George Russell's teammate for 2025?
Discussion
With Alonso signing for Aston, assuming Stroll takes the other seat again that only really leaves the Red Bull seat of Perez as the other decent seat potentially up for grabs.
I am pretty sure Perez is doing exactly what he needs to do to get resigned.
Other than the remaining Mercedes seat that just leaves all the bottom teams and the Journeyman drivers and potential new drivers to F1 up for grabs other than Sainz.
Vettel has lost it, it is as obvious as when it happened to Ricciardo at McLaren.
Sainz is literally the only decent driver available to fill the seat.
I am pretty sure Perez is doing exactly what he needs to do to get resigned.
Other than the remaining Mercedes seat that just leaves all the bottom teams and the Journeyman drivers and potential new drivers to F1 up for grabs other than Sainz.
Vettel has lost it, it is as obvious as when it happened to Ricciardo at McLaren.
Sainz is literally the only decent driver available to fill the seat.
Jasandjules said:
Indeed, when he was beating Max previously actions were taken to stop that........
There is mountain of talent between them. Sainz is a very good driver, but Verstappen is at Senna-like level. Sainz in karting was just average at best, Verstappen is probably the best kart driver of all times because in a single year (2013) he became European Champion and World Champion in KZ karts (gearbox, front brakes), European champion in KF karts (no gearbox, no front brakes), and still finished third in the KF world championship.
Sainz was defeated by Kvyat in GP3, and would later win the F-Renault 3.5 V6 championship but with a very weak grid. Verstappen exited karting and jumped all the junior formulas (F-Renault 2.0, F4) and started directly into the European F3, finishing third as a rookie, against drivers who had at least 2 single seater seasons.
Saints has matured into a very, very good driver. The complete opposite of the wunderkinds who blaze a trail through the lower formula then fizzle out once they reach F1.
If he finds himself in a lucky position (as for instance Button did in '09) he will certainly win a WDC. He's never going to beat a Max or a Lewis but if for instance, he was at Mercedes and they had a title challenger on their hands next year (fantasy I know!) among Red Bull and Ferrari I think he could win it. I'd put my money on him above Russel in a mixed up year. He'd need the luck and his skillset would take care of everything else.
Red Bull should really sign him though, he's not on Max's level but by god he'd hoover up loads of points and a good few wins when Max had an off day. And if by some miracle the other teams caught up he'd be much more use than Perez at taking points off everyone else.
If he finds himself in a lucky position (as for instance Button did in '09) he will certainly win a WDC. He's never going to beat a Max or a Lewis but if for instance, he was at Mercedes and they had a title challenger on their hands next year (fantasy I know!) among Red Bull and Ferrari I think he could win it. I'd put my money on him above Russel in a mixed up year. He'd need the luck and his skillset would take care of everything else.
Red Bull should really sign him though, he's not on Max's level but by god he'd hoover up loads of points and a good few wins when Max had an off day. And if by some miracle the other teams caught up he'd be much more use than Perez at taking points off everyone else.
Kart16 said:
There is mountain of talent between them. Sainz is a very good driver, but Verstappen is at Senna-like level.
My apologies I forgot you are also on the do not engage as waste of time to do so list.Worries me you don't even realise they were team mates and one was doing better than the other.. Which is why the Verstappens took steps to remove Sainz.... It is well documentated.
Jasandjules said:
My apologies I forgot you are also on the do not engage as waste of time to do so list.
Worries me you don't even realise they were team mates and one was doing better than the other.. Which is why the Verstappens took steps to remove Sainz.... It is well documentated.
Do you seriously believe that without the dastardly Verstappen's machinations Saintz would have ended up a multiple world champion and Max an also-ran, doing some American race series with Kvyat or Formula E with some other failed Red Bull drivers?Worries me you don't even realise they were team mates and one was doing better than the other.. Which is why the Verstappens took steps to remove Sainz.... It is well documentated.
Max always was and continues to be, a generational talent. If Max had never been born his titles would not have gone to Saintz or Ricciardo.
Red Bull did what they needed to do to polish the rough diamond he always was.
You don't have to like him, his family nor Red Bull (they're all a pretty unlikeable bunch) but there's simply no denying what he is if you understand the sport.
maz8062 said:
Merc will make the mistake in pairing GR and Antonelli or Sainz when what they need is a WDC in the second car. Put a rookie in the car and it’ll be a regressive step because you’ll have drivers that have never competed for an F1 wdc - they won’t know what to do, how to handle the pressure or when to play the long game .
Based on what has gone before, an inexperienced pairing will only hasten their decline, but it’s tempting and makes sense on paper.
My choice would be one of the relatively young retired wdc’s in Rosberg or Vettel.
The only active WDC realistically available was Alonso and he has just re-signed with Aston MartinBased on what has gone before, an inexperienced pairing will only hasten their decline, but it’s tempting and makes sense on paper.
My choice would be one of the relatively young retired wdc’s in Rosberg or Vettel.
Rosberg hasn’t driven competitively for over 7 years.
Vettel was fairly evenly matched with Lance Stroll in his last season, which tells you everything.
Advocating for a WDC is fine but it highlights Mercedes’ problem - there just aren’t any available.
PRO5T said:
Do you seriously believe that without the dastardly Verstappen's machinations Saintz would have ended up a multiple world champion and Max an also-ran, doing some American race series with Kvyat or Formula E with some other failed Red Bull drivers?
Max always was and continues to be, a generational talent. If Max had never been born his titles would not have gone to Saintz or Ricciardo.
Red Bull did what they needed to do to polish the rough diamond he always was.
You don't have to like him, his family nor Red Bull (they're all a pretty unlikeable bunch) but there's simply no denying what he is if you understand the sport.
Max has only been under the real pressure of a tight WDC once, and he cracked. He was well and truly outclassed in the last few races of 2021.Max always was and continues to be, a generational talent. If Max had never been born his titles would not have gone to Saintz or Ricciardo.
Red Bull did what they needed to do to polish the rough diamond he always was.
You don't have to like him, his family nor Red Bull (they're all a pretty unlikeable bunch) but there's simply no denying what he is if you understand the sport.
540TORQUES said:
Max has only been under the real pressure of a tight WDC once, and he cracked. He was well and truly outclassed in the last few races of 2021.
The only weakness Verstappen has is resorting to questionable driving standards when under pressure. A trait shared with those other serial losers Senna, Alonso, Vettel and Schumacher.Hamilton in equal machinery can take it to him, nobody else on the grid could.
Forester1965 said:
540TORQUES said:
Max has only been under the real pressure of a tight WDC once, and he cracked. He was well and truly outclassed in the last few races of 2021.
The only weakness Verstappen has is resorting to questionable driving standards when under pressure. A trait shared with those other serial losers Senna, Alonso, Vettel and Schumacher.Hamilton in equal machinery can take it to him, nobody else on the grid could.
What people always seem to forget is you're watching Max learn and mature (don't laugh), Lewis had worse comments throughout his younger days or just as bad. Max, I'm afraid to say for his detractors, is only going to get better.
Leithen said:
Muzzer79 said:
Advocating for a WDC is fine but it highlights Mercedes’ problem - there just aren’t any available.
Another WDC isn’t going to fix the problem, even if one was available. Ferrari tried the proven-WDC thing for years - in the 90s with Prost, then with Alonso in the 2010s, then Vettel and look where that got them.
They’re now trying it with Hamilton, although one suspects it’s not just his driving that they’re after.
Mercedes’ way back to the top is to find another Verstappen and build the team around him. That may be Russell - only they know how good he really is, but from the outside he has acquitted himself very well against Hamilton.
Muzzer79 said:
Leithen said:
Muzzer79 said:
Advocating for a WDC is fine but it highlights Mercedes’ problem - there just aren’t any available.
Another WDC isn’t going to fix the problem, even if one was available. Ferrari tried the proven-WDC thing for years - in the 90s with Prost, then with Alonso in the 2010s, then Vettel and look where that got them.
They’re now trying it with Hamilton, although one suspects it’s not just his driving that they’re after.
Mercedes’ way back to the top is to find another Verstappen and build the team around him. That may be Russell - only they know how good he really is, but from the outside he has acquitted himself very well against Hamilton.
2025 is gone, 2026 possibly too if he doesn’t get his act together. The drivers are not the priority at the moment.
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