Official 2024 Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2024 Australian Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 129
Discussion
carlo996 said:
HardtopManual said:
paulguitar said:
carlo996 said:
Nah. It just fits your narrative.
What are you disagreeing with, specifically? paulguitar said:
It's one race, and therefore a significant stretch.
The Mercedes era included three seasons with Hamilton and Rosberg racing each other, two seasons of Hamilton racing competitive Ferraris and one season of Hamilton racing Verstappen (who was awarded the WDC). Nothing involving 'rose tints', merely facts.
996:
Nah. It just fits your narrative.
What specifically did you disagree with in the response??
maz8062 said:
Yes Alonso is embarrassed as are his fans but that’s exactly what he did and there’s no hiding - it’s all there in the telemetry.
I've not forgotten Alonso's past and because of his driving, competiveness and praise from pundits had recently regarded him as a great driver and strategist whose talent was being wasted in uncompetitive cars, but that stunt at the last race has really put me off. carinaman said:
I've not forgotten Alonso's past and had regarded his as a great driver and strategist whose talent was being wasted in uncompetitive cars, but that stunt at the last race has really put me off.
He's an impulsive person and that's almost certainly cost him multiple world championships by being in the wrong team at the wrong time. Forester1965 said:
carinaman said:
I've not forgotten Alonso's past and had regarded his as a great driver and strategist whose talent was being wasted in uncompetitive cars, but that stunt at the last race has really put me off.
He's an impulsive person and that's almost certainly cost him multiple world championships by being in the wrong team at the wrong time. For me, it was a reckless and dangerous brake test by Alonso, and the data (plus all the BS on the radio afterwards about the throttle problem) shows it for what it was. I think the stewards bottled it and he needed a race ban at least.
Bo_apex said:
NRS said:
Bo_apex said:
Would it still be "wrong" if Ham had done the same while trying to keep Rus behind ?
F1 is becoming Disney.
It’s been Disney for a while, just as it benefitted Max you didn’t care.F1 is becoming Disney.
The issue is if you allow people to move around/do unpredictable stuff it ruins racing as you have no idea what to expect. How do you pass someone on the straight if someone can weave as much as they want, forcing the driver behind to have to slam on the brakes for example? Same with corners, if someone is trying to get into position and the person in front can brake check then it makes passing impossible.
FIA needs to clarify "necessary" threshold.
and introduce rear brake lights
jm doc said:
carlo996 said:
HardtopManual said:
paulguitar said:
carlo996 said:
Nah. It just fits your narrative.
What are you disagreeing with, specifically? paulguitar said:
It's one race, and therefore a significant stretch.
The Mercedes era included three seasons with Hamilton and Rosberg racing each other, two seasons of Hamilton racing competitive Ferraris and one season of Hamilton racing Verstappen (who was awarded the WDC). Nothing involving 'rose tints', merely facts.
996:
Nah. It just fits your narrative.
What specifically did you disagree with in the response??
Piginapoke said:
Forester1965 said:
carinaman said:
I've not forgotten Alonso's past and had regarded his as a great driver and strategist whose talent was being wasted in uncompetitive cars, but that stunt at the last race has really put me off.
He's an impulsive person and that's almost certainly cost him multiple world championships by being in the wrong team at the wrong time. For me, it was a reckless and dangerous brake test by Alonso, and the data (plus all the BS on the radio afterwards about the throttle problem) shows it for what it was. I think the stewards bottled it and he needed a race ban at least.
Likes Fast Cars said:
Piginapoke said:
Forester1965 said:
carinaman said:
I've not forgotten Alonso's past and had regarded his as a great driver and strategist whose talent was being wasted in uncompetitive cars, but that stunt at the last race has really put me off.
He's an impulsive person and that's almost certainly cost him multiple world championships by being in the wrong team at the wrong time. For me, it was a reckless and dangerous brake test by Alonso, and the data (plus all the BS on the radio afterwards about the throttle problem) shows it for what it was. I think the stewards bottled it and he needed a race ban at least.
jm doc said:
TheDeuce said:
Forester1965 said:
Bo_apex said:
Agree they cannot be prevented. But Ham got rattled at the previous corners.
The Copse punt was highly accurate and highly effective. Do you believe it was a mistake ?
Yes and no. It looked impulsive and I suspect he wanted to put Verstappen in the position of either back off or we're going to crash. It wasn't the first or last time he tried into that corner, though. If I remember correctly Leclerc was rather more for letting him through. The Copse punt was highly accurate and highly effective. Do you believe it was a mistake ?
Hamilton deserved his penalty.
I suspect Lewis knew there was a good chance what did happen, could happen. I can understand the phycological reasons for (literally) not giving a spare inch to Max, but nonetheless it was his decision to play that game with Max and it went wrong, he deserved the penalty. As has Max deserved it when he has driven so defensively and it's 'gone wrong'. I don't blame either for driving that hard that season, I also don't blame the stewards for calling it when the st hits the fan.
We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
carinaman said:
maz8062 said:
Yes Alonso is embarrassed as are his fans but that’s exactly what he did and there’s no hiding - it’s all there in the telemetry.
I've not forgotten Alonso's past and because of his driving, competiveness and praise from pundits had recently regarded him as a great driver and strategist whose talent was being wasted in uncompetitive cars, but that stunt at the last race has really put me off. I refer the honourable gentleman to
Byker28i said:
I can't think of any other driver knowingly given a win by having his team mate crash.
I can't think of any other driver throwing his toys out the cot and blackmailing his team leader unless he deliberately knobbled his younger team mates car who was showing him up/ gave him preferential treatment to the detriment of his younger team mate.
Who then went to the FIA in a strop and ruined the whole team, biggest fine ever etc...
Thats before we get to his 'racecraft' or 'positioning' and late moves to stop himself being overtaken. He walks the line in a lot of races
I can't think of any other driver throwing his toys out the cot and blackmailing his team leader unless he deliberately knobbled his younger team mates car who was showing him up/ gave him preferential treatment to the detriment of his younger team mate.
Who then went to the FIA in a strop and ruined the whole team, biggest fine ever etc...
Thats before we get to his 'racecraft' or 'positioning' and late moves to stop himself being overtaken. He walks the line in a lot of races
Byker28i said:
Strictly speaking the onboards showed Lewis was level alongside going into the corner, Max tried braking later and cutting off Lewis but heading for the apex, but hadn't fully cleared Lewis. You see it the moment he turned the wheel trying to squeeze Lewis as he's done for several laps/corners before, but Lewis was level this time and didn't back out as before, thinking Max would give him space. Hence why many think the Hamilton penalty was wrong, but accepted the stewards decision.
We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
I agree with your analysis, but don't think Hamilton thought Verstappen would give him space: I think it's more like he'd had enough of Verstappens "move or we crash" attitude, so called him on it, & so into the cat litter he went. Not malicious, just "if you play hard, I play hard" racing, but no argument from me with the stewards decision, they held Hamilton mostly responsible for the collision, as he could have backed out of it. Verstappen was notably more circumspect around him afterwards, IIRC. Perhaps we'll find out which it was in the eventual book We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
MarkwG said:
Byker28i said:
Strictly speaking the onboards showed Lewis was level alongside going into the corner, Max tried braking later and cutting off Lewis but heading for the apex, but hadn't fully cleared Lewis. You see it the moment he turned the wheel trying to squeeze Lewis as he's done for several laps/corners before, but Lewis was level this time and didn't back out as before, thinking Max would give him space. Hence why many think the Hamilton penalty was wrong, but accepted the stewards decision.
We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
I agree with your analysis, but don't think Hamilton thought Verstappen would give him space: I think it's more like he'd had enough of Verstappens "move or we crash" attitude, so called him on it, & so into the cat litter he went. Not malicious, just "if you play hard, I play hard" racing, but no argument from me with the stewards decision, they held Hamilton mostly responsible for the collision, as he could have backed out of it. Verstappen was notably more circumspect around him afterwards, IIRC. Perhaps we'll find out which it was in the eventual book We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
MarkwG said:
Byker28i said:
Strictly speaking the onboards showed Lewis was level alongside going into the corner, Max tried braking later and cutting off Lewis but heading for the apex, but hadn't fully cleared Lewis. You see it the moment he turned the wheel trying to squeeze Lewis as he's done for several laps/corners before, but Lewis was level this time and didn't back out as before, thinking Max would give him space. Hence why many think the Hamilton penalty was wrong, but accepted the stewards decision.
We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
I agree with your analysis, but don't think Hamilton thought Verstappen would give him space: I think it's more like he'd had enough of Verstappens "move or we crash" attitude, so called him on it, & so into the cat litter he went. Not malicious, just "if you play hard, I play hard" racing, but no argument from me with the stewards decision, they held Hamilton mostly responsible for the collision, as he could have backed out of it. Verstappen was notably more circumspect around him afterwards, IIRC. Perhaps we'll find out which it was in the eventual book We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
However, my post was just to point out that the stewards did apportion blame to Max as well though in my view Max was wholly to blame!
PhilAsia said:
MarkwG said:
Byker28i said:
Strictly speaking the onboards showed Lewis was level alongside going into the corner, Max tried braking later and cutting off Lewis but heading for the apex, but hadn't fully cleared Lewis. You see it the moment he turned the wheel trying to squeeze Lewis as he's done for several laps/corners before, but Lewis was level this time and didn't back out as before, thinking Max would give him space. Hence why many think the Hamilton penalty was wrong, but accepted the stewards decision.
We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
I agree with your analysis, but don't think Hamilton thought Verstappen would give him space: I think it's more like he'd had enough of Verstappens "move or we crash" attitude, so called him on it, & so into the cat litter he went. Not malicious, just "if you play hard, I play hard" racing, but no argument from me with the stewards decision, they held Hamilton mostly responsible for the collision, as he could have backed out of it. Verstappen was notably more circumspect around him afterwards, IIRC. Perhaps we'll find out which it was in the eventual book We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
MarkwG said:
PhilAsia said:
MarkwG said:
Byker28i said:
Strictly speaking the onboards showed Lewis was level alongside going into the corner, Max tried braking later and cutting off Lewis but heading for the apex, but hadn't fully cleared Lewis. You see it the moment he turned the wheel trying to squeeze Lewis as he's done for several laps/corners before, but Lewis was level this time and didn't back out as before, thinking Max would give him space. Hence why many think the Hamilton penalty was wrong, but accepted the stewards decision.
We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
I agree with your analysis, but don't think Hamilton thought Verstappen would give him space: I think it's more like he'd had enough of Verstappens "move or we crash" attitude, so called him on it, & so into the cat litter he went. Not malicious, just "if you play hard, I play hard" racing, but no argument from me with the stewards decision, they held Hamilton mostly responsible for the collision, as he could have backed out of it. Verstappen was notably more circumspect around him afterwards, IIRC. Perhaps we'll find out which it was in the eventual book We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
The onboards of Silverstone 21 show two drivers all but neck and neck heading into possibly the fastest corner on the calendar. It was proper motor racing, and no penalty was needed. None at Monza same year either imo.
No penalties would have been awarded in past decades, only in this modern Disney/Netflix era is it where penalties are discussed as much as the racing. Probably more than the racing in fact.
No penalties would have been awarded in past decades, only in this modern Disney/Netflix era is it where penalties are discussed as much as the racing. Probably more than the racing in fact.
Piginapoke said:
I’ve never really got past Singapore 2008, I can’t believe Alonso didn’t know about it.
If you can find the footage of when Alonso and Briatore meet immediately after the race, before the podium ceremony iirc, you can see that Alonso is immediately open about it being the crash that got him the win, he's completely open about it. I think he would have kept quiet had he been involved. With something like that, I think there's no need to tell anyone who doesn't need to know.
heebeegeetee said:
Piginapoke said:
I’ve never really got past Singapore 2008, I can’t believe Alonso didn’t know about it.
If you can find the footage of when Alonso and Briatore meet immediately after the race, before the podium ceremony iirc, you can see that Alonso is immediately open about it being the crash that got him the win, he's completely open about it. I think he would have kept quiet had he been involved. With something like that, I think there's no need to tell anyone who doesn't need to know.
Orchardab said:
MarkwG said:
PhilAsia said:
MarkwG said:
Byker28i said:
Strictly speaking the onboards showed Lewis was level alongside going into the corner, Max tried braking later and cutting off Lewis but heading for the apex, but hadn't fully cleared Lewis. You see it the moment he turned the wheel trying to squeeze Lewis as he's done for several laps/corners before, but Lewis was level this time and didn't back out as before, thinking Max would give him space. Hence why many think the Hamilton penalty was wrong, but accepted the stewards decision.
We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
I agree with your analysis, but don't think Hamilton thought Verstappen would give him space: I think it's more like he'd had enough of Verstappens "move or we crash" attitude, so called him on it, & so into the cat litter he went. Not malicious, just "if you play hard, I play hard" racing, but no argument from me with the stewards decision, they held Hamilton mostly responsible for the collision, as he could have backed out of it. Verstappen was notably more circumspect around him afterwards, IIRC. Perhaps we'll find out which it was in the eventual book We didn't accept whinger Horny spice claiming Lewis had tried to kill Max
heebeegeetee said:
Piginapoke said:
I’ve never really got past Singapore 2008, I can’t believe Alonso didn’t know about it.
If you can find the footage of when Alonso and Briatore meet immediately after the race, before the podium ceremony iirc, you can see that Alonso is immediately open about it being the crash that got him the win, he's completely open about it. I think he would have kept quiet had he been involved. With something like that, I think there's no need to tell anyone who doesn't need to know.
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