Vandoorne out at McLaren!
Discussion
NFC 85 Vette said:
It's hard to work out what exactly Vandorne did wrong. He didn't have Alonso's pace or consistency, and there was the odd lackluster weekend, but if we regard Alonso as working miracles each weekend in a McLaren that just doesn't have underlying pace, Stoffel's actually been doing an alright job being as close as he is. I hope he finds another drive - he's a decent operator. Sauber or Torro Rosso perhaps.
Perhaps Norris was being approached by other teams and they've been pushed into promoting him for risk of losing him all together.
Not really. Alonso has 44 points and 5 DNFsPerhaps Norris was being approached by other teams and they've been pushed into promoting him for risk of losing him all together.
Stoffel 3 DNFs and 8 points - he’s been comprehensively trounced.
CrgT16 said:
The sad thing is that in the case of Alonso and Kimi their replacements are not better nor will be faster.
Sainz is not going to be quicker than Alonso was, Norris May not be an improvement on Stoffel. In Ferrari whoever comes to replace Kimi is going to play no.2 even more so than Kimi.
On the upside for the teams what they loose in points they will save in wages.
I can't see Sainz as anything other than a stopgap for Mclaren, who he's "stopgapping" for I've no idea unless there's someone out there with talent and an ambition to be Schumy Mark 2, taking the team from the bottom to the top. Personally I think they'd be better off getting in a top notch team principal to get to the bottom of their problems rather than worry about the drivers, the car's that bad the drivers can't do much with it anyway. Much as I don't like Alonso, if he couldn't drag it up the sharp end any driver available to Mclaren won't be able to either.Sainz is not going to be quicker than Alonso was, Norris May not be an improvement on Stoffel. In Ferrari whoever comes to replace Kimi is going to play no.2 even more so than Kimi.
On the upside for the teams what they loose in points they will save in wages.
ghost83 said:
When I’ve looked at stoffel I’ve never rated him against Alonso as that wouldn’t be fair but I have looked at him against the other youngsters like leclerc or magnussen or even Gasly and Hartley and stoffel just doesn’t shine!
Tbh I think magnussen deserves a top drive he’s got the right racers attitude for it
Magnussen needs a race ban.Tbh I think magnussen deserves a top drive he’s got the right racers attitude for it
The guy has no idea about defending in a safe way.
The guy is going to cause a very bad accident.
I would be delighted if he was out of F1.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
37chevy said:
its not difficult to rate him. if hes not a quick youngster matching an experienced team mate, or an experienced driver adding technical knowledge then he shouldn't really be in a top team,
hes been neither. first rule of f1....match or beat your teammate.
But McLaren have replaced Alonso with Sainz who can't match his teammate hes been neither. first rule of f1....match or beat your teammate.
hairyben said:
entropy said:
Alonso started off in F1 driving for Minardi which on paper was meant to start on the back of the grid but in reality rarely wasn't.
tough to compare such different eras, but alonsos minardi teammate was no great shakes but still dragged a couple of 9th placed finishes out of the car, placing him above young fred..At Suzuka that year he finished 11th ahead of Frentzen's Prost, the BAR of Olivier Panis, the two Arrows and his teammate. The Minardi team principal described his race as "53 laps of qualifying".
DanielSan said:
Blue62 said:
I feel a bit sorry for Vandoorne and hope he picks up a drive, it can't be easy trying to keep up with Alonso. I admit to some bias but I think he's easily a match for Lewis and Seb, if not a little better.
If that was the case he’d have been keeping up with Alonso I think Vandoorne has been treated quite harshly.
Although he has scored a lot less points than Alonso (44 v 8) the vast majority of those points were scored in the first half of the season where McLaren later discovered that Vandoorne's car wasn't producing the same level of downforce as Alonso's.
In the 3 races since giving Vandoorne a new chassis the McLaren has only been vaguely competitive in one of them (Hungary) where Vandoorne suffered a DNF.
Although he has scored a lot less points than Alonso (44 v 8) the vast majority of those points were scored in the first half of the season where McLaren later discovered that Vandoorne's car wasn't producing the same level of downforce as Alonso's.
In the 3 races since giving Vandoorne a new chassis the McLaren has only been vaguely competitive in one of them (Hungary) where Vandoorne suffered a DNF.
REALIST123 said:
And rumour has it that Norris’s management team were wary of putting him up against Alonso, fearing a repeat of the Vandoorne scenario and might have tried to get him into a TR seat had Alonso not retired from F1.
I wonder how Norris and his management team actually feel about this.If Norris performs well the likelihood is that McLaren will have an option in their favour which they will take up - keeping him at McLaren whether they turn around the team or not.
If Norris performs badly then he will be cast aside like Perez, Magnussen and Vandoorne.
Unless McLaren come good soon then his career might already be over.
Vandoorne always seems a decent bloke..but he just never seemed to be "on it" in the way that some of the other new-ish drivers such as LeClerc and Gasly have done.
Yes the McLaren has been an utter dog during his tenure, and no I didn't expect him to be snapping at Alonso's heels the entire time but he's had 2 years and there haven't been any flashes of brilliance, nothing that got my attention. In fact I can't think of a single positive memorable thing he's done.
Realistically it's going to be another two-three years at least before McLaren are back at the sharp end so at this point the 2019 driver line up makes perfect sense - Sainz is solid enough to pick up some points and keep a bit of prize money flowing in and experienced enough to provide the feedback needed to develop the car. Norris has shown substantial promise and keeping him onboard now is a worthwhile punt in the event that he delivers on that promise and is coming into his F1 skills at the right time.
Yes the McLaren has been an utter dog during his tenure, and no I didn't expect him to be snapping at Alonso's heels the entire time but he's had 2 years and there haven't been any flashes of brilliance, nothing that got my attention. In fact I can't think of a single positive memorable thing he's done.
Realistically it's going to be another two-three years at least before McLaren are back at the sharp end so at this point the 2019 driver line up makes perfect sense - Sainz is solid enough to pick up some points and keep a bit of prize money flowing in and experienced enough to provide the feedback needed to develop the car. Norris has shown substantial promise and keeping him onboard now is a worthwhile punt in the event that he delivers on that promise and is coming into his F1 skills at the right time.
Sadly regardless of talent, a badly designed car is a badly designed car from day one and the last three McLarens have been dreadful. The team is poorly managed and drivers need support along with a car that can improve. Stoffel joined the wrong team, at the wrong time and I worry that Norris has also done the wrong thing. A novice driver in a badly managed team isn't good and with a terrible design team at McLaren his 2019 wont be a good introduction into F1.
hairyben said:
37chevy said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
It's hard to rate Vandoorne when he has been in such a pig of a car.
But he just has not been anywhere near Alonso.
.
its not difficult to rate him. if hes not a quick youngster matching an experienced team mate, or an experienced driver adding technical knowledge then he shouldn't really be in a top team,But he just has not been anywhere near Alonso.
.
hes been neither. first rule of f1....match or beat your teammate.
You wouldn't score a kid doing a piano major in his big exam on how he handled a beat up old junker of a piano
Edit
Basically what KaraK said.
Edited by justleanitupabit on Tuesday 11th September 11:11
Edited by justleanitupabit on Tuesday 11th September 11:18
KaraK said:
Vandoorne always seems a decent bloke..but he just never seemed to be "on it" in the way that some of the other new-ish drivers such as LeClerc and Gasly have done.
Yes the McLaren has been an utter dog during his tenure, and no I didn't expect him to be snapping at Alonso's heels the entire time but he's had 2 years and there haven't been any flashes of brilliance, nothing that got my attention. In fact I can't think of a single positive memorable thing he's done.
Realistically it's going to be another two-three years at least before McLaren are back at the sharp end so at this point the 2019 driver line up makes perfect sense - Sainz is solid enough to pick up some points and keep a bit of prize money flowing in and experienced enough to provide the feedback needed to develop the car. Norris has shown substantial promise and keeping him onboard now is a worthwhile punt in the event that he delivers on that promise and is coming into his F1 skills at the right time.
I remember him being quite impressive when he stood in for Alonso to make his debut. Seem to recall him scoring McLaren's only point for much of that season though I admit my memory for the stats is pretty bad. Shame it just never seemed to kick on from there. He does seem to be a decent chap. Hopefully we'll see him in some other form of motorsport very soon. I could imagine doing well in WEC. He seems a very safe pair of hands. Yes the McLaren has been an utter dog during his tenure, and no I didn't expect him to be snapping at Alonso's heels the entire time but he's had 2 years and there haven't been any flashes of brilliance, nothing that got my attention. In fact I can't think of a single positive memorable thing he's done.
Realistically it's going to be another two-three years at least before McLaren are back at the sharp end so at this point the 2019 driver line up makes perfect sense - Sainz is solid enough to pick up some points and keep a bit of prize money flowing in and experienced enough to provide the feedback needed to develop the car. Norris has shown substantial promise and keeping him onboard now is a worthwhile punt in the event that he delivers on that promise and is coming into his F1 skills at the right time.
justleanitupabit said:
Unfortunately for Stoffel there has not (that I can recall) been one moment that has indicated that he will ever be anything other than just about competent. Nothing - no spark, no stand out moments.
I think that is harsh.As a reserve driver he outqualified his teammate and scored points on his debut (the first reserve driver to do so since Vettel stood in for Kubica at the US GP in 2007).
I genuinely believe that Stoffel has been dropped because of circumstances rather than actual ability - namely that McLaren had an option on Norris that was going to expire and knew that Red Bull would have taken him if they didn't.
justleanitupabit said:
Unfortunately for Stoffel there has not (that I can recall) been one moment that has indicated that he will ever be anything other than just about competent. Nothing - no spark, no stand out moments.
That is a reasonable observation, but only if you are ignoring everything he did before 2017. Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff