Adrian Newey to Ferrari? Is it possible?
Discussion
Jasandjules said:
Just being silly to get "Handy" into a sentence really.
No clauses really matter if this is a contract with a Ltd company, he can just fold the company and start a new one......
Of course he can't. There's no way on earth his contract with RB would allow such an easy get-out. It'd be a slam dunk negligence case against the draughting lawyers (not that any competent lawyer would make that mistake). If Newey could avoid his obligations by folding a Ltd he has sole control of it'd render the entire contract meaningless from RB's POV.No clauses really matter if this is a contract with a Ltd company, he can just fold the company and start a new one......
- If* he's paid via a separate company rather than as an employee, he'll almost certainly have collateral personal obligations which remain extant whatever the status of his own company.
tight fart said:
Has there been any official announcements anywhere yet?
Yes. RB have made an announcement. Wooly-worded, and not definitive. That, many might think, speaks volumes. Rather like, 'I have been cleared by the KC's investigation.' The cynics might wonder if they, RB, are concerned about investors' desire to remain with them. Thankfully, I'm not cynical. Forester1965 said:
- If* he's paid via a separate company rather than as an employee, he'll almost certainly have collateral personal obligations which remain extant whatever the status of his own company.
Jasandjules said:
If the contract is with the Ltd company, what clause do you think will survive the dissolution of that company and whom do you think would be liable and could have enforcement action taken against, and how?
Who says there can only be two parties to a contract or only one contract?So if I read it correct, RB have a contract with AN Ltd to have the services of a Chief Technical Officer. Surely all AN needs to do is employ into his company an engineer to fulfill the role and a company manager. He then resigns from the company himself as an employee. The contract is still between RB and the Ltd company. New engineer takes up position with RB to fulfil the requirement of the contract and the company manager with no technical expertise can field the backlash.
AN then sets up a new company and signs contract with a new team, or, AN signs directly as an employee.
AN then sets up a new company and signs contract with a new team, or, AN signs directly as an employee.
Forester1965 said:
Of course he can't. There's no way on earth his contract with RB would allow such an easy get-out. It'd be a slam dunk negligence case against the draughting lawyers (not that any competent lawyer would make that mistake). If Newey could avoid his obligations by folding a Ltd he has sole control of it'd render the entire contract meaningless from RB's POV.
Not an issue of lawyer competency or mistake. Anyway, we just don't know. - If* he's paid via a separate company rather than as an employee, he'll almost certainly have collateral personal obligations which remain extant whatever the status of his own company.
These contracts are legally complex; constructing a contractual relationship of service (personal employment) versus for services (independent contractor through a personal service company) has significant IR20 contractor tax different treatment; not forgetting NI costs and VAT. RCs are easier to implement in employment, but harder to structure enforcement against a genuine independent contractor, because stopping your independent supplier from allowing its staff to service other customers by supply contract takes any for services relationship back towards a contract of service.
Key sportsman contracts are more nuanced and usually well lawyered. Which is why I expect any Newey move to be eased by cash payment, akin to a football transfer, eg Liverpool paying 9m a release fee for new manager Slot.
HocusPocus said:
Key sportsman contracts are more nuanced and usually well lawyered. Which is why I expect any Newey move to be eased by cash payment, akin to a football transfer, eg Liverpool paying 9m a release fee for new manager Slot.
The distinction being a football player doesn't really bring any valuable IP over and above their own skills on the pitch/commercial rights value. Newey knows all RBs secrets and the damage he could do to their earning potential in the short and medium term is substantial.
Also, both parties to the contract(s) will have been lawyered up with the best commercial law firms money can buy. The thought Newey could simply fold a one man Ltd and avoid any post contract restrictions is childish thinking.
Forester1965 said:
HocusPocus said:
Key sportsman contracts are more nuanced and usually well lawyered. Which is why I expect any Newey move to be eased by cash payment, akin to a football transfer, eg Liverpool paying 9m a release fee for new manager Slot.
The distinction being a football player doesn't really bring any valuable IP over and above their own skills on the pitch/commercial rights value. Newey knows all RBs secrets and the damage he could do to their earning potential in the short and medium term is substantial.
Also, both parties to the contract(s) will have been lawyered up with the best commercial law firms money can buy. The thought Newey could simply fold a one man Ltd and avoid any post contract restrictions is childish thinking.
Hence the typical transfer fee solution all round to avoid mutual uncertainty, cost and aggro etc.
tribalsurfer said:
So if I read it correct, RB have a contract with AN Ltd to have the services of a Chief Technical Officer. Surely all AN needs to do is employ into his company an engineer to fulfill the role and a company manager. He then resigns from the company himself as an employee. The contract is still between RB and the Ltd company. New engineer takes up position with RB to fulfil the requirement of the contract and the company manager with no technical expertise can field the backlash.
AN then sets up a new company and signs contract with a new team, or, AN signs directly as an employee.
Again, RB will have specified that AN Ltd provide the services of Adrian Newey and Adrian Newey alone.AN then sets up a new company and signs contract with a new team, or, AN signs directly as an employee.
Otherwise, there’d be no point in having a contract with Adrian Newey, via whatever means.
suffolk009 said:
Jasandjules said:
If the contract is with the Ltd company, what clause do you think will survive the dissolution of that company and whom do you think would be liable and could have enforcement action taken against, and how?
I was wondering that myself.But I think they can place a period where the company and Newey aren’t allowed to compete via another F1 team.
Otherwise, why would Red Bull have a contract with him?
Sandpit Steve said:
It would be funny if Ferrari paid him the first year to purely work on their new sailing boat project and their potential Americas Cup entry, and not be working for Red Bull. There’s no possible way that a car designer can be prevented by contract from working on a boat design project.
My feeling is exactly that, he goes off to Ferrari for rest of this year and next working on their America's Cup yacht, which we all know is something he's longed to do, and at his age, time is not on his side to achieve it.....which gives him a break from F1 for 18 months, and then joins the F1 team for 2026.Killing off Ltd1 and restarting as Ltd2 as a solution is phoenixing: and a clear signal to any court that you are just a dishonest scumbag intent on evading legal obligations which you have effectively conceded. Better to stand in Ltd1 and fight any claims on the legal points and evidence.
Plus those suggesting dissolving Ltd1 should study the insolvency process and what happens to contract obligations upon appointment of a liquidator. They don't just evaporate.
Plus those suggesting dissolving Ltd1 should study the insolvency process and what happens to contract obligations upon appointment of a liquidator. They don't just evaporate.
Drivers, engineers and even team principals swap teams all the time. Sometimes payment is made in lieu of garden time as a release fee, other times not. Each of them will possess sensitive technical/commercial information, or trade secrets. Everyone usually finds a solution. Newey will be no different whether he chooses to move teams or hang up his pencil.
ERIKM400 said:
Question that just popped up in my head.
How much could Hamilton's decision to switch to Ferrari have been influenced by him knowing about, supecting, guessing or gambling on Newey moving from Red Bull to Ferrari?
I would imagine it was the other way around? Newey wants to work with the Prancing Horse and Lewis?How much could Hamilton's decision to switch to Ferrari have been influenced by him knowing about, supecting, guessing or gambling on Newey moving from Red Bull to Ferrari?
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