Honda - another disaster ?

[KevinCamaroSS]

Spot on lee, why on earth would FI change from the best engine to the worst, with all the loss of earnings that would involve? The incentives would have to be massive, such as a world class driver, free engines and both drivers salaries paid as a starter.

[fomb]

KevinCamaroSS said:

Spot on lee, why on earth would FI change from the best engine to the worst, with all the loss of earnings that would involve? The incentives would have to be massive, such as a world class driver, free engines and both drivers salaries paid as a starter.

Amusingly enough, this is pretty much what Honda give McLaren. They don't pay for engines, the get given around 70m/yr from Honda, and they also managed to attract Alonso on a three year deal.

[HustleRussell]

Vaud said:

If you are Sauber and have to pay for an engine, if Honda are committed and have a year to get the engine more competitive...

Sauber are currently the poor relations, the only team on the grid not using a current generation engine... I am not expecting miracles from Honda this season but producing performance similar to Ferrari's 2016 unit by the end of 2017 must be realistic? Competitive with Ferrari price or cheaper? Enhanced in-house PU team and support to sweeten the deal?

[Wh00sher]

I`m really struggling with the Honda statement of "we`ll have a new engine ready in a few months"

They had all last year to get this one so badly wrong, what makes anyone think a replacement built in a shorter timeframe under pressure from Mclaren will be any better

[HustleRussell]

Wh00sher said:

I`m really struggling with the Honda statement of "we`ll have a new engine ready in a few months"

They had all last year to get this one so badly wrong, what makes anyone think a replacement built in a shorter timeframe under pressure from Mclaren will be any better

There will be no 'new' Honda engine, but they are hoping to have a revised and updated PU put together in time for the first PU change of the season. McLaren Honda are, rather optimistically, hoping that Alonso and Vandoorne's first PUs of the season will last until around Monaco. Given 4 PUs per driver, Monaco is around the time many will be looking to take their second.

[Norfolkit]

HustleRussell said:

There will be no 'new' Honda engine, but they are hoping to have a revised and updated PU put together in time for the first PU change of the season. McLaren Honda are, rather optimistically, hoping that Alonso and Vandoorne's first PUs of the season will last until around Monaco. Given 4 PUs per driver, Monaco is around the time many will be looking to take their second.

Christian Horner said on Saturday (or Sunday, either way before Danny Ric's troubles) that they'll probably need 5 engines this year.

[revrange]

Wh00sher said:

I`m really struggling with the Honda statement of "we`ll have a new engine ready in a few months"

They had all last year to get this one so badly wrong, what makes anyone think a replacement built in a shorter timeframe under pressure from Mclaren will be any better

I am as well, they were saying this current engine was great as well, but its a dog. Clearly there is a gap between reality and what they see on the dyno

[KevinCamaroSS]

fomb said:

KevinCamaroSS said:

Spot on lee, why on earth would FI change from the best engine to the worst, with all the loss of earnings that would involve? The incentives would have to be massive, such as a world class driver, free engines and both drivers salaries paid as a starter.

Amusingly enough, this is pretty much what Honda give McLaren. They don't pay for engines, the get given around 70m/yr from Honda, and they also managed to attract Alonso on a three year deal.

Indeed it is, and that may not be enough to keep them.

[HustleRussell]

Norfolkit said:

Christian Horner said on Saturday (or Sunday, either way before Danny Ric's troubles) that they'll probably need 5 engines this year.

Tag/Renault or Honda?

I am anticipating crippling and persistent grid penalties for several drivers towards the end of the season, the new rules cut the available parts by 20% at a stroke while removing the 'penalty stacking' loophole.

[anonymous-user]

revrange said:

Wh00sher said:

I`m really struggling with the Honda statement of "we`ll have a new engine ready in a few months"

They had all last year to get this one so badly wrong, what makes anyone think a replacement built in a shorter timeframe under pressure from Mclaren will be any better

I am as well, they were saying this current engine was great as well, but its a dog. Clearly there is a gap between reality and what they see on the dyno

I wonder if this is more a redesign to overcome the vibration issues. That MIGHT be something more achievable ASSUMING they know the reason.

Lots of assumptions though

[thegreenhell]

Now this should make interesting viewing:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/amazo...

"McLaren's 2017 Formula 1 season will be shown warts-and-all on Amazon Prime as part of an 'Amazon Prime Original Unscripted Series'."

[Norfolkit]

HustleRussell said:

Norfolkit said:

Christian Horner said on Saturday (or Sunday, either way before Danny Ric's troubles) that they'll probably need 5 engines this year.

Tag/Renault or Honda?

I am anticipating crippling and persistent grid penalties for several drivers towards the end of the season, the new rules cut the available parts by 20% at a stroke while removing the 'penalty stacking' loophole.

I assumed he was talking specifically about Red Bull.

[lee_fr200]

I read that it's the way the crank and camshaft work causing the vibrations!

The new engine in Monaco should change all that and hen allow them to turn the power back up apparently

[anonymous-user]

lee_fr200 said:

I read that it's the way the crank and camshaft work causing the vibrations!

The new engine in Monaco should change all that and hen allow them to turn the power back up apparently

We can but hope!

[M3ax]

thegreenhell said:

Now this should make interesting viewing:

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/amazo...

"McLaren's 2017 Formula 1 season will be shown warts-and-all on Amazon Prime as part of an 'Amazon Prime Original Unscripted Series'."

I shall be watching with interest. I wonder how many "warts s" will be shown.

[slipstream 1985]

lee_fr200 said:

I read that it's the way the crank and camshaft work causing the vibrations!

The new engine in Monaco should change all that and hen allow them to turn the power back up apparently

JUst in time for a track when power doesn't really matter....

[M3ax]

Maybe they're talking to Audi.

[StevieBee]

M3ax said:

Maybe they're talking to Audi.

Audi's absence from F1 is odd (IMO). They made a pretty good fist of WEC; arguably as challenging technically as F1 as well as DTM and have a plethora of brands to 'hide' behind until they get up to competitive speed. Start with Skoda until they get to the front of the grid at which point they'd run under the Audi banner and go head to head with Mercedes.

[thegreenhell]

There is a rumour that Audi will attend the next FIA engine meeting to discuss future power units beyond the current regs. There's no chance that they'll be joining F1 before that next cycle, unless they already have an engine secretly being tested already, which is unlikely.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns36063.html

[budgie smuggler]

HustleRussell said:

Norfolkit said:

Christian Horner said on Saturday (or Sunday, either way before Danny Ric's troubles) that they'll probably need 5 engines this year.

Tag/Renault or Honda?

I am anticipating crippling and persistent grid penalties for several drivers towards the end of the season, the new rules cut the available parts by 20% at a stroke while removing the 'penalty stacking' loophole.

I don't understand the purpose behind these rules. Surely it can't be cost as the manufacturing must be buttons compared to the R&D..? It just seems like again, if your engine is poor at the start of the season, you're still gonna be fked at the end of the season.