Honda - another disaster ?
Discussion
Stefano Domenicali who used to work for Ferrari and who now works for Lamborghini is attending a meeting on behalf of vw at the engine providers meeting in regards to 2021 at the next regulation change! That's what I've read this morning but surely we're a long way off that so to me it's a cover story I think lambo (vw/Audi) might want to take on Ferrari in the next couple of yrs
lee_fr200 said:
Stefano Domenicali who used to work for Ferrari and who now works for Lamborghini is attending a meeting on behalf of vw at the engine providers meeting in regards to 2021 at the next regulation change! That's what I've read this morning but surely we're a long way off that so to me it's a cover story I think lambo (vw/Audi) might want to take on Ferrari in the next couple of yrs
No chance. VW group are skint after the emissions scandal and won't be throwing hundreds of millions of Euro at an engine/powertrain that looks likely to be scrapped when the next cycle happens to the regulations.
http://www.planetf1.com/news/vw-to-attend-f1-engin...
just going on what I've read there, make of it what you will
just going on what I've read there, make of it what you will
jsf said:
No chance.
VW group are skint after the emissions scandal and won't be throwing hundreds of millions of Euro at an engine/powertrain that looks likely to be scrapped when the next cycle happens to the regulations.
That's the point though - they'd be looking to enter after the regs change so need to be aware as early as possible what the revised regs will beVW group are skint after the emissions scandal and won't be throwing hundreds of millions of Euro at an engine/powertrain that looks likely to be scrapped when the next cycle happens to the regulations.
MartG said:
jsf said:
No chance.
VW group are skint after the emissions scandal and won't be throwing hundreds of millions of Euro at an engine/powertrain that looks likely to be scrapped when the next cycle happens to the regulations.
That's the point though - they'd be looking to enter after the regs change so need to be aware as early as possible what the revised regs will beVW group are skint after the emissions scandal and won't be throwing hundreds of millions of Euro at an engine/powertrain that looks likely to be scrapped when the next cycle happens to the regulations.
They would stupid not to attend to see what's going on for the next set of regs.
Doesn't mean they will like what they see, or do anything about it.
HustleRussell said:
Vaud said:
If you are Sauber and have to pay for an engine, if Honda are committed and have a year to get the engine more competitive...
Sauber are currently the poor relations, the only team on the grid not using a current generation engine... I am not expecting miracles from Honda this season but producing performance similar to Ferrari's 2016 unit by the end of 2017 must be realistic? Competitive with Ferrari price or cheaper? Enhanced in-house PU team and support to sweeten the deal? Going to the meetings enables them to start some feasibility studies and R&D as soon as a general consensus on the direction of any engine formula is clear. I understand that this is what Mercedes did and had several streams of R&D running based on the early discussions so by the time the regulations were finalised they were already ahead of the rest having tried and discarded several ideas.
HustleRussell said:
HustleRussell said:
Vaud said:
If you are Sauber and have to pay for an engine, if Honda are committed and have a year to get the engine more competitive...
Sauber are currently the poor relations, the only team on the grid not using a current generation engine... I am not expecting miracles from Honda this season but producing performance similar to Ferrari's 2016 unit by the end of 2017 must be realistic? Competitive with Ferrari price or cheaper? Enhanced in-house PU team and support to sweeten the deal? aeropilot said:
Exactly.
They would stupid not to attend to see what's going on for the next set of regs.
Doesn't mean they will like what they see, or do anything about it.
Indeed. They just need to justify a day out of the office for Stefano, and maybe reimburse him for a sandwich and a packet of crisps on the train home. They would stupid not to attend to see what's going on for the next set of regs.
Doesn't mean they will like what they see, or do anything about it.
mycool said:
Going to the meetings enables them to start some feasibility studies and R&D as soon as a general consensus on the direction of any engine formula is clear. I understand that this is what Mercedes did and had several streams of R&D running based on the early discussions so by the time the regulations were finalised they were already ahead of the rest having tried and discarded several ideas.
VAG are going to have to do some serious investing in brand image rebuilding in the coming years in the wake of 'dieselgate' especially in North America, so an F1 engine programme promoting petrol-hybrid tech could well be one way of doing this, and if they do, they could well do it by splitting the brands - works engine programme using the Audi badge perhaps, with customer engines branded as VW perhaps?That way they can be seen to be competing with both Merc and Renault....??
Whether they will ever take the plunge and do F1 is another matter.
The fact they've pulled the plug on the WRC and Audi WEC does make me believe they might be looking at doing something now in preparation for the next engine reg change.
It's relatively easy for large Car Makers to justify F1 (if they want too...)
VW spent $6.6bn in marketing / advertising in 2015, I'd guess 1% of that would cover a decent F1 engine program, and if successful give great brand image as well.
Obviously it's high risk as Honda are finding out out the moment.
VW spent $6.6bn in marketing / advertising in 2015, I'd guess 1% of that would cover a decent F1 engine program, and if successful give great brand image as well.
Obviously it's high risk as Honda are finding out out the moment.
Mellow Yellow said:
VAG are hardly skint, yeah, they set aside 16bn euros for "dieselgate" in 2015 but then turned around 15 billion euro pre-tax profit in 2016, they could run an F1 team out of their small change if they wanted to.
Indeed.Rumour was VW were spending 100m per annum on the WRC project (don't know if that was Euro's or dollars) but either way, that's a lot of dosh, and with that budget combined with what Audi were spending per annum on the WEC, there's no doubt VAG could fund a serious F1 engine programme..........dieselgate or not.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128801...
Paraphrased: "Well it worked with one cylinder but funnily enough when we scaled to a v6 it went a bit lumpy. At Christmas."
Is it me, or that a bit late to be running it on the dyno for the first time?
Paraphrased: "Well it worked with one cylinder but funnily enough when we scaled to a v6 it went a bit lumpy. At Christmas."
Is it me, or that a bit late to be running it on the dyno for the first time?
Vaud said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128801...
Paraphrased: "Well it worked with one cylinder but funnily enough when we scaled to a v6 it went a bit lumpy. At Christmas."
Is it me, or that a bit late to be running it on the dyno for the first time?
Especially for Honda who I'd have thought would be putting a lot of time into this engine given the grenade their previous one was.Paraphrased: "Well it worked with one cylinder but funnily enough when we scaled to a v6 it went a bit lumpy. At Christmas."
Is it me, or that a bit late to be running it on the dyno for the first time?
Also, and this may be a dunning-kruger thing, but don't modern CAD programs let you simulate complicated systems to see if they'll fatigue/shake themselves to pieces?
And don't all F1 engines share the same vee angle, stroke length, etc? How much freedom do you have to make a lemon?
Vaud said:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128801...
Paraphrased: "Well it worked with one cylinder but funnily enough when we scaled to a v6 it went a bit lumpy. At Christmas."
Is it me, or that a bit late to be running it on the dyno for the first time?
You would have thought that the engine would have been pounding around Suzuka in some sort of test mule for a months before Christmas.Paraphrased: "Well it worked with one cylinder but funnily enough when we scaled to a v6 it went a bit lumpy. At Christmas."
Is it me, or that a bit late to be running it on the dyno for the first time?
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