Official 2024 Chinese Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[vaud]

honda_exige said:

RBRs pit team worth a mention today - 2 double stacks and the times were 2.1, 2.0, 2.0 and 1.9.

The 2nd stops might be the fastest double stack of all time apparently.

Love them or hate them (and I don't follow any single team or driver) it is pretty impressive to see a team at the absolute top of their game, much like peak Mercedes, Ferrari and McLaren in their respective eras.

[paulguitar]

Petrus1983 said:

Don't get me wrong - he's a great driver and seems like a nice bloke. He doesn't seem to have that killer/arrogance about him that I've seen in other world champions - the only ones would be Nico Rosberg and Jenson Button who managed to be half non killer and win a championship.

I think Nico definitely developed the killer instinct. Look at the stunt he pulled at Monaco in quali. A full 'Schumacher'!

[Muzzer79]

Petrus1983 said:

Daniel Ricciardo seems a likeable enough chap - but for me his time in F1 needs to come to an end. I think for a mid field driver (yes, mid field) his manager has done an awesome job at getting him some very well paid positions. But now it seems a bit unfair to keep Lawson away from showing what he can do.

Ricciardo needs to buck his ideas up

But I would argue that midfield drivers don’t generally out-perform 4 time world champions in the same car and win 8 races.

[Blib]

A great drive from Lando, after a less than optimal sprint.

He really does seem to be the real deal.

I enjoyed his dismissal of his head mechanic's engine brake suggestion.

[Jasandjules]

Are we really not mentioning Alonso's save?!?!? That was all kinds of awesome and I bet Carlos will be watchin the onboards!!

[isaldiri]

Petrus1983 said:

Don't get me wrong - he's a great driver and seems like a nice bloke. He doesn't seem to have that killer/arrogance about him that I've seen in other world champions - the only ones would be Nico Rosberg and Jenson Button who managed to be half non killer and win a championship.

You mean he was a very good driver a long time ago. His time at Renault was decent enough rather than especially impressive (especially given the hype of his move) and the less said about his time at Mclaren the better. I certainly wouldn't think anything that he has done for years would qualify him as 'a great driver' today.....

[Hustle_]

Muzzer79 said:

Petrus1983 said:

Daniel Ricciardo seems a likeable enough chap - but for me his time in F1 needs to come to an end. I think for a mid field driver (yes, mid field) his manager has done an awesome job at getting him some very well paid positions. But now it seems a bit unfair to keep Lawson away from showing what he can do.

Ricciardo needs to buck his ideas up

First weekend in the new chassis and he was going rather well until he got Stroll’d. I hope he can channel that frustration and come back swinging in Miami. Obviously the benefit of the doubt has worn through during his McLaren years but I still want to see more from him in that new tub. I still think he’s a superior driver to Perez. Also Red Bull have no plans to promote Tsunoda- so there are two drivers I’d rather see leave the Red Bull stable for another team.

[TheDeuce]

Jasandjules said:

Are we really not mentioning Alonso's save?!?!? That was all kinds of awesome and I bet Carlos will be watchin the onboards!!

Alonso is a fantastic driver but... Today he got lucky after pushing too far. It wasn't skill that saved him, it was that he only went 99% into disaster instead of 100%!


He'll most certainly be having words with himself following that one, there's no way he planned to take the car so far into the gravel.

[Forester1965]

I think Alonso is overrated. I like his enthusiasm for racing and his cerebral approach, but ultimately for all his scheming it hasn't got him anywhere. His reputation relies on Michelin being better than Bridgestone. That and blackmailing Ron Dennis and insulting Honda.

Good driver but not a great one.

[TheDeuce]

Forester1965 said:

I think Alonso is overrated. I like his enthusiasm for racing and his cerebral approach, but ultimately for all his scheming it hasn't got him anywhere. His reputation relies on Michelin being better than Bridgestone. That and blackmailing Ron Dennis and insulting Honda.

Good driver but not a great one.

I have to disagree. I think with a few tweaks to fortune and perhaps a few tweaks to his attitude... In an alternative universe he could very easily have been an all time great F1 driver. His politics are questionable and probably haven't helped his career - but as a talent, he's as good as the greats imo.

[Forester1965]

That's kind of the point. His attitude and arrogance have let him down. Ended up in the wrong teams at the wrong time as a result.

[skwdenyer]

StevieBee said:

Sandpit Steve said:

cuprabob said:

If Liam Lawson replaces him, doesn’t it mean he will get the 3 place penalty?

No, as it was a driver behaviour penalty.

The penalties that do carry to another driver are the reliability penalties, e.g. for using too many engines.

I think I'm right in saying that a driver carries over penalties to any other FIA sanctioned races during the year. So if Danny was dropped before the next race but landed a drive in Formula E, he'd serve that penalty there. I think!

Interesting. What count as "FIA sanctioned races"? Given the stakes in F1, surely it has to be worth getting DR an entry for another race next weekend just to serve a penalty?

[TheDeuce]

skwdenyer said:

StevieBee said:

Sandpit Steve said:

cuprabob said:

If Liam Lawson replaces him, doesn’t it mean he will get the 3 place penalty?

No, as it was a driver behaviour penalty.

The penalties that do carry to another driver are the reliability penalties, e.g. for using too many engines.

I think I'm right in saying that a driver carries over penalties to any other FIA sanctioned races during the year. So if Danny was dropped before the next race but landed a drive in Formula E, he'd serve that penalty there. I think!

Interesting. What count as "FIA sanctioned races"? Given the stakes in F1, surely it has to be worth getting DR an entry for another race next weekend just to serve a penalty?

For several reasons that's not realistic - but it's quite amusing to consider that he could technically serve a penalty in a different formula series

[TheDeuce]

Forester1965 said:

That's kind of the point. His attitude and arrogance have let him down. Ended up in the wrong teams at the wrong time as a result.

I don't disagree - but for every racer that's fallen by the sword of arrogance, we have another that's benefitted.

Luck and circumstance play a huge part in all racers careers, in fact... All careers full stop.

[Derek Smith]

TheDeuce said:

Forester1965 said:

I think Alonso is overrated. I like his enthusiasm for racing and his cerebral approach, but ultimately for all his scheming it hasn't got him anywhere. His reputation relies on Michelin being better than Bridgestone. That and blackmailing Ron Dennis and insulting Honda.

Good driver but not a great one.

I have to disagree. I think with a few tweaks to fortune and perhaps a few tweaks to his attitude... In an alternative universe he could very easily have been an all time great F1 driver. His politics are questionable and probably haven't helped his career - but as a talent, he's as good as the greats imo.

I view him as similar to Piquet. Both tremendously naturally talented, with Piquet edging it, but both talents were wasted to an extent due to their own actions. Alonso allowed his emotions, and belief he should be treated as special, get in the way. He could have had lots more WDCs, and should have. The same with Piquet. Both drove their best in the latter section of their careers. Both seemed to go walkabout at times.

I can sympathise to an extent. He is one of the greats, but thinks he should be treated as such.

Alonso is one of the fastest drivers on the grid, but only when he applies himself. Piquet the same, except he drove his best at Benetton when he was getting paid per point. Some say it is a shame for the pair of them, but I reckon they both add a bit of pathos to the sport.

Seeing Alonso in the AM makes me think of what might have been. He seems driven now, although with little drifts back to his old style. It's always a shame to see talent wasted, and despite his WDCs, Alonso will, at least in my mind, conjure the feeling of what might have been, had it not been for his conceit.

[PhilAsia]

TheDeuce said:

honda_exige said:

Danny Ricc has got a 3 place penalty for the next race and 2 points because as he was rammed, Hulk passed him so he then retook his rightful position was was deemed to be an overtake under SC conditions.

Unbelievable for this to effectively be more severely sanctioned than that worthless prick Stroll.

Wow... Even by F1 standards that's fked up.

He'd just been driven into whilst trying his very best to avoid contact with the car in front, and his car was mortally wounded as a result, putting him out of the race. Against that sequence of events the overtake is irrelevant, it really could have just been ignored.

Wistfully recalls an AD21 "overtake under SC conditions" that seemed to be acceptable to some... Oh well...

[Mr Tidy]

honda_exige said:

Danny Ricc has got a 3 place penalty for the next race and 2 points because as he was rammed, Hulk passed him so he then retook his rightful position was was deemed to be an overtake under SC conditions.

Unbelievable for this to effectively be more severely sanctioned than that worthless prick Stroll.

That is madness!

Give Danny a 10 second penalty if they feel they have to be seen to do something.

Stroll is only there because of Daddy. Perez is only there because of the money he brings, and because he isn't a threat to Max.

Plenty of action though, even if it wasn't at the front.

But Lando was impressive, and George did better than Lewis - again! Probably mainly because Alonso didn't manage to catch up with him.

[Leithen]

Derek Smith said:

I view him as similar to Piquet. Both tremendously naturally talented, with Piquet edging it, but both talents were wasted to an extent due to their own actions. Alonso allowed his emotions, and belief he should be treated as special, get in the way. He could have had lots more WDCs, and should have. The same with Piquet. Both drove their best in the latter section of their careers. Both seemed to go walkabout at times.

Piquet was at his best in '83 and never entirely recovered from his '87 crash at Imola. His results for Benetton were a testament to how good he was regardless.

Alonso is a far more rounded driver, and I'd argue the better of the two. But unreliability and bravery, with a large dose of accompanying madness, were the hallmarks of the '80s and it is so hard to compare with today.

[StevieBee]

skwdenyer said:

StevieBee said:

Sandpit Steve said:

cuprabob said:

If Liam Lawson replaces him, doesn’t it mean he will get the 3 place penalty?

No, as it was a driver behaviour penalty.

The penalties that do carry to another driver are the reliability penalties, e.g. for using too many engines.

I think I'm right in saying that a driver carries over penalties to any other FIA sanctioned races during the year. So if Danny was dropped before the next race but landed a drive in Formula E, he'd serve that penalty there. I think!

Interesting. What count as "FIA sanctioned races"? Given the stakes in F1, surely it has to be worth getting DR an entry for another race next weekend just to serve a penalty?

Generally speaking, any championship with the word 'World' in the title.

The main ones are: F1, F2, F3, FE, WEC, WRC, WRXC. You then have Historic Masters, GT World Cup, TCR, Truck Racing, Drag racing, Intercontinental Drifting Cup, There are a dozen or so regional race and rally series too.

Would serve no purpose shipping him off to another series for the sole purpose of serving a three place (or time-converted) penalty and the logistics of doing so would negate any slight advantage it would afford.

[thegreenhell]

The specific wording of the penalty is that Car 3 will serve a penalty the next time the driver races. This seems to imply that it's specifically this car and driver combination that is penalised, or this driver in this series since he carries his number with him if he changes teams, not this driver in some other car somewhere else.