
So long as the Lewis fans haven't had me banned by then...

You mean Williams? ETA it was for 2nd place wasn't it, not 3rd?

[BoRED S2upid]

tommunster10 said:

I think they have a great chance of proving you wrong, they came 3rd in WCC in 2014 for the most part due to Merc engine. For me its simply thinking about just what the Bottas move has meant for them as a team, just what extra cam Merc F1 give them as part of this special relationship. Its interesting and frankly if they could get a package even half as good as the Merc they are above Ferrari and close to Red Bull regardless of whose in the cars.

A package half as good as Merc gets them above Ferrari? That's a very bold statement.

[thegreenhell]

What is this 'special relationship' between Mercedes and Williams? The current boss of Mercedes is an ex Williams shareholder - what else? At the moment it's complete guesswork at what Williams might be receiving in return for Bottas beyond a sack full of cash. The 2017 cars are now near-as-damnit designed, so they won't suddenly be incorporating a bunch of new Mercedes technology at this late stage, if it were even on the table for them.

[London424]

tommunster10 said:

London424 said:

tommunster10 said:

Fair enough, just an opinion, wasn't that long ago Williams were getting a few 2nd places and 3rds, 2014... Not totally beyond silly really. If you have a Merc engine in the back and you just helped Merc out plus Toto is a mentor of Claire...you never know..

Oh and you need to see what Stroll did for his little lamb in the lower formula..... giving Williams £20 mil makes you a big fish...

Edited by tommunster10 on Wednesday 4th January 17:03

So £20 to a charity of choice then?

I'll say this Merc to repeat 2014 and get at least 3rd in WCC.
If not then i'd happily donate £20 to any charity, but i'd favor a charity for helping children.
Go for it!
So long as the Lewis fans haven't had me banned by then...

I will take that...Williams to finish 4th or lower and you pay £20 to charity. They finish 3rd or higher and i'll pay £20 to charity. Deal?

[tommunster10]

London424 said:

tommunster10 said:

London424 said:

tommunster10 said:

Fair enough, just an opinion, wasn't that long ago Williams were getting a few 2nd places and 3rds, 2014... Not totally beyond silly really. If you have a Merc engine in the back and you just helped Merc out plus Toto is a mentor of Claire...you never know..

Oh and you need to see what Stroll did for his little lamb in the lower formula..... giving Williams £20 mil makes you a big fish...

Edited by tommunster10 on Wednesday 4th January 17:03

So £20 to a charity of choice then?

I'll say this Merc to repeat 2014 and get at least 3rd in WCC.
If not then i'd happily donate £20 to any charity, but i'd favor a charity for helping children.
Go for it!
So long as the Lewis fans haven't had me banned by then...

I will take that...Williams to finish 4th or lower and you pay £20 to charity. They finish 3rd or higher and i'll pay £20 to charity. Deal?

Deal! A bit of fun and a charity will get something regardless (I do donate more and regularly though, but every little bit helps)

[tommunster10]

BoRED S2upid said:

tommunster10 said:

I think they have a great chance of proving you wrong, they came 3rd in WCC in 2014 for the most part due to Merc engine. For me its simply thinking about just what the Bottas move has meant for them as a team, just what extra cam Merc F1 give them as part of this special relationship. Its interesting and frankly if they could get a package even half as good as the Merc they are above Ferrari and close to Red Bull regardless of whose in the cars.

A package half as good as Merc gets them above Ferrari? That's a very bold statement.

It would be a bold statement if i were Martin Brundle talking on record, but i'm not i'm a random person on a car forum speculating about stuff...
The Merc engine counts for a lot, for example Merc with a Honda engine wouldn't of been WDC / WCC...

[thegreenhell]

tommunster10 said:

It would be a bold statement if i were Martin Brundle talking on record, but i'm not i'm a random person on a car forum speculating about stuff...
The Merc engine counts for a lot, for example Merc with a Honda engine wouldn't of been WDC / WCC...

The 2016 Williams had a Mercedes engine. It finished fifth in the WCC, with barely a third of the points total of the third placed Ferrari or second placed Renault-engined Red Bull. The Mercedes-Mercedes had 5.5 times as many points as the Williams-Mercedes. That is a worse performance than the 2014 McLaren-Mercedes which has been so critised for doing so badly with the almighty Mercedes PU. I think Williams need more than just a Mercedes engine to improve their performances in 2017.

[tommunster10]

thegreenhell said:

tommunster10 said:

It would be a bold statement if i were Martin Brundle talking on record, but i'm not i'm a random person on a car forum speculating about stuff...
The Merc engine counts for a lot, for example Merc with a Honda engine wouldn't of been WDC / WCC...

The 2016 Williams had a Mercedes engine. It finished fifth in the WCC, with barely a third of the points total of the third placed Ferrari or second placed Renault-engined Red Bull. The Mercedes-Mercedes had 5.5 times as many points as the Williams-Mercedes. That is a worse performance than the 2014 McLaren-Mercedes which has been so critised for doing so badly with the almighty Mercedes PU. I think Williams need more than just a Mercedes engine to improve their performances in 2017.

Keep up at the back, this is precisely why i'm putting it out there because of the whole Bottas to Merc switch and what if anything Merc will give Williams back, i.e. a customer Merc engine up there with their own for example...
I'm simply saying maybe just maybe Williams will get an injection of pace from somewhere like 2014 that could see them up the sharp end...
Not saying it as a fact, just for fun.
And the 20 million Stroll's Daddy gives Williams is 5 odd mil more than Martini gave them in the first year of that tie up... pretty vast sum that then so i do wonder if Williams will be a possible car to look out for. Stroll's Daddy has made sure his little soldier has the right equipment so far, so no he won't make him WDC with 20 mil but he'll be in a good place at Williams for sure and I speculate Stroll Snr knows something we might not about Williams fortunes.
I could even go as far as to say the Merc engine in the cars isn't always the same as the one in the official Merc...possibly..so if Williams get close to the official engine then who knows what they can achieve...

[HustleRussell]

From the Williams drivers thread

HustleRussell said:

tommunster10 said:

I'd be thinking nows a good time to put some money on Williams being up the sharp end again. Not enough to beat Merc but more like when they first got Merc power and were sometimes just behind the Mercs.
Firstly this deal with Stroll, the money his Dad's invested he'll be wanting the Merc engine with a better mode than the others but not obviously the mode Team Merc get to use...
Also the dealing between Merc and Williams i'd wager Williams get a close engine to Merc but not quite good enough to ever really compete.
I think we could see Massa up front and Stroll being heralded as a star based on this.
And obviously Bottas will suddenly be coming 2nd.
Williams will certainly not be fighling with Force India i'd say they will on par with Red Bull / Ferrari next year due to the Merc engine with a few more bells and whistles than the average but not as many as Merc F1...

Utter piffle in my opinion, for 2017 Formula 1 ceases to be an engine formula and becomes an aero formula once again, Mercedes, Ferrari, Red Bull et al will outspend Williams in the wind tunnel by a factor of several to one. With the lifting of engine development tokens, Mercedes' engine advantage will drastically close. The rich teams have already had a preview of the 2017 tyres. The rich teams have Hamilton, Bottas, Riccardo, Verstappen, Vettel, Raikkonen... Williams risk being eclipsed by McLaren, Torro Rosso, maybe even Renault....

[The Surveyor]

tommunster10 said:

........We know all about Bottas and he is very dull, so much so he makes Nico look like James Hunt.
His first season he will just feel like Jim fixed it for him to be in the best car on the grid, season after that he'll be replaced for a 'star' name driver..

I would say it's a canny move for Bottas as I can't see Lewis Hamilton staying with Mercedes after next season. If Lewis wins his 4th WDC, he'll have nothing more to achieve with Mercedes and Ferrari or Redbull will come after him with an offer he simply can't refuse, if he doesn't win again he'll be off to which ever team does win knowing it's his last chance to get his 4th WDC.

Bottas will become the senior driver for Mercedes and will see out his career behind the 3 pointed star.

[HustleRussell]

As an aside I'm not sure how long we can expect the works Mercedes team to compete, it's common knowledge that they nearly drew the line under it until the hybrid formula was announced- if their current run of form ends I could imagine them pulling the plug.

[The Surveyor]

HustleRussell said:

As an aside I'm not sure how long we can expect the works Mercedes team to compete, it's common knowledge that they nearly drew the line under it until the hybrid formula was announced- if their current run of form ends I could imagine them pulling the plug.

If Mercedes do pull away (big 'if') then the team will just manifest under another banner. The current team Mercedes is just the latest branding for Tyrrell, who became BAR, then BAR Honda, then Brawn, before becoming Mercedes. Maybe they'll be Lauda PETRONAS, or something for 2018?