Liberty changes relationships and possibly the CEO
Discussion
Liberty are offering shares to F1 teams, totalling 22.5% of the total shares, this at preferential rates.
On top of that, those teams with shares will be notified of changes to the regs and will be consulted, and this includes any changes to the CEO.
A change of attitude to the teams or much needed income?
http://news.sky.com/story/f1-teams-face-ten-year-w...
On top of that, those teams with shares will be notified of changes to the regs and will be consulted, and this includes any changes to the CEO.
A change of attitude to the teams or much needed income?
http://news.sky.com/story/f1-teams-face-ten-year-w...
Edited by Derek Smith on Monday 9th January 19:06
Derek Smith said:
Liberty are offering shares to F1 teams, totalling 22.5% of the total shares, this at preferential rates.
On top of that, those teams with shares will be notified of changes to the regs and will be consulted, and this includes any changes to the CEO.
A change of attitude to the teams or much needed income?
http://news.sky.com/story/f1-teams-face-ten-year-w...
It ties the teams in long term while giving them more of a stake in making good sport rather than winning. On top of that, those teams with shares will be notified of changes to the regs and will be consulted, and this includes any changes to the CEO.
A change of attitude to the teams or much needed income?
http://news.sky.com/story/f1-teams-face-ten-year-w...
Edited by Derek Smith on Monday 9th January 19:06
There's a big meeting this week with Liberty getting the (required?) nod from the FIA on their takeover.
There's little the FIA can do I'm told.
There's been a lot of talk about engines; their affordability in the main. With the now current regs due to run out in three years, the planning will be for 2020 unless Liberty can get the teams to agree on changes. That is unlikely I reckon but you never know I suppose. But we do, don't we.
If, as suggested, Liberty wants 23 races then it might explain the Silverstone stance. Other countries have expressed concern over pricing. I would assume the teams are concerned about 23 races as well. We might know a bit more, but I would reckon that whatever Liberty says will be conditional.
Ten teams now. The sport needs 13, possibly more, so their first act should be to encourage more teams into the sport. That's not easy. I wonder if they will drop the charges. No one seems to be rushing forwards to buy Manor and get an easy in. Wouldn't it be nice to have pre-qualifying. Wouldn't it be even better to have a new team be able to threaten the leading cabal withing a couple of season.
Cutting costs for teams is an essential. Maybe limiting the number of mechanics in each pit, or team members at the event, a reduction in aero? How about a standard and rather cheap engine, with no limits on number used. Standard aero? That's about as likely as road tyres or only rear wheel brakes. Mind you, if we want overtaking . . .
Will Liberty makes some demands of the FIA and teams, given a nearly 10% reduction in teams? They might be sweating a bit about losing another one, perhaps even two.
There's little the FIA can do I'm told.
There's been a lot of talk about engines; their affordability in the main. With the now current regs due to run out in three years, the planning will be for 2020 unless Liberty can get the teams to agree on changes. That is unlikely I reckon but you never know I suppose. But we do, don't we.
If, as suggested, Liberty wants 23 races then it might explain the Silverstone stance. Other countries have expressed concern over pricing. I would assume the teams are concerned about 23 races as well. We might know a bit more, but I would reckon that whatever Liberty says will be conditional.
Ten teams now. The sport needs 13, possibly more, so their first act should be to encourage more teams into the sport. That's not easy. I wonder if they will drop the charges. No one seems to be rushing forwards to buy Manor and get an easy in. Wouldn't it be nice to have pre-qualifying. Wouldn't it be even better to have a new team be able to threaten the leading cabal withing a couple of season.
Cutting costs for teams is an essential. Maybe limiting the number of mechanics in each pit, or team members at the event, a reduction in aero? How about a standard and rather cheap engine, with no limits on number used. Standard aero? That's about as likely as road tyres or only rear wheel brakes. Mind you, if we want overtaking . . .
Will Liberty makes some demands of the FIA and teams, given a nearly 10% reduction in teams? They might be sweating a bit about losing another one, perhaps even two.
The worm may be turning Derek. If I was Silverstone I'd be hedging my bets on playing the strong arm tactic and you can bet if Silverstone are thinking it, Monza, Spa, Nürburgring, Hockenheim and Hungary are thinking the same. That's before you mention Suzuka, COTA and Sao Paulo....
If Liberty are intent on revolutionising the way the sport is run they will have to accept a new levelled playing field to enable that new regime to thrive.
We could just possibly be on the threshold of a new era of expansion for the sport if Liberty are wanting to take the risk. The ground is already set for them, the previous regime has been milking the existing clientele base for every single £$€ they could cough up. Now could be an exciting period of free content in order to widen that clientele to unseen levels.
As a business proposition it must be incredibly exciting, should the sport's reach be widened the eventual spoils would be mind boggling.
If Liberty are intent on revolutionising the way the sport is run they will have to accept a new levelled playing field to enable that new regime to thrive.
We could just possibly be on the threshold of a new era of expansion for the sport if Liberty are wanting to take the risk. The ground is already set for them, the previous regime has been milking the existing clientele base for every single £$€ they could cough up. Now could be an exciting period of free content in order to widen that clientele to unseen levels.
As a business proposition it must be incredibly exciting, should the sport's reach be widened the eventual spoils would be mind boggling.
The FIA have nodded through the sale of the commercial rights and Delta Topco to Liberty. Completion is expected in a couple of months.
One would assume that other decisions were made with regards the way F1 is to be run, but no press release has been forthcoming.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/
We await developments.
Edited to add:
There's an enigmatic mention of the 3-year deal with Ecclestone, specifically as to whether it will run full term.
One would assume that other decisions were made with regards the way F1 is to be run, but no press release has been forthcoming.
https://joesaward.wordpress.com/
We await developments.
Edited to add:
There's an enigmatic mention of the 3-year deal with Ecclestone, specifically as to whether it will run full term.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
The worm may be turning Derek. If I was Silverstone I'd be hedging my bets on playing the strong arm tactic and you can bet if Silverstone are thinking it, Monza, Spa, Nürburgring, Hockenheim and Hungary are thinking the same. That's before you mention Suzuka, COTA and Sao Paulo....
If Liberty are intent on revolutionising the way the sport is run they will have to accept a new levelled playing field to enable that new regime to thrive.
We could just possibly be on the threshold of a new era of expansion for the sport if Liberty are wanting to take the risk. The ground is already set for them, the previous regime has been milking the existing clientele base for every single £$€ they could cough up. Now could be an exciting period of free content in order to widen that clientele to unseen levels.
As a business proposition it must be incredibly exciting, should the sport's reach be widened the eventual spoils would be mind boggling.
This is, I think, the best hope for F1.If Liberty are intent on revolutionising the way the sport is run they will have to accept a new levelled playing field to enable that new regime to thrive.
We could just possibly be on the threshold of a new era of expansion for the sport if Liberty are wanting to take the risk. The ground is already set for them, the previous regime has been milking the existing clientele base for every single £$€ they could cough up. Now could be an exciting period of free content in order to widen that clientele to unseen levels.
As a business proposition it must be incredibly exciting, should the sport's reach be widened the eventual spoils would be mind boggling.
I think the last few seasons have been tremendously exciting, from 2007 onwards it's given lots of talking points. There's been a number of tight finishes for the WDC - last race, last lap, last corner, nothing penultimate about that one - and some exciting duels. Yet its popularity doesn't reflect this. We have rule changes this season in order to give other teams, those without money, a chance to compete on aero; fat chance of that.
Let's hope Liberty will take a long term view. And let's hope your 'could just possibly' will happen.
Derek Smith said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
The worm may be turning Derek. If I was Silverstone I'd be hedging my bets on playing the strong arm tactic and you can bet if Silverstone are thinking it, Monza, Spa, Nürburgring, Hockenheim and Hungary are thinking the same. That's before you mention Suzuka, COTA and Sao Paulo....
If Liberty are intent on revolutionising the way the sport is run they will have to accept a new levelled playing field to enable that new regime to thrive.
We could just possibly be on the threshold of a new era of expansion for the sport if Liberty are wanting to take the risk. The ground is already set for them, the previous regime has been milking the existing clientele base for every single £$€ they could cough up. Now could be an exciting period of free content in order to widen that clientele to unseen levels.
As a business proposition it must be incredibly exciting, should the sport's reach be widened the eventual spoils would be mind boggling.
This is, I think, the best hope for F1.If Liberty are intent on revolutionising the way the sport is run they will have to accept a new levelled playing field to enable that new regime to thrive.
We could just possibly be on the threshold of a new era of expansion for the sport if Liberty are wanting to take the risk. The ground is already set for them, the previous regime has been milking the existing clientele base for every single £$€ they could cough up. Now could be an exciting period of free content in order to widen that clientele to unseen levels.
As a business proposition it must be incredibly exciting, should the sport's reach be widened the eventual spoils would be mind boggling.
I think the last few seasons have been tremendously exciting, from 2007 onwards it's given lots of talking points. There's been a number of tight finishes for the WDC - last race, last lap, last corner, nothing penultimate about that one - and some exciting duels. Yet its popularity doesn't reflect this. We have rule changes this season in order to give other teams, those without money, a chance to compete on aero; fat chance of that.
Let's hope Liberty will take a long term view. And let's hope your 'could just possibly' will happen.
As a business you'd have to say it has been too, it has made the venture capitalists a huge amount of money it's just that the two sides of F1 have seemed to have succeeded in spite of each other, not because of.
The hugely interesting thing for Liberty Media is how they decide to go abut their goal of growing the sport. They want more races to presumably increase TV viewing figures so they you would imagine need three things;
1/ more tracks to hold races
2/ more people to watch them
3/ the teams to be able to afford to run those races.
I can't really think of it as any simpler than that unless I'm totally missing the gist of it. So what would solve the above list?
1/ charge the circuits less to hold races
2/ revert to free to air races (at least in the short term)
3/ offer more financial support to the teams
1 and 3 are relatively simple to implement, I'd like to see some diversification between the events, perhaps bestowing some "historic" status on certain circuits where they get generous breaks financially but maybe even some other benefits that elevate them above the other less established circuits.
2 is infinitely more tricky, you'd have to imagine that they won't want give up the pay per view cash cow but without free to air, how do you expand your viewing figures? A two tear calendar with the historic circuits given a basic show for free? That sounds like the failing half arsed measure we've got now.
Personally I think they need to produce a really slick show that people will actually want to pay for (as I do now), with a hugely improved on line side to coverage, extra content etc.
But what do I know....
LaurasOtherHalf said:
People seem to forget that in the last ten years there have probably only been three seasons where the WDC was a walkover and even in those there has been inter team rivalries that have kept things spicy. F1 has as a sport been incredibly healthy.
[some good ideas and comment]
Personally I think they need to produce a really slick show that people will actually want to pay for (as I do now), with a hugely improved on line side to coverage, extra content etc.
But what do I know....
I had a meal with a mate who is a complete and utter F1 nerd. We were talking about the Lotus 72 and I mentioned that it had been driven in F1 races by 18 drivers according to a book I read. He got all 18. So a nerd. I tried, and got a bit of a bonus by inventing a driver, Miles (when I meant Miller)but I stopped at the normal suspects.[some good ideas and comment]
Personally I think they need to produce a really slick show that people will actually want to pay for (as I do now), with a hugely improved on line side to coverage, extra content etc.
But what do I know....
We both reckoned that the last 10 years, as you say, have been exciting on the circuit. With invisible Todt in control we've had none of the dreadful political disasters seemingly orchestrated by the previous incumbent. Yet in this country, despite a British driver winning races most years, even in the 2011 McLaren, the popularity of the sport appears to be on the wane.
I can't understand it.
What makes something interesting and exciting? It's a very fundamental point. It's now obvious that "track action" on its own is obviously not the main thing at all. Maybe we were wrong to assume that was the main thing that kept the fans interested.
I think all sorts of other factors come into play -
identification with the protagonists
actual LIKING of the protagonists
relevance
a sense and appreciation that they are doing something that none of us could do
the fact that they are putting their necks on the line
a sense of wonder with the technology
visceral impact of the technology
interesting locations
And maybe having so many races now lessens the uniqueness of each event. People tend to get more excited about rare things and events rather than common ones.
I think current F1 scores low on a lot of those points.
I think all sorts of other factors come into play -
identification with the protagonists
actual LIKING of the protagonists
relevance
a sense and appreciation that they are doing something that none of us could do
the fact that they are putting their necks on the line
a sense of wonder with the technology
visceral impact of the technology
interesting locations
And maybe having so many races now lessens the uniqueness of each event. People tend to get more excited about rare things and events rather than common ones.
I think current F1 scores low on a lot of those points.
It's not helping when the drivers get out of the cars after a Sunday drive in the country, not a bead of sweat on them (unless in some hellhole tropical environment).
It makes it look like anyone could do that job, they are not racing, they are managing.
Hopefully the changes made for 2017 see's them getting out of the cars knackered after a hard race where they could push the cars and actually race.
It makes it look like anyone could do that job, they are not racing, they are managing.
Hopefully the changes made for 2017 see's them getting out of the cars knackered after a hard race where they could push the cars and actually race.
jsf said:
It's not helping when the drivers get out of the cars after a Sunday drive in the country, not a bead of sweat on them (unless in some hellhole tropical environment).
It makes it look like anyone could do that job, they are not racing, they are managing.
Hopefully the changes made for 2017 see's them getting out of the cars knackered after a hard race where they could push the cars and actually race.
I don't think that will happen until they cut down on the aero. It appears that 2017 cars will be slower on the straights and much faster around the bends. So where is the overtaking going to happen?It makes it look like anyone could do that job, they are not racing, they are managing.
Hopefully the changes made for 2017 see's them getting out of the cars knackered after a hard race where they could push the cars and actually race.
I'm looking forward to the online racing, in real time, during the grand prix (James Allen mentioned it some months back). That could be awesome.
I don't get the feeling that we're ever going to go back to free-to-air - there's talk of exploitation of commercial rights in that sky news article. But perhaps liberty media might go easier on the circuits if they can claw the money they don't charge the circuits from the CR's they sell.
I do think that F1 is going to go from strength to strength - I don't see Bernie being around by June this year either. Might be wrong on that but there's a definite 'wind of change' (what a song that wasn't, by the Scorpions if I remember rightly - that probably ages me somewhat).
I actually bought some shares in liberty media in september last year (£1k's worth - not exactly Gordon Gekko-esque) directly on the back of the fact that I think F1 is where it's at over the long term.
If they can just work out what f1 is - that'd be a big help. By that I mean - does f1 want to be at the cutting edge of technology or does it just want to be another franchise sport - they've got to be careful - Formula E is grabbing headlines. They should shout a hell of a lot louder about what f1 has done and is doing for reducing emissions (50% thermal efficiency in the engines is incredible for example), the work they are doing with fuel, injectors, turbos, engine architecture, the energy recovery and deployment - the list goes on. They should be telling people that what F1 is doing has direct future impacts on so many different facets of people's lives. All in my view of course!
I don't get the feeling that we're ever going to go back to free-to-air - there's talk of exploitation of commercial rights in that sky news article. But perhaps liberty media might go easier on the circuits if they can claw the money they don't charge the circuits from the CR's they sell.
I do think that F1 is going to go from strength to strength - I don't see Bernie being around by June this year either. Might be wrong on that but there's a definite 'wind of change' (what a song that wasn't, by the Scorpions if I remember rightly - that probably ages me somewhat).
I actually bought some shares in liberty media in september last year (£1k's worth - not exactly Gordon Gekko-esque) directly on the back of the fact that I think F1 is where it's at over the long term.
If they can just work out what f1 is - that'd be a big help. By that I mean - does f1 want to be at the cutting edge of technology or does it just want to be another franchise sport - they've got to be careful - Formula E is grabbing headlines. They should shout a hell of a lot louder about what f1 has done and is doing for reducing emissions (50% thermal efficiency in the engines is incredible for example), the work they are doing with fuel, injectors, turbos, engine architecture, the energy recovery and deployment - the list goes on. They should be telling people that what F1 is doing has direct future impacts on so many different facets of people's lives. All in my view of course!
KevinCamaroSS said:
I don't think that will happen until they cut down on the aero. It appears that 2017 cars will be slower on the straights and much faster around the bends. So where is the overtaking going to happen?
That is more to do with modern approaches to fitness and training and affects all professional sports. Historically, what few drivers applied any fitness to regimes did so to build strength rather than endurance. Many smoked and I'm sure a few raced with all manner of exotic compounds in their systems. We are just getting better at fitness.The same applies to athletics and football.
Derek Smith said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
People seem to forget that in the last ten years there have probably only been three seasons where the WDC was a walkover and even in those there has been inter team rivalries that have kept things spicy. F1 has as a sport been incredibly healthy.
[some good ideas and comment]
Personally I think they need to produce a really slick show that people will actually want to pay for (as I do now), with a hugely improved on line side to coverage, extra content etc.
But what do I know....
I had a meal with a mate who is a complete and utter F1 nerd. We were talking about the Lotus 72 and I mentioned that it had been driven in F1 races by 18 drivers according to a book I read. He got all 18. So a nerd. I tried, and got a bit of a bonus by inventing a driver, Miles (when I meant Miller)but I stopped at the normal suspects.[some good ideas and comment]
Personally I think they need to produce a really slick show that people will actually want to pay for (as I do now), with a hugely improved on line side to coverage, extra content etc.
But what do I know....
We both reckoned that the last 10 years, as you say, have been exciting on the circuit. With invisible Todt in control we've had none of the dreadful political disasters seemingly orchestrated by the previous incumbent. Yet in this country, despite a British driver winning races most years, even in the 2011 McLaren, the popularity of the sport appears to be on the wane.
I can't understand it.
F1 (and motorsport in general) is becoming increasing irrelevant to the younger generations that would be the fanbase of the future.
30+ years ago, on a Monday at work after every F1 race, I can say that it would be a major topic of conversation among a lot of people, even non-petrolhead people, across all age groups.
Now, if on the ultra rare occasion that anyone does mention F1 (and I'm struggling to remember such an occasion in the past say, 5-6 years) it's usually only among those in the 50+ age range.
F1 still makes headline news, just look at the mainstream coverage of Rosberg retiring, it was on every news station and in every paper. It is still one of the global major sports.
Gaming wise, driving games still populate the worlds top 10 lists. Killing things seems most popular, but driving games are still an important sector of the market.
Gaming wise, driving games still populate the worlds top 10 lists. Killing things seems most popular, but driving games are still an important sector of the market.
One thing which doesn't help:
I used to run F1 fanzine websites. A bit nerdish I know but good fun. All the news before it happens was the strapline but this wasn't sufficient to show that much was made up. I would put up fake interviews, have drivers tell me they were upset, or get into disagreements with team owners - when I complained that the floor moved on the Ferrari motor home I was kidnapped and held hostage, but they had to pay my wife to take me back. So childish, but there would be 500 words of comment each race.
I had a telephone interview with Ron Dennis who couldn't remember who Coulthard was and when I admitted he was Scandinavian, he didn't care. Yet I would get the occasional email to ask if what I'd written was true. I had quite a few people whom I used to correspond with once the websites stopped. I still have two and we text/email during races on occasion.
Once I started getting a bit popular, normally when over 750 unique visitors the day after each race - one season, at least second half, I topped 900 - I would get threatening emails telling me not to use F1 or Formula 1 in the URL.
I didn't believe it at first and contacted another fanzine publisher and was told that she had experienced the same problem. It seems a lawyer, or probably clerk or intern, had the job of trawling the internet to write threatening letters.
It's their registered name so they can do what they want, but why try and stop nerd enjoying the sport? I thought I would be pushing their product, although not my primary motive.
I used to run F1 fanzine websites. A bit nerdish I know but good fun. All the news before it happens was the strapline but this wasn't sufficient to show that much was made up. I would put up fake interviews, have drivers tell me they were upset, or get into disagreements with team owners - when I complained that the floor moved on the Ferrari motor home I was kidnapped and held hostage, but they had to pay my wife to take me back. So childish, but there would be 500 words of comment each race.
I had a telephone interview with Ron Dennis who couldn't remember who Coulthard was and when I admitted he was Scandinavian, he didn't care. Yet I would get the occasional email to ask if what I'd written was true. I had quite a few people whom I used to correspond with once the websites stopped. I still have two and we text/email during races on occasion.
Once I started getting a bit popular, normally when over 750 unique visitors the day after each race - one season, at least second half, I topped 900 - I would get threatening emails telling me not to use F1 or Formula 1 in the URL.
I didn't believe it at first and contacted another fanzine publisher and was told that she had experienced the same problem. It seems a lawyer, or probably clerk or intern, had the job of trawling the internet to write threatening letters.
It's their registered name so they can do what they want, but why try and stop nerd enjoying the sport? I thought I would be pushing their product, although not my primary motive.
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