Slightly different footage of Senna's crash...

[heebeegeetee]

VladD said:

BlimeyCharlie said:

Hill is the only F1 driver (a Williams employee remember?) who seems to think Senna just 'lost' control.

I thought Schumacher was also of the opinion that Senna lost it over the bumps.

And Martin Brundle - or, he thought the car bottomed out.

[VladD]

heebeegeetee said:

VladD said:

BlimeyCharlie said:

Hill is the only F1 driver (a Williams employee remember?) who seems to think Senna just 'lost' control.

I thought Schumacher was also of the opinion that Senna lost it over the bumps.

And Martin Brundle - or, he thought the car bottomed out.

You can see sparks from the car bottoming out from the on board footage from Schumacher's car. The biggest set of sparks coinciding with Senna's car then going straight on. Pure coincidence of course.

[Roofless Toothless]

I've said it before on one of these threads, and I'll say it again. There were two stretches of patched Tarmac on that bend that weren't there the year before. In my book this has to be a factor, even if not the cause, combined with other things perhaps.

I alway felt the keenness of the Italian authorities to pin it all on Williams was a smokescreen to protect any responsibility the circuit owners may have had.

[vonuber]

You can really see how bumpy that corner was from the Hill / Schumacher onboard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qYXVfY_9IE

[Sa Calobra]

Roofless Toothless said:

I've said it before on one of these threads, and I'll say it again. There were two stretches of patched Tarmac on that bend that weren't there the year before. In my book this has to be a factor, even if not the cause, combined with other things perhaps.

I alway felt the keenness of the Italian authorities to pin it all on Williams was a smokescreen to protect any responsibility the circuit owners may have had.

So why was no one else suffering at the same patch? It went straight on, ergo it's a car failure

[VladD]

Sa Calobra said:

So why was no one else suffering at the same patch? It went straight on, ergo it's a car failure

Senna crashed at Monaco and nobody else did in that spot. Was that therefore a car failure?

Differing tyre pressures, lines through the corner and speeds could all be a factor obviously.

[Sa Calobra]

Monaco is a different track in a different country with a different layout at a different time without the same track or weather temperature

[dr_gn]

Sa Calobra said:

Roofless Toothless said:

I've said it before on one of these threads, and I'll say it again. There were two stretches of patched Tarmac on that bend that weren't there the year before. In my book this has to be a factor, even if not the cause, combined with other things perhaps.

I alway felt the keenness of the Italian authorities to pin it all on Williams was a smokescreen to protect any responsibility the circuit owners may have had.

It went straight on, ergo it's a car failure

Any car will "go straight on" in a corner if the front wheels loose grip for a multitude of reasons other than car failure.

[Mark A S]

dr_gn said:

Any car will "go straight on" in a corner if the front wheels loose grip for a multitude of reasons other than car failure.

I can think of only 3 reasons, front wheels are off the ground, aquaplaning, Steering failure. Now, we all know it was not raining, he was able to apply the brakes which knocked off around 60 mph, so front wheels were in contact, And the reason is !
I struggle to see how anyone cannot see it was a steering failure, the car just veered straight off the road, no steering input at all.
The fact the relevant in car video was deleted proves to me that there was a cover up. I understand why there was a cover up, hopefully the truth will be confirmed one day.

[Mr Pointy]

Mark A S said:

The fact the relevant in car video was deleted proves to me that there was a cover up. I understand why there was a cover up, hopefully the truth will be confirmed one day.

Why do you claim the 'relevant in car video' was deleted?

[Mark A S]

Because the in car stops just as his car starts to veer towards the wall, I would say there were a few more seconds before impact. Obviously the impact part should not be made available.

[heebeegeetee]

Mark A S said:

I can think of only 3 reasons, front wheels are off the ground, aquaplaning, Steering failure. Now, we all know it was not raining, he was able to apply the brakes which knocked off around 60 mph, so front wheels were in contact, And the reason is !
I struggle to see how anyone cannot see it was a steering failure, the car just veered straight off the road, no steering input at all.
The fact the relevant in car video was deleted proves to me that there was a cover up. I understand why there was a cover up, hopefully the truth will be confirmed one day.

So basically, Damon Hill doesn't know what he's talking about but you do?

[Mr Pointy]

Mark A S said:

Because the in car stops just as his car starts to veer towards the wall, I would say there were a few more seconds before impact. Obviously the impact part should not be made available.

There is no more recorded video.

[VladD]

Sa Calobra said:

Monaco is a different track in a different country with a different layout at a different time without the same track or weather temperature

I can't see what point you're trying to make. It's only at Imola that drivers's should experience the same problems? Other circuits are somehow exempt for this unique feature?

[VladD]

Mark A S said:

I can think of only 3 reasons, front wheels are off the ground, aquaplaning, Steering failure. Now, we all know it was not raining, he was able to apply the brakes which knocked off around 60 mph, so front wheels were in contact, And the reason is !
I struggle to see how anyone cannot see it was a steering failure, the car just veered straight off the road, no steering input at all.
The fact the relevant in car video was deleted proves to me that there was a cover up. I understand why there was a cover up, hopefully the truth will be confirmed one day.

Imagine you're driving that car and the steering isn't broken, You've tried to catch an oversteer moment caused by a bump and the car has over corrected and is heading for the wall. You jump on the brakes and do what with the steering? What's your thought process here?

[Mark A S]

Been in that situation a few times [ decent motorsports participation history ] most of the time I have caught the car and carried on. Couple of times that I can remember when the car has got away from me, I was still able to use the steering wheel, so at no time did I veer off in a straight line.
I am no Senna when it comes to car control abilities, nor have a driven a high downforce single seater, so yes, I am not in the situation Damon is with his experience. Damon did not however see the accident first hand did he and I can fully understand his views protecting the Williams team, I fully respect that.

I’ll put another scenario to you; just imagine we lived in a world [including 1994] that there was no blame culture. So, Senna’s steering fails leading to his tragic accident. No one is liable financially or legally, then, I am 99.9% certain the final few seconds of in car and admittance of steering failure would be out there.
I agree it’s an emotive subject and I respect other people’s views, I am adamant in this case however that my views are correct. [apologies if that sounds arrogant]

Edited to add, I just watched the in car again, I cannot see any evidence of oversteer .

Edited by Mark A S on Friday 2nd June 12:40

[Mr Pointy]

Mark A S said:

I’ll put another scenario to you; just imagine we lived in a world [including 1994] that there was no blame culture. So, Senna’s steering fails leading to his tragic accident. No one is liable financially or legally, then, I am 99.9% certain the final few seconds of in car and admittance of steering failure would be out there.

I still don't understand why you think there is more video other than you just saying 'there must be because I think so'.

[VladD]

Mark A S said:

I just watched the in car again, I cannot see any evidence of oversteer.

You can see him oversteering clearly in this one. link

Just found this. link I'm not claiming this is fact, just providing a different perspective.

Edited by VladD on Friday 2nd June 13:06

[angrymoby]

you do have to wonder what are people hoping to achieve in their pursuit of the 'truth'?

What? that Senna was a racing god, incapable of mistakes- think we all know that isn't true.

Or that a driver died as a result of a car failure- I think we all know that's happened before too.

Senna's family let this go a loooong time ago, not sure why other's can't

[F1GTRUeno]

angrymoby said:

you do have to wonder what are people hoping to achieve in their pursuit of the 'truth'?

What? that Senna was a racing god, incapable of mistakes- think we all know that isn't true.

Or that a driver died as a result of a car failure- I think we all know that's happened before too.

Senna's family let this go a loooong time ago, not sure why other's can't

Human beings are inquisitive, we can't rest until we know the truth, hence why people are still trying to prove or disprove the existence of God after several millennia.

It's just in our nature and with this, whilst the only certainty is that Senna is no longer with us, we cannot conclusively give an answer as to why so we'll ask until we're all long gone.