1st Test 2017

[Vocal Minority]

That depends on who and how liked is rival is.

Rosberg strikes me as pretty inoffensive. Little vanilla, but many are.

But he came up against Hamilton - and you can see the vitriol against him on this thread!

If Hamilton wasn't around he'd have waddled off into history in a fairly innocuous sort of a way probably (even as a multiple champion).

But Hamilton is around. And people like him a lot. And every story needs a bad guy

[tommunster10]

bobbo89 said:

tommunster10 said:

Yes yes of course it is. All paid for by Daddy, what was it 5 of Mercedes top technical guys and his Daddy purchased a simulator for Williams and Stroll jnr had access to the old Williams F1 car for extra testing...
All that plus his Daddy purchased the GP2 title for him pretty much.... But yes you are right, he was born with natural talent.....

Bit of bitterness coming through there! Different routes and all that but I think if you look at a lot of F1 drivers past and present, you'll find they've come from a bit of money, our current WDC being a shining example.

All I'm doing is giving him the benefit of the doubt. Whatever happens it'll be interesting, if he turns out to be pretty competent and even, maybe, becomes a world champion will he always be tarnished as the one who bought his way into F1 and has no talent?

Well correct me if i'm wrong but many many people tarnished Nico's WDC. If Stroll went on to be WDC because like Nico he was in the best car by a mile then it'd be another fine example of all that is wrong with Motorsport if you simply back drivers and not the teams themselves.
It's an engineering sport, the arms race is with technology and engineering not with the drivers, they are as important for marketing as any talent.

[Wills2]

C2996 said:

fk1_6 said:

It looks like Stroll may be out of his depth going by his continual offs at testing, heres hoping he settles down and finds his feet before the season starts but Williams aren't like Red Bull/Torro Rosso so doubt he'd be dropped regardless especially with the funding he brings.

No point in bringing funding if it's all spent repairing the car, he's not even at racing speed and had three offs. Could just be the days of 18 yr old rookies jumping in f1 cars are over though.

He was the F3 champ last year where they have 240hp and 565kg giving 400 odd hp/tonne, what do the 2017 F1 cars have, 900hp/720kg? 1250hp/tonne.

That's some difference for a rookie.

[anonymous-user]

tommunster10 said:

C2996 said:

fk1_6 said:

It looks like Stroll may be out of his depth going by his continual offs at testing, heres hoping he settles down and finds his feet before the season starts but Williams aren't like Red Bull/Torro Rosso so doubt he'd be dropped regardless especially with the funding he brings.

No point in bringing funding if it's all spent repairing the car, he's not even at racing speed and had three offs. Could just be the days of 18 yr old rookies jumping in f1 cars are over though.

Of course he's out of his depth his Dad has paid for him to be where he is at this age. But the fact is an 18 year old who has paid 20 mill is driving an F1 car and out of 60 odd laps has crashed 3 times and that is with the cars apparently being a bit tougher to drive. So clearly that rips up the argument that F1 cars are somehow impossible to drive but for the very pinnacle of drivers.
Come the season he'll be a top ten driver for sure and getting into top 5 a few times.
F1 needs to be harder.

At the risk getting a parrot may I say that's a very optimistic view.

Golden rule of testing is don't bin it. 3 times in two days whilst not going particularly quickly doesn't bode well

[bobbo89]

tommunster10 said:

Well correct me if i'm wrong but many many people tarnished Nico's WDC. If Stroll went on to be WDC because like Nico he was in the best car by a mile then it'd be another fine example of all that is wrong with Motorsport if you simple back drivers and not the teams themselves.
It's an engineering sport, the arms race is with technology and engineering not with the drivers, they are as important for marketing as any talent.

They did, but for a very different reason than who his dad was and how much money he had. I completely agree with you about the engineering aspect, the best skill a driver can seem to posses these days is the ability to sign the right contract!

[DanielSan]

REALIST123 said:

Maybe. To be fair he's met all my expectations so far.

But I can't agree with your 'who wouldn't?' theory. There are plenty of guys who've gone into racing with all the backing and opportunity they might need but have accepted they're not good enough for F1. The sons of Alain Prost and Damon Hill for two.

Josh Hill was getting some very good results, he did enough to prove to himself he could race cars and decided he preferred music, never even attempted to try an F1 car if I recall.

[anonymous-user]

DanielSan said:

Josh Hill was getting some very good results, he did enough to prove to himself he could race cars and decided he preferred music, never even attempted to try an F1 car if I recall.

Michael Schumacher's son Mick Schumacher will no doubt be in F1 in the coming years.

Whether he is able to get near his fathers achievements "which is a cruel way of looking at it but you know the press will state this" is another matter but with the name Schumacher it will open doors.

[anonymous-user]

DanielSan said:

REALIST123 said:

Maybe. To be fair he's met all my expectations so far.

But I can't agree with your 'who wouldn't?' theory. There are plenty of guys who've gone into racing with all the backing and opportunity they might need but have accepted they're not good enough for F1. The sons of Alain Prost and Damon Hill for two.

Josh Hill was getting some very good results, he did enough to prove to himself he could race cars and decided he preferred music, never even attempted to try an F1 car if I recall.

He did OK in FR (?) but was struggling in F3 in 2013 when he stopped.

[Crafty_]

tommunster10 said:

Well correct me if i'm wrong but many many people tarnished Nico's WDC. If Stroll went on to be WDC because like Nico he was in the best car by a mile then it'd be another fine example of all that is wrong with Motorsport if you simply back drivers and not the teams themselves.
It's an engineering sport, the arms race is with technology and engineering not with the drivers, they are as important for marketing as any talent.

I see your point, but lets be honest Maldonado wouldn't have won last year, he'd be too busy peering at his steering wheel and driving off track as a result.

Make no mistake, Rosberg was a good driver, not necessarily a great racer but easily competent enough to take advantage of the situation he found himself in.

Maldonado wouldn't be able to. I pick on poor Pastor as he's still fairly fresh in our memories, but there have been other drivers of the same ilk.

On the other side of it there are many competent drivers who never got a shot in anything decent enough - Brundle, McNish, Wilson all spring to mind.

You never know, Lance might be able to settle down and be a very effective racer, he wouldn't be the first driver to arrive in F1 with a bang (or three..).

Williams are doing what they need to, financially. Lets hope its only a temporary requirement.

[Rich_W]

HustleRussell said:

Aah yes Rich_W the man who confidently predicted that Bottas 'will be fifth or lower' in this year's championship

You do realise that testing is not the championship right?

Vocal Minority said:

The blessed Hamilton has never dropped a bk Russle....you should know that

Don't be silly. Of course he has. But over a season he'll drop it less often that Bottas.

PhillipM said:

George29 said:

If he was "sub optimal" do you think he would have saved it?

Only if by 'saved it' you mean 'clouted the wall and got away with it'

Don't you read the PHorum. Bottas is the next Schumacher. I mean he's never won a race in who knows how many starts. But that was down to everything else. Christ sake Maldonado in the same st box outscored him in 2013!

You'll be telling me that Verstappen's save at Interlagos was entirely down to skill next.

HustleRussell said:

I'm not one of these "Grrr pay driver grumble gruble" sorts, I want to see Stroll surprise those people and expect him to do so.

However I so often see Massa being derided on here. If Massa beats Stroll it is not going to do his career any favours. This is perhaps unfair as personally I feel Massa is underrated, but such is the way of F1.

So Massa is underrated and so is Bottas to you. I see a pattern.


Though I am with you on Stroll. He might come good. It's easy to make a fast driver stop crashing. Harder to make a slow driver fast.

If anyone here remembers Valentino Rossis 2000 entry to motoGP. He crashed a lot that year. Didn't harm him for the next 17 years did it

Vocal Minority said:

I assume Button is relaxing at home in Monaco(?)

Glass of something in his hand enjoying the glow of not driving that McLaren

Probably having a protein shake post triathlon training.

[HustleRussell]

PhillipM said:

Anderson has been contradicting himself all day, I wouldn't read too much into that.

I place a lot of stock in Gary Anderson, perhaps the most technically knowledgable independent commentator attending winter testing?

He seems to suggest that from what he's seen Ferrari have built a very handy car. I find the idea that Ferrari could present a real challenge to Mercedes tantalising. I just hope they have sorted out their often shambolic pit wall / strategy for this season too.

(Yes, I have noticed the pattern over the past three years- Ferrari show their hand in testing while Mercedes sandbag, and Mercedes then turn it up when it matters... only this time the suggestion is that Ferrari might just have built a car which actually handles better than the Mercedes?)

[HustleRussell]

Rich_W said:

HustleRussell said:

I'm not one of these "Grrr pay driver grumble gruble" sorts, I want to see Stroll surprise those people and expect him to do so.

However I so often see Massa being derided on here. If Massa beats Stroll it is not going to do his career any favours. This is perhaps unfair as personally I feel Massa is underrated, but such is the way of F1.

So Massa is underrated and so is Bottas to you. I see a pattern.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. All of these drivers are superhuman to me. Massa, IMO, has spent much of his career in the shadow of F1 superstars and as a result is often underestimated- but yes, I think Stroll will have his work cut out with Massa. Felipe baby has been a bit accident prone in his latter years, whether Stroll can crash less may be a significant factor.

I think we'll see Bottas step up and perform within Mercedes in a similar way to how Rosberg did. If the Mercedes still has the advantage it has had in the past few years I can't imagine him finishing several places behind Hamilton in the championship.

[TRPK]

tommunster10 said:

Yes yes of course it is. All paid for by Daddy, what was it 5 of Mercedes top technical guys and his Daddy purchased a simulator for Williams and Stroll jnr had access to the old Williams F1 car for extra testing...
All that plus his Daddy purchased the GP2 title for him pretty much.... But yes you are right, he was born with natural talent.....

His dad must have paid a lot for that gp2 title, would have been pretty expensive considering his son has never raced in the series.

[HustleRussell]

Speaking of Stroll...

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2017/...

Maybe no car for Felipe baby tomorrow

Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 2nd March 00:11

[PhillipM]

HustleRussell said:

I place a lot of stock in Gary Anderson, perhaps the most technically knowledgable independent commentator attending winter testing?

Read what he's said all day about the Merc understeering everywhere, being a bit slidey, slow to turn in....then watch Ham's onboard.

He comes out with some gems, but sometimes he just seems to ramble for the sake of it.

[Norfolkit]

HustleRussell said:

Speaking of Stroll...

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headlines/2017/...

Maybe no car for Felipe baby tomorrow

Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 2nd March 00:11

How much of a shoestring are Williams running on, second time they've run out of spares in 3 days.

[anonymous-user]

It's not money, it's time to make the parts that have just been designed.

[PhillipM]

It's a brand new car, lead-times on parts you're still designing are a bh

[anonymous-user]

HustleRussell said:

PhillipM said:

Anderson has been contradicting himself all day, I wouldn't read too much into that.

I place a lot of stock in Gary Anderson, perhaps the most technically knowledgable independent commentator attending winter testing?

He seems to suggest that from what he's seen Ferrari have built a very handy car. I find the idea that Ferrari could present a real challenge to Mercedes tantalising. I just hope they have sorted out their often shambolic pit wall / strategy for this season too.

(Yes, I have noticed the pattern over the past three years- Ferrari show their hand in testing while Mercedes sandbag, and Mercedes then turn it up when it matters... only this time the suggestion is that Ferrari might just have built a car which actually handles better than the Mercedes?)

I'll try to dig out a spoof e mail sent round by a Mercedes design engineer two or three years ago. Basically it was a quite negative Anderson missive about the current (soon to be Championship winning) Mercedes car, rewritten into comment about Anderson's insight, knowledge and technical ability.

It wasn't too complimentary but it was very funny, though only partly in jest.

[Vocal Minority]

TRPK said:

tommunster10 said:

Yes yes of course it is. All paid for by Daddy, what was it 5 of Mercedes top technical guys and his Daddy purchased a simulator for Williams and Stroll jnr had access to the old Williams F1 car for extra testing...
All that plus his Daddy purchased the GP2 title for him pretty much.... But yes you are right, he was born with natural talent.....

His dad must have paid a lot for that gp2 title, would have been pretty expensive considering his son has never raced in the series.

Nice