None Championship Races-Ross brawn

[Eric Mc]

Crafty_ said:

Eric Mc said:

Even in series you have no control over?

Eric, the "remove wings" would be for the non championship races, all series races (including F1) would be unaffected.

I don't think that would ever be contemplated. A car that is designed to run from the ground up to operate with sophisticated aero keeping it planted would be lethal without it.

I would LOVE motor racing to not have any downforce in any category. Sadly, apart from historics and some lower grade racing, that will never happen.

[MartG]

I think people are assuming too much from his statement - back in the 60s/70s non-championship races were a regular feature on the calendar. They featured cars to standard F1 spec, but the format of the races differed from a Grand Prix i.e. shorter, different tracks etc. I don't think Brawn is suggesting a race where the technical spec differs very much if at all from standard F1 - the teams simply don't have the budget for that

[Crafty_]

Didn't they used to run F5000 cars at non championship races ?

[MartG]

Some of them were a real mix - F1, F2, F5000

[LaurasOtherHalf]

MartG said:

I think people are assuming too much from his statement - back in the 60s/70s non-championship races were a regular feature on the calendar. They featured cars to standard F1 spec, but the format of the races differed from a Grand Prix i.e. shorter, different tracks etc. I don't think Brawn is suggesting a race where the technical spec differs very much if at all from standard F1 - the teams simply don't have the budget for that

This completely!

[Eric Mc]

MartG said:

Some of them were a real mix - F1, F2, F5000

A Lotus 7 ran in the Rand Grand Prix of 1962 (I think it was).

[CanAm]

hairyben said:

What about active aero, but the catch is it has to be controlled by the driver in an analogue fashion, much as he would the brakes/throttle/steering etc.

Like Chaparral did as long ago as 1965 you mean?

[coppice]

The first Grand Prix I attended was in 1971 - and in the UK we had five races for F1 cars that year. It was bloody great . The formula's current problems are entirely down to two reasons - obscene budgets (and we have had those since manufacturers starting muscling in during the early turbo years , especially )and absurd cars with insane levels of aero and engines which are gratuitously complex. As said ,getting 1000bhp isn't especially challenging compared to bloody ERS and all the other nonsense which makes a 2017 F1 car weigh 200kg more than its 80s counterpart- Hamilton's Merc weighs the same, I read, as a pre war Mercedes GP car with a huge V12 and no GRP , let alone carbon fibre .

Speed, spectacle and competition don't need to be made from such crazily complex and pricey ingredients. F1 should be at the pinnacle but not a separate sport in itself. And when a gazillion pound F1 car in race trim often laps - for tyre and fuel conservation reasons - at speeds which would see it mid grid in GP2 I just despair - can't they see how stupid it looks ?

[Vocal Minority]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

MartG said:

I think people are assuming too much from his statement - back in the 60s/70s non-championship races were a regular feature on the calendar. They featured cars to standard F1 spec, but the format of the races differed from a Grand Prix i.e. shorter, different tracks etc. I don't think Brawn is suggesting a race where the technical spec differs very much if at all from standard F1 - the teams simply don't have the budget for that

This completely!

Exactly - some teams can barely afford to keep up as it is.

No one wants an entirely new car to a new set of rules 'for a bit of fun'.

To think such a thing is likely is naïve. hence my first reply.

Whatever it has to be - needs to be done with kit the teams already have, or that can be adapted cheaply from it.

[tommunster10]

If nothing else it would be cool to see Martin Brundle drive the top car and the back of grid car back to back and we could see time differences and how they compare. Or even a 'Top Gear' top times thing where Brundle drives each F1 car round same track and we can compare lap times then he drives old F1 cars etc etc....

[AndrewEH1]

tommunster10 said:

If nothing else it would be cool to see Martin Brundle drive the top car and the back of grid car back to back and we could see time differences and how they compare. Or even a 'Top Gear' top times thing where Brundle drives each F1 car round same track and we can compare lap times then he drives old F1 cars etc etc....

Couldn't you just compare qualifying times over the years at tracks which haven't had signification layout changes?

[Evangelion]

AndrewEH1 said:

tommunster10 said:

If nothing else it would be cool to see Martin Brundle drive the top car and the back of grid car back to back and we could see time differences and how they compare. Or even a 'Top Gear' top times thing where Brundle drives each F1 car round same track and we can compare lap times then he drives old F1 cars etc etc....

Couldn't you just compare qualifying times over the years at tracks which haven't had signification layout changes?

Probably not, as the majority of F1 circuits have been comprehensively butchered over the years. It makes me laugh to hear people describe Silverstone, Spa, Monza, Hockenheim etc as 'historic' when they were actually changed beyond all recognition decades ago. Virtually nothing of the original circuits remains.

Brands Hatch, now that's historic.

[steve-5snwi]

Maybe they should all run Honda engines and the first one to complete the race wins, maybe it should be a 5 lap sprint ?

[Vocal Minority]

How about when an power unit is at the end of its life and being swapped for another - turn the wick right up and last man standing wins.

Provides something for the marshals to do sweeping up oil and broken bits of piston

[tommunster10]

The other alternative is follow other race series. For me i love F1 for the engineering and advances and strategy and politics. It's never been about door bashing and close racing for me. For that i'll watch BTCC or WTCC though that needs and over haul as TCR series its fantastic.
V8 supercars is ace also. And if i really want to see true gladiators at work and close racing guaranteed I watch the hero's on the motorbikes from Moto GP down to BSB and all inbetween.

I think trying to mold F into an every-man Motorsport has been it's downfall.
I also don't understand how some people just follow F1 and watch no other Motorsport... F1 doesn't need to be like BTCC for example, it needs to be like F1...

[Evangelion]

I can't think an all-Honda race will be very entertaining.

I can see it now:
1 - empty podium position because only ...
2 - finished the race
9 - parked out on the circuit having retired before half distance
11 - stationary in the pits with the drivers sitting making brumm-brumm noises.

[coppice]

tommunster10 said:

The other alternative is follow other race series. For me i love F1 for the engineering and advances and strategy and politics. It's never been about door bashing and close racing for me. For that i'll watch BTCC or WTCC though that needs and over haul as TCR series its fantastic.
V8 supercars is ace also. And if i really want to see true gladiators at work and close racing guaranteed I watch the hero's on the motorbikes from Moto GP down to BSB and all inbetween.

I think trying to mold F into an every-man Motorsport has been it's downfall.
I also don't understand how some people just follow F1 and watch no other Motorsport... F1 doesn't need to be like BTCC for example, it needs to be like F1...

Indeed - but there is so much more than headline stuff on TV ; last season I watched live rallying, rallycross, hillclimbs , autograss , drag racing and circuit racing ancient and modern. Far too many people equate motor sport with sitting on a sofa watching F1 on a big telly- it is a far, far broader church than that .

[MartG]

tommunster10 said:

The other alternative is follow other race series. .

2017 Indycar series starts this Sunday

[Vaud]

tommunster10 said:

I also don't understand how some people just follow F1 and watch no other Motorsport...

I have a young daughter and a very full on job... not enough hours in the week to watch more than one.

I did try watching Nascar the other week when I was in the US and nearly died of boredom. Adverts every 10 min (?), very hard to follow any strategy and a crash every lap (Daytona).

Though to be fair, the footage and camera work was way better than F1.

[The Moose]

Vaud said:

tommunster10 said:

I also don't understand how some people just follow F1 and watch no other Motorsport...

I have a young daughter and a very full on job... not enough hours in the week to watch more than one.

I did try watching Nascar the other week when I was in the US and nearly died of boredom. Adverts every 10 min (?), very hard to follow any strategy and a crash every lap (Daytona).

Though to be fair, the footage and camera work was way better than F1.

What I like most about the NASCAR is the camera work and the fact they talk to the drivers in the cars whilst under yellows.

Maybe this will all improve now Bernie is out of the limelight.