90's F1 cars - Where are they?
Discussion
F1GTRUeno said:
Andrea Moda
Worth reading Perry McCarthy's book Flat Out Flat Broke. If ever a team didn't deserve to be in F1, they were it and make Manor look like Mercedes. Sending him out to qualify on wet tyres on a bone dry track and a knowingly waving him off for qualifying at Spa with a bent steering arm are just a few of the gems!I'm often surprised at the relative cheapness of many old F1 cars. Only those with decent provenience seem to attract high values. But for the most part, all you'd be buying is an ornament. There's many a themed sports bars around the world with Leyton Houses and Onyxs and and the like hanging from the walls!
I remember seeing one bloke turn up a Brands for a Historic F1 race with a Williams FW06 on trailer being towed by a Scorpio estate. Everything he needed to run the car for the day was in a box of bits in the boot.
To run an FW14 you'd need an artic for the mainframe computer just to fire the thing up!
Historic F1 thrives as a race series. EuroBoss which ran later F1 cars has sort of fizzled out because the ability to maintain and run the cars became hideously expensive. I believe there were plans to de-engineer more recent cars to make them more manageable to the amateur racer but have heard nothing about this for a while.
The other issue - I think I'm right in saying - is that early carbon fibre had a shelf life. After a few years, the resin became brittle to the point that it would be unable to support the loads needed for racing, hence the more recent historic F1 cars tend to be limited to demo runs.
Cost and value are very different things. It's a funny old world when the unusable race suit of a so so actor and competent racer (at best ) are worth more than , say , a Toleman T185 F1 car with provenance is for sale at less than £200k .The overalls belonging to Steve McQueen (for it is he) went for $984,000 . Is crazy....
The OP may find the October issue of Motor Sport worth reading as it features a couple of pages on restoring a Jordan Peugeot F1 car. The mag may not yet be in the shops as my subscriber copy only arrived yesterday.
The OP may find the October issue of Motor Sport worth reading as it features a couple of pages on restoring a Jordan Peugeot F1 car. The mag may not yet be in the shops as my subscriber copy only arrived yesterday.
I recently learned of Andrea Moda from the Reddit F1 thread. Really interesting story.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/6sh8tc/...
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/6sh8tc/...
StevieBee said:
The other issue - I think I'm right in saying - is that early carbon fibre had a shelf life. After a few years, the resin became brittle to the point that it would be unable to support the loads needed for racing, hence the more recent historic F1 cars tend to be limited to demo runs.
That's not correct, there are cars running in Masters historic F1 with carbon tubs or partial carbon tubs.StevieBee said:
To run an FW14 you'd need an artic for the mainframe computer just to fire the thing up!
Last time I just used a laptop..... The same X201 Thinkpad I use to fire a lot of them up 
StevieBee said:
Historic F1 thrives as a race series. EuroBoss which ran later F1 cars has sort of fizzled out because the ability to maintain and run the cars became hideously expensive. I believe there were plans to de-engineer more recent cars to make them more manageable to the amateur racer but have heard nothing about this for a while.
BOSS is still going strong with modern era STR, Jaguar, Williams, Minardi, Jordan etc. all racing in it. Our stuff is pretty much 100% as it was in the day with all the good stuff like hydraulics, original electronics etc. in place and working.StevieBee said:
The other issue - I think I'm right in saying - is that early carbon fibre had a shelf life. After a few years, the resin became brittle to the point that it would be unable to support the loads needed for racing, hence the more recent historic F1 cars tend to be limited to demo runs.
No there are still a lot of very early carbon cars racing without issue. Even back then the adhesive technology was very well understood!poppopbangbang said:
StevieBee said:
To run an FW14 you'd need an artic for the mainframe computer just to fire the thing up!
Last time I just used a laptop..... The same X201 Thinkpad I use to fire a lot of them up StevieBee said:
Historic F1 thrives as a race series. EuroBoss which ran later F1 cars has sort of fizzled out because the ability to maintain and run the cars became hideously expensive. I believe there were plans to de-engineer more recent cars to make them more manageable to the amateur racer but have heard nothing about this for a while.
BOSS is still going strong with modern era STR, Jaguar, Williams, Minardi, Jordan etc. all racing in it. Our stuff is pretty much 100% as it was in the day with all the good stuff like hydraulics, original electronics etc. in place and working.StevieBee said:
The other issue - I think I'm right in saying - is that early carbon fibre had a shelf life. After a few years, the resin became brittle to the point that it would be unable to support the loads needed for racing, hence the more recent historic F1 cars tend to be limited to demo runs.
No there are still a lot of very early carbon cars racing without issue. Even back then the adhesive technology was very well understood!
- though I was just being over dramatic with the mainframe thing 
poppopbangbang said:
No there are still a lot of very early carbon cars racing without issue. Even back then the adhesive technology was very well understood!
Its the early aluminium tubs that show issues with adhesive properties, when you strip them the adhesive has lost all its bonding properties and the panel pulls off clean with the old adhesive cracking. You can add a lot of stiffness to an old aluminium tub without changing any panels, just re-bond with modern adhesives and re-solid rivet them.jsf said:
Its the early aluminium tubs that show issues with adhesive properties, when you strip them the adhesive has lost all its bonding properties and the panel pulls off clean with the old adhesive cracking. You can add a lot of stiffness to an old aluminium tub without changing any panels, just re-bond with modern adhesives and re-solid rivet them.
Absolutely! We did a Ralt a while back that was pretty scary when you looked at how little of it was still glued together and how much the rivet holes had fretted. Never good when you can wiggle every other rivet in a panel joint!poppopbangbang said:
jsf said:
Its the early aluminium tubs that show issues with adhesive properties, when you strip them the adhesive has lost all its bonding properties and the panel pulls off clean with the old adhesive cracking. You can add a lot of stiffness to an old aluminium tub without changing any panels, just re-bond with modern adhesives and re-solid rivet them.
Absolutely! We did a Ralt a while back that was pretty scary when you looked at how little of it was still glued together and how much the rivet holes had fretted. Never good when you can wiggle every other rivet in a panel joint!coppice said:
The OP may find the October issue of Motor Sport worth reading as it features a couple of pages on restoring a Jordan Peugeot F1 car. The mag may not yet be in the shops as my subscriber copy only arrived yesterday.
Did the article mention the name of the company performing the work? 
Figured I'd give this a bump.
Started a spreadsheet to try and track them. Very early days indeed but still.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eILDgPJZnL...
I think it's available to edit publicly but I could be wrong.
Any help filling it out would be appreciated. 1994 is a WIP example of what I'd like it to look like.
Cheers!
Started a spreadsheet to try and track them. Very early days indeed but still.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eILDgPJZnL...
I think it's available to edit publicly but I could be wrong.
Any help filling it out would be appreciated. 1994 is a WIP example of what I'd like it to look like.
Cheers!
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