Given up

[DOCG]

I gave up in 2014 when they introduced the turbocharged lawnmower engines, hats off to anyone who has lasted through the Liberty Media ****show on carpark street circuits.

[Eric Mc]

thegreenhell said:

I'm still obsessed with cars and motorsport, and spent most of last weekend glued to the Goodwood MM livestream .

Same here. It was marvelous background viewing whilst undertaking some tedious household chores.

[rallycross]

Eric Mc said:

thegreenhell said:

I'm still obsessed with cars and motorsport, and spent most of last weekend glued to the Goodwood MM livestream .

Same here. It was marvelous background viewing whilst undertaking some tedious household chores.

Same here was great to watch the members meeting have been to revival and festivals at Goodwood last weekend was amazing racing .

[Harry H]

I'm still watching every race but each time I feel F1 is becoming more of a show than a sport.

It's the American way I suppose so I'm struggling more and more each season. I doubt there's many more seasons for me unless things change.

I do like Martins Grid Walk though as it emphasises how fake it all is.

[Hustle_]

Martin has reverence for the machines, the teams and the drivers. He pokes fun at the slebs. That's why he's so bang on.

[Sandpit Steve]

Hustle_ said:

Martin has reverence for the machines, the teams and the drivers. He pokes fun at the slebs. That's why he's so bang on.

It’s still amazing that the guests, especially the American guests, don’t get a proper briefing about being on the grid. It only needs to be two lines long.

1. You can’t buy the grid experience, it’s literally not for sale at any price and only available to guests. You’re in a very privileged position to be there.

2. There’s an old English guy with a microphone walking round, he’s a very big deal, spent a decade as an F1 driver and has an audience of hundreds of millions of people around the world. If he asks you a question, have a reply ready to go, don’t be dismissive of him unless you want to go viral and not in a good way. If you want to know why, see point 1 above.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Eric Mc said:

thegreenhell said:

I'm still obsessed with cars and motorsport, and spent most of last weekend glued to the Goodwood MM livestream .

Same here. It was marvelous background viewing whilst undertaking some tedious household chores.

I love the classic F1 car racing at Monaco. My word they really do go for it!

[blackmme]

Sandpit Steve said:

It’s still amazing that the guests, especially the American guests, don’t get a proper briefing about being on the grid. It only needs to be two lines long.

1. You can’t buy the grid experience, it’s literally not for sale at any price and only available to guests. You’re in a very privileged position to be there.

2. There’s an old English guy with a microphone walking round, he’s a very big deal, spent a decade as an F1 driver and has an audience of hundreds of millions of people around the world. If he asks you a question, have a reply ready to go, don’t be dismissive of him unless you want to go viral and not in a good way. If you want to know why, see point 1 above.

Trouble is a good proportion of the Celeb's (but certainly not all) think they are the most important thing in the Universe let alone the particular Country or City they in. So on those points:

1. F1 is incredibly lucky to have ME (ME, ME, ME) here.
2. I'm the only big deal here and my security will take care of it.

I've met a few and trust me that is the mindset of the ones who come off looking like arsehats (plus possibly drugs as well)

[oyster]

Muzzer79 said:

Sadly, F1 has gone from one period of domination to another in the 21st century. Maybe this is one too far.

We had Mercedes before now, Red Bull prior to that, Ferrari prior to that.

It seems that just as the rules make the teams converge and things get exciting, they change the rules again and one team dominates.

How many good, exciting seasons have we had in the 2000s?

I'd only pick out

2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2021 (save for the last race)

This is not a Red Bull/Mercedes thing. F1 is in danger of being what WRC was from 2004 onwards - domination to the point of boredom, meaning people switch off. If people switch off, manufacturers aren't interested and pull out.

2000 Hakkinen & Schumacher title fight
2003 Schumacher, Kimi, Montoya 3-way title fight
2012 Alonso & Vettel title fight to the last race
2014 Hamilton, Rosberg to the last race
2016 Hamilton Rosberg
2017 Vettel vs Hamilton
2018 Vettel vs Hamilton

[Sandpit Steve]

blackmme said:

Sandpit Steve said:

It’s still amazing that the guests, especially the American guests, don’t get a proper briefing about being on the grid. It only needs to be two lines long.

1. You can’t buy the grid experience, it’s literally not for sale at any price and only available to guests. You’re in a very privileged position to be there.

2. There’s an old English guy with a microphone walking round, he’s a very big deal, spent a decade as an F1 driver and has an audience of hundreds of millions of people around the world. If he asks you a question, have a reply ready to go, don’t be dismissive of him unless you want to go viral and not in a good way. If you want to know why, see point 1 above.

Trouble is a good proportion of the Celeb's (but certainly not all) think they are the most important thing in the Universe let alone the particular Country or City they in. So on those points:

1. F1 is incredibly lucky to have ME (ME, ME, ME) here.
2. I'm the only big deal here and my security will take care of it.

I've met a few and trust me that is the mindset of the ones who come off looking like arsehats (plus possibly drugs as well)

Oh indeed, many of them have an over-inflated ego and sense of their own self-importance, and/or have been enjoying the hospitality a little too much beforehand!

[super7]

PhilAsia said:

Kart16 said:

Muzzer79 said:

The state of the sport has nothing to do with Verstappen or Hamilton.

Kevin Magnussen could be winning every race and it'd still be dull as hell.

Oh, I agree with you. But when the situation was the same with Hamilton, with the dominant split turbo engine, you British were not complaining ;-)

By the way, just look at the qualy lap gaps this year, they have been the smallest in the history of F1. Therefore, it shows the brilliance and outstanding talent of Verstappen.

Edited by Kart16 on Wednesday 17th April 09:20

No, it often shows he sets his car up for the race, not qualy, such is its dominance.

I am sure Kart16 is actually Max!!

[entropy]

Sandpit Steve said:

blackmme said:

Sandpit Steve said:

It’s still amazing that the guests, especially the American guests, don’t get a proper briefing about being on the grid. It only needs to be two lines long.

1. You can’t buy the grid experience, it’s literally not for sale at any price and only available to guests. You’re in a very privileged position to be there.

2. There’s an old English guy with a microphone walking round, he’s a very big deal, spent a decade as an F1 driver and has an audience of hundreds of millions of people around the world. If he asks you a question, have a reply ready to go, don’t be dismissive of him unless you want to go viral and not in a good way. If you want to know why, see point 1 above.

Trouble is a good proportion of the Celeb's (but certainly not all) think they are the most important thing in the Universe let alone the particular Country or City they in. So on those points:

1. F1 is incredibly lucky to have ME (ME, ME, ME) here.
2. I'm the only big deal here and my security will take care of it.

I've met a few and trust me that is the mindset of the ones who come off looking like arsehats (plus possibly drugs as well)

Oh indeed, many of them have an over-inflated ego and sense of their own self-importance, and/or have been enjoying the hospitality a little too much beforehand!

Attending F1 is their own leisure time. When a celeb talks to the media it's usually because they have something to promote.

Gate-keeping attitude isn't healthy. All it does is please only the dinosaurs who will eventually die off. F1 has a generation who like the powertrains, DRS, and yes even Crofty - go on reddit, I've spoken to engineering students who say he's their Murray Walker for their generation.

[entropy]

Eric Mc said:

I mentioned in a previous thread that one fundamental difference between F1 now and F1 in previous decades is that the teams are no longer owned and run by their founders.

And that situation will never happen again - especially now that the current teams seem so antagonistic to any new outfits being allowed to join "the circus".

I think when a team (or any business for that matter) is still being run by its founder, there is a spirit and ethos (not always a wholesome ethos) about how it goes about things. Once the founder has departed the scene (which inevitably occurs in all walks of life) that spirit and ethos largely fades away and the whole thing becomes very much more corporate and financially driven.

That's where F1 is now and it is highly unlikely that we will ever have teams run and managed in the individualistic (and sometimes eccentric and erratic) styles we had in days gone by. And that certainly does make it a lot less interesting - to me at least.

Some out-stayed their welcome, Frank Williams for instance thought too much of Williams Grand Prix Engineering as his baby rather than as a competitive race team; Ron Dennis's second coming at McLaren was a disaster.

The other thing is F1 teams are far, far too large with too many toys and data to play which and has meant role of Team Principle is just another managerial position given to technocrats.

[tele_lover]

F1 will always struggle for close racing because it's unlikely 10 teams produce completely different cars which have similar performance.

I would separate drivers and constructors championships. Drivers use identical cars. Constructors use the current cars. However, the drivers races would be so close/interesting it would soon over-shadow the constructors.

In short, without BoP different hardware will always be boring.

Constructors championship would make more sense over a shorter race duration. A qualification shootout style of competition.

Edited by tele_lover on Thursday 18th April 19:03

[Wills2]

entropy said:

Some out-stayed their welcome, Frank Williams for instance thought too much of Williams Grand Prix Engineering as his baby rather than as a competitive race team; Ron Dennis's second coming at McLaren was a disaster.

The other thing is F1 teams are far, far too large with too many toys and data to play which and has meant role of Team Principle is just another managerial position given to technocrats.

It's an interesting point are the data crunchers getting further away from what the nut behind the wheel needs, I think we saw that with the Mercedes zero pod car Lewis kept saying it's not working yet they persisted probably pointing to the data but that's not real life, I think it's true that Newey pens his designs by hand to start with which is telling given the advantage they have over the others, they might do that as well I suppose.

[tele_lover]

Wills2 said:

entropy said:

Some out-stayed their welcome, Frank Williams for instance thought too much of Williams Grand Prix Engineering as his baby rather than as a competitive race team; Ron Dennis's second coming at McLaren was a disaster.

The other thing is F1 teams are far, far too large with too many toys and data to play which and has meant role of Team Principle is just another managerial position given to technocrats.

It's an interesting point are the data crunchers getting further away from what the nut behind the wheel needs, I think we saw that with the Mercedes zero pod car Lewis kept saying it's not working yet they persisted probably pointing to the data but that's not real life, I think it's true that Newey pens his designs by hand to start with which is telling given the advantage they have over the others, they might do that as well I suppose.

I'm not sure Newey penning a design has any comparison with Mercedes not listening to driver feedback, it's just an alternative to CAD.

Edited by tele_lover on Thursday 18th April 22:14

[entropy]

Wills2 said:

It's an interesting point are the data crunchers getting further away from what the nut behind the wheel needs, I think we saw that with the Mercedes zero pod car Lewis kept saying it's not working yet they persisted probably pointing to the data but that's not real life, I think it's true that Newey pens his designs by hand to start with which is telling given the advantage they have over the others, they might do that as well I suppose.

It's a perennial problem because F1 cars are prototypes and there will always be something to test and fine tune.

Newey isn't perfect. There's the MP4-18 that was tested but never raced as intended in 2003. Quick, but unreliable deathtrap. Newey wanted to persist with it and eventually Ron had to call off on it and this was when testing was more liberal than today. Still a massively influential car - it's the mother for RBR's success featuring narrow sidepods (for its time), narrow coke bottle, low narrow nose, blown diffuser.

[isaldiri]

tele_lover said:

[
I'm not sure Newey penning a design has any comparison with Mercedes not listening to driver feedback, it's just an alternative to CAD.

Merc's issues come from not being able to get their aero philosophy to work rather than not listening to driver feedback because all the driver feedback in the world isn't going to change something that fundamentally has a problem. The car was/is slow and not working as planned, driver feedback wasn't ever going to be able to change whether the geeks were ever going to figure things out and it was up to the head honchos rather than the drivers to be deciding whether to give up on the whole idea.

[Forester1965]

Mercedes' performance now reminds me of McLaren post Newey, chasing maximum theoretical downforce ahead of usability, allied to poor correlation of virtual tools to reality. I bet a certain L Hamilton also remembers that time and it's factored into his decision of where to drive next year.

[tele_lover]

isaldiri said:

tele_lover said:

[
I'm not sure Newey penning a design has any comparison with Mercedes not listening to driver feedback, it's just an alternative to CAD.

Merc's issues come from not being able to get their aero philosophy to work rather than not listening to driver feedback because all the driver feedback in the world isn't going to change something that fundamentally has a problem. The car was/is slow and not working as planned, driver feedback wasn't ever going to be able to change whether the geeks were ever going to figure things out and it was up to the head honchos rather than the drivers to be deciding whether to give up on the whole idea.

I was just referring to the point someone made about Mercedes ignoring Lewis' feedback.

Edited by tele_lover on Thursday 18th April 23:31