The Official 2017 Australian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

The Official 2017 Australian Grand Prix Thread **Spoilers**

Author
Discussion

Derek Smith

45,512 posts

247 months

Monday 27th March 2017
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Dr Z said:
I found it intriguing that the total race time yesterday of 1hr 24min 11.672s is the fastest GP recorded for the Melbourne track, won at an average speed of ~215 km/h. The fastest ever before this was in 2004: 1hr 24min 15.757. The lap record for the 2004 race is still some way off the fastest lap yesterday, however going into my lap time archive, it looks like Schumacher 3-stopped his way to winning the race, which would explain why he could run close to the car's ultimate pace through the race (plus refuelling). There was one less race lap yesterday, and the average speed for the 2004 race winning time was ~219 km/h. It's unbelievable that these new cars are so close to the 2004 car while not doing refuelling and on a 1-stop. Staggering.
Going from what was, in essence, four sprint races butt-ended to yesterday's fuel limited endurance run is remarkable.

Mind you, people still complained of the lack of overtaking back then.


HustleRussell

24,602 posts

159 months

Monday 27th March 2017
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Quickmoose said:
Historic racing is to allow historic cars to 'race' and people can reminisce.
The philosophy/look of those cars just needs to be brought up to date with the advances in all areas (aside from body mounted aero)
Brought up to date but also inspired by design and technologies 50 years in the past. Got it.

InductionRoar

2,001 posts

131 months

Monday 27th March 2017
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HustleRussell said:
Quickmoose said:
Historic racing is to allow historic cars to 'race' and people can reminisce.
The philosophy/look of those cars just needs to be brought up to date with the advances in all areas (aside from body mounted aero)
Brought up to date but also inspired by design and technologies 50 years in the past. Got it.
No. I don't think you have.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
Would you want a situation where F1 was significantly slower than junior formulae?

(Or would you remove the aero from everything else too?)

VladD

7,853 posts

264 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
otolith said:
Would you want a situation where F1 was significantly slower than junior formulae?

(Or would you remove the aero from everything else too?)
I guess this is the big debate. Do you want to see the fastest cars in the world or cracking racing? The obvious answer is both, but the solution to the obvious answer isn't obvious otherwise that solution would have obviously been implemented.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
You can see cracking racing in any formula.

VladD

7,853 posts

264 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
otolith said:
You can see cracking racing in any formula.
I agree, but people above are complaining that the racing is boring and processional.


Edited by VladD on Monday 27th March 14:34

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
Yes, what I mean is that the thing that is meant to differentiate F1 is not the quality of the racing. You could go and watch Caterhams for that. So any measure intended to improve the spectacle needs not to impinge on what does differentiate F1.

VladD

7,853 posts

264 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
otolith said:
Yes, what I mean is that the thing that is meant to differentiate F1 is not the quality of the racing. You could go and watch Caterhams for that. So any measure intended to improve the spectacle needs not to impinge on what does differentiate F1.
Apologies, I misunderstood the post.

I agree with you. I don't think there's an easy answer or we'd already have it. Maybe the actual answer is to watch F1 for the sheer speed and technology and other formulas, i.e. BTCC, for overtaking. Trying to have the nirvana of having it all could be an impossible task.

Edited by VladD on Monday 27th March 14:34

The Surveyor

7,576 posts

236 months

Monday 27th March 2017
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HustleRussell said:
Everybody is moaning about how bad dirty air syndrome is this season but if anything I think it is less of a problem than last season (probably due to tyres)
It was suggested on C4 yesterday that the wider tyres has if anything shortened the braking zones meaning there is less scope to out-brake a car for a 'late braking' type overtakes.

I do agree with your point about Australia being a processional race every year though.

London424

12,826 posts

174 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
The Surveyor said:
HustleRussell said:
Everybody is moaning about how bad dirty air syndrome is this season but if anything I think it is less of a problem than last season (probably due to tyres)
It was suggested on C4 yesterday that the wider tyres has if anything shortened the braking zones meaning there is less scope to out-brake a car for a 'late braking' type overtakes.

I do agree with your point about Australia being a processional race every year though.
You only have to watch the qualifying lap analysis that was posted to see just that. The braking distances are tiny, and they are almost back on full throttle before the apex of the corner.

Quickmoose

4,482 posts

122 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
VladD said:
otolith said:
Would you want a situation where F1 was significantly slower than junior formulae?

(Or would you remove the aero from everything else too?)
I guess this is the big debate. Do you want to see the fastest cars in the world or cracking racing? The obvious answer is both, but the solution to the obvious answer isn't obvious otherwise that solution would have obviously been implemented.
yep that is the bigger point isn't it. As each lower formulae develop so they too get caught by the 'can't follow due to aero' stuff.

Given the advances in aero there must be ways of developing sufficient downforce without the big wings... that's what F1 does so well, engineer and solve stuff with ingenuity and talent...not just slap a barn door on the front and back with little cut outs...

Eric Mc

121,773 posts

264 months

Monday 27th March 2017
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HustleRussell said:
That exists- it's called 'historic racing'.
And mighty entertaining it can be too - BUT, it doesn't have current drivers pushing to the absolute limits - which makes a big difference.

I would love to see modern high tech F1 with little or no downforce. The cars and the racing would be incredible.

The problem is that F1 does not exist on its own. There are dozens of other racing categories and they do have to keep an eye on the performance cacability of some of those other categories.

They do get a bit twitchy when some lesser grade (in their mind) of cars start approaching F1 lap times.

otolith

55,899 posts

203 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
VladD said:
Apologies, I misunderstood the post.

I agree with you. I don't think there's an easy answer or we'd already have it. Maybe the actual answer is to watch F1 for the sheer speed and technology and other formulas, i.e. BTCC, for overtaking. Trying to have the nirvana of having it all could be an impossible task.
Yeah, it's difficult to resolve. There was an attempt about ten years ago to develop the technical regulations so that the flow off the back of the cars was less turbulent, but it was canned. I would be surprised if generating as dirty a wake as possible isn't an aero design consideration by the teams.

I think I would look at track design. Street circuits especially seem unsuited to the capabilities of modern F1 cars.

Quickmoose

4,482 posts

122 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
otolith said:
Yeah, it's difficult to resolve. There was an attempt about ten years ago to develop the technical regulations so that the flow off the back of the cars was less turbulent, but it was canned. I would be surprised if generating as dirty a wake as possible isn't an aero design consideration by the teams.

I think I would look at track design. Street circuits especially seem unsuited to the capabilities of modern F1 cars.
Tracks with 2-3 mile long straights which allow cars to drive vertically on banks or upside down...so you could OVER take... we keep being told their aero allows them to drive upside down...lets see it...

VladD

7,853 posts

264 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
Quickmoose said:
VladD said:
otolith said:
Would you want a situation where F1 was significantly slower than junior formulae?

(Or would you remove the aero from everything else too?)
I guess this is the big debate. Do you want to see the fastest cars in the world or cracking racing? The obvious answer is both, but the solution to the obvious answer isn't obvious otherwise that solution would have obviously been implemented.
yep that is the bigger point isn't it. As each lower formulae develop so they too get caught by the 'can't follow due to aero' stuff.

Given the advances in aero there must be ways of developing sufficient downforce without the big wings... that's what F1 does so well, engineer and solve stuff with ingenuity and talent...not just slap a barn door on the front and back with little cut outs...
Maybe they need to develop aerodynamics that tidy up the airflow as it passes over the back of the car, reducing the turbulence that the following car has to face. I'm sure that it wouldn't be that hard to do, but policing it could be very tricky unless the FiA can take a portable wind tunnel to each race and do random checks.

Munter

31,319 posts

240 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
Impose standard wing designs, that create cleaner air than currently. Given them an option of say 10 to pick from at any race. But open up the engine /fuel regs to allow more power, and keep the lap times low.

A 2000BHP F1 car with the grip of a formula ford should sort the men from the boys...

PhillipM

6,515 posts

188 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
Iron filings in the tarmac and magnetic tyres. Then take the wings off. And give them another 500bhp.

VladD

7,853 posts

264 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
Munter said:
Impose standard wing designs, that create cleaner air than currently. Given them an option of say 10 to pick from at any race. But open up the engine /fuel regs to allow more power, and keep the lap times low.

A 2000BHP F1 car with the grip of a formula ford should sort the men from the boys...
The problem with standard items is that they stifle innovation.

Vaud

50,287 posts

154 months

Monday 27th March 2017
quotequote all
VladD said:
The problem with standard items is that they stifle innovation.
Some do, some don't, but I take your point.