RE: Silverstone Sunday Service 11/10
Discussion
Many thanks for a great morning and arranging the weather!
I had a great time finishing off running in my RS and the standard of driving was perfectly acceptable. It was organised well and the rules were explained quite succinctly at the briefing. We all have to accept that there are several levels of skill and this is not one of the days where it's advisable to pick holes in people's ability. There are many TDO's who can take your money and have professional drivers that will teach you how to improve and hone your skills.
BTW great pictures!!
alexmac said:
Many thanks for a great morning and arranging the weather!
I had a great time finishing off running in my RS and the standard of driving was perfectly acceptable. It was organised well and the rules were explained quite succinctly at the briefing. We all have to accept that there are several levels of skill and this is not one of the days where it's advisable to pick holes in people's ability. There are many TDO's who can take your money and have professional drivers that will teach you how to improve and hone your skills.
BTW great pictures!!
Took me ages to get a photo of you as you were driving too fast!I had a great time finishing off running in my RS and the standard of driving was perfectly acceptable. It was organised well and the rules were explained quite succinctly at the briefing. We all have to accept that there are several levels of skill and this is not one of the days where it's advisable to pick holes in people's ability. There are many TDO's who can take your money and have professional drivers that will teach you how to improve and hone your skills.
BTW great pictures!!
My 2p worth from the 1045 session...
I generally thought the standard of driving was pretty good. TBH, if mine wasn't the only observation on the TT then perhaps I stand by my spoken comments on the video rather than my captioned comments though. We'd all slowed down waiting for a chance to overtake, as you do on the road, and queue jumping is bad form. Also, if you are really stacked up close going into a corner and someone's DOT4 is boiled or they spin, it's not going to be pretty!
I do wonder if more "levels" might help though. I'm not trying to sound like a "driving god", I'm not, as my video, faults and all, will attest to, but perhaps if there were three levels such as total beginner, novice and intermediate, that would be better. A "total beginner" session might provide an even more relaxed environment for people who perhaps just want the experience of gently pootling round the track with minimal overtaking and not pushing the car hard at all. Even with my limited skill and modest power of a Boxster, I was still catching some cars at quite some closing speed which could be quite alarming for them I guess, in much the same way as had I been out on track when the CGT/GT3 boys were on it, I would have probably cacked it and scurried off to the pits. I'd not put myself in the upper group of two, but I would have been happy in the middle group of three.
Timing was about right...my car was pretty much cooked after the 28 minutes and had we not got chequered flagged I probably would have stopped anyway as my brakes were getting really scary. Certainly no longer please!
I'd also say having a brave friend as a co-driver is really good as a newbie. If you're not used to being on track, like me, it's reassuring to have someone who can see that left mirror and also spot any lights/hazards etc. It also makes it more of a laugh!
I have to say though, had it been wet, I would have just kissed goodbye to my forty quid and stayed in the paddock...
I generally thought the standard of driving was pretty good. TBH, if mine wasn't the only observation on the TT then perhaps I stand by my spoken comments on the video rather than my captioned comments though. We'd all slowed down waiting for a chance to overtake, as you do on the road, and queue jumping is bad form. Also, if you are really stacked up close going into a corner and someone's DOT4 is boiled or they spin, it's not going to be pretty!
I do wonder if more "levels" might help though. I'm not trying to sound like a "driving god", I'm not, as my video, faults and all, will attest to, but perhaps if there were three levels such as total beginner, novice and intermediate, that would be better. A "total beginner" session might provide an even more relaxed environment for people who perhaps just want the experience of gently pootling round the track with minimal overtaking and not pushing the car hard at all. Even with my limited skill and modest power of a Boxster, I was still catching some cars at quite some closing speed which could be quite alarming for them I guess, in much the same way as had I been out on track when the CGT/GT3 boys were on it, I would have probably cacked it and scurried off to the pits. I'd not put myself in the upper group of two, but I would have been happy in the middle group of three.
Timing was about right...my car was pretty much cooked after the 28 minutes and had we not got chequered flagged I probably would have stopped anyway as my brakes were getting really scary. Certainly no longer please!
I'd also say having a brave friend as a co-driver is really good as a newbie. If you're not used to being on track, like me, it's reassuring to have someone who can see that left mirror and also spot any lights/hazards etc. It also makes it more of a laugh!
I have to say though, had it been wet, I would have just kissed goodbye to my forty quid and stayed in the paddock...
alexmac said:
Many thanks for a great morning and arranging the weather!
I had a great time finishing off running in my RS and the standard of driving was perfectly acceptable. It was organised well and the rules were explained quite succinctly at the briefing. We all have to accept that there are several levels of skill and this is not one of the days where it's advisable to pick holes in people's ability. There are many TDO's who can take your money and have professional drivers that will teach you how to improve and hone your skills.
BTW great pictures!!
I watched your laps in the 991 RS from 9am, I have one due Nov and not seen one on track until Sunday. You annihilated the CGT and Speciale from where i was watching, not bad for running in! I had a great time finishing off running in my RS and the standard of driving was perfectly acceptable. It was organised well and the rules were explained quite succinctly at the briefing. We all have to accept that there are several levels of skill and this is not one of the days where it's advisable to pick holes in people's ability. There are many TDO's who can take your money and have professional drivers that will teach you how to improve and hone your skills.
BTW great pictures!!
Edited by GT3ZZZ on Monday 12th October 19:11
Hard-Drive said:
I do wonder if more "levels" might help though.....perhaps if there were three levels such as total beginner, novice and intermediate, that would be better. ............I'd not put myself in the upper group of two, but I would have been happy in the middle group of three.
...
That sounds like a really good idea....
GT3ZZZ said:
alexmac said:
Many thanks for a great morning and arranging the weather!
I had a great time finishing off running in my RS and the standard of driving was perfectly acceptable. It was organised well and the rules were explained quite succinctly at the briefing. We all have to accept that there are several levels of skill and this is not one of the days where it's advisable to pick holes in people's ability. There are many TDO's who can take your money and have professional drivers that will teach you how to improve and hone your skills.
BTW great pictures!!
I watched your laps in the 991 RS from 9am, I have one due Nov and not seen one on track until Sunday. You annihilated the CGT and Speciale from where i was watching, not bad for running in! I had a great time finishing off running in my RS and the standard of driving was perfectly acceptable. It was organised well and the rules were explained quite succinctly at the briefing. We all have to accept that there are several levels of skill and this is not one of the days where it's advisable to pick holes in people's ability. There are many TDO's who can take your money and have professional drivers that will teach you how to improve and hone your skills.
BTW great pictures!!
Edited by GT3ZZZ on Monday 12th October 19:11
I have to say, the CGT's 10 cylinder howl was probably my favorite engine sound of all time, however it actually seemed a little quiet compared to the RS!
A privilege to be able to get up close and personal to such machinery at speed!
Ollie_M said:
Our pleasure, we have actually been practising our parking supervision skills recently... 
Regarding the other half just let me know if it continues to be a problem let me know as we find that our stickers have a multitude of uses.
Regarding the other half just let me know if it continues to be a problem let me know as we find that our stickers have a multitude of uses.
MikeO996 said:
Great idea in theory, but change the format. As above, one off sessions with a vast range of cars, abilities and attitudes doesn't work.
Join up with one of the more sensible trackday organisers, take it somewhere novice friendly (Bedford is the obvious choice) and run it as a full day, with properly policed novice, intermediate and expert groups, at least to start off the day.
Not easy to organise, but it is going to end in tears eventually...the 'experienced' drivers don't seem to consider the risk they are taking and I bet they would be the first to complain if there was an accident. More levels seems like a sensible solution.Join up with one of the more sensible trackday organisers, take it somewhere novice friendly (Bedford is the obvious choice) and run it as a full day, with properly policed novice, intermediate and expert groups, at least to start off the day.
Edited by CaptainRAVE on Monday 12th October 19:33
Craikeybaby said:
smithyithy said:
I will say, from a spectators point of view, it wasn't always easy to tell whether it was the novice or inter session that was in hand.
I was expecting to see novice sessions at a gentler pace, and inter at a noticeably quicker one with better racing lines etc.
But there seemed to be a mix of speeds and skills in both groups - maybe that was part of the issue?
Still looked good fun though, wish I could've taken my Mini on for a session
It was difficult to tell from in the car too! I'd
booked my wife on the novice session at 11:55 because she's a novice - never driven on track before.
I mistakenly thought that the driving would be less aggressive than a
normal session with people having paid attention in the briefing and not overtaking in corners etc.
However there were a number of times when we were overtaken on the outside of Copse and the inside of Brooklands. I was expecting to see novice sessions at a gentler pace, and inter at a noticeably quicker one with better racing lines etc.
But there seemed to be a mix of speeds and skills in both groups - maybe that was part of the issue?
Still looked good fun though, wish I could've taken my Mini on for a session
MikeO996 said:
Hard-Drive said:
I do wonder if more "levels" might help though.....perhaps if there were three levels such as total beginner, novice and intermediate, that would be better.
............I'd not put myself in the upper group of two, but I would have been happy in the middle group of three.
...
That sounds like a really good idea....
Hard-Drive said:
GT3ZZZ said:
alexmac said:
Many thanks for a great morning and arranging the weather!
I had a great time finishing off running in my RS and the standard of driving was perfectly acceptable. It was organised well and the rules were explained quite succinctly at the briefing. We all have to accept that there are several levels of skill and this is not one of the days where it's advisable to pick holes in people's ability. There are many TDO's who can take your money and have professional drivers that will teach you how to improve and hone your skills.
BTW great pictures!!
I watched your laps in the 991 RS from 9am, I have one due Nov and not seen one on track until Sunday. You annihilated the CGT and Speciale from where i was watching, not bad for running in! I had a great time finishing off running in my RS and the standard of driving was perfectly acceptable. It was organised well and the rules were explained quite succinctly at the briefing. We all have to accept that there are several levels of skill and this is not one of the days where it's advisable to pick holes in people's ability. There are many TDO's who can take your money and have professional drivers that will teach you how to improve and hone your skills.
BTW great pictures!!
Edited by GT3ZZZ on Monday 12th October 19:11
I have to say, the CGT's 10 cylinder howl was probably my favorite engine sound of all time, however it actually seemed a little quiet compared to the RS!
A privilege to be able to get up close and personal to such machinery at speed!
I appreciate what everyone's saying but it was a taster session end of the day and not a training session. If you signed up for the novice and felt comfortable to over take and drive fast then so be it. I was in the 9:30 novice because it was my first time on track and didn't know quite what to expect but was such a thrill! Most people would make way and didn't get into any trouble while I was near enough flat out the whole session. It's always good to have a bit of competition. Who was the guy in the red e46 m3 in the 9:30?
I think the format was spot on, the early session with 35 out on the track was in my opinion a good challenge - I know it wasn't a race but everyone was in a similar league, it took a lot to catch and pass a fair few but all of those I passed I only just got by some, then there was the revo golf and 1m which were quicker but I still didn't expect them to be in the class above and I'm not complaining about them being quicker which is the thing I'm presuming people are moaning at... The fact they got overtaken. The afternoon sessions had much quicker cars out but again don't think they should have been in the inter group. It's a fun day I don't get why there's people complaining.
Jacko22 said:
I think the format was spot on, the early session with 35 out on the track was in my opinion a good challenge - I know it wasn't a race but everyone was in a similar league, it took a lot to catch and pass a fair few but all of those I passed I only just got by some, then there was the revo golf and 1m which were quicker but I still didn't expect them to be in the class above and I'm not complaining about them being quicker which is the thing I'm presuming people are moaning at... The fact they got overtaken. The afternoon sessions had much quicker cars out but again don't think they should have been in the inter group. It's a fun day I don't get why there's people complaining.
Well said jacko. What car was you in?JD PH said:
The problem with this is that it limits the number of people who are able to have a go on track, and also pushes the price-per-person up quite high. We're absolutely open to running some PH specific trackdays, but I'd suggest that these would be in addition to the format we use at Silverstone - not instead of it.
Saying all that, going by the responses so far it seems to be widely regarded as a popular SS and for the most part it absolutely did work. Perhaps we're trying to fix a problem that isn't really a problem?
As ever though, we organise these events for the community - if a majority want something changed and its within our power, we'll endeavour to do it!
JD
I think what you've suggested there would be fantastic. EVO do a similar thing and I went to one at Bedford, it was a good relaxed atmosphere much like the SS meets. Saying all that, going by the responses so far it seems to be widely regarded as a popular SS and for the most part it absolutely did work. Perhaps we're trying to fix a problem that isn't really a problem?
As ever though, we organise these events for the community - if a majority want something changed and its within our power, we'll endeavour to do it!
JD
As for the SS, I thought it was brilliant. I've lived near Silverstone all my life, so it's nice to have something like this just down the road. As ever it was a professionally organised event in my opinion, and was a nice treat to see some nice motors giving it the beans on track. The Open pitlane meant I could take photos without needing a media pass too!
Craikeybaby said:
Yes, that was us. What were you driving?
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Jacko22 said:
I think the format was spot on, the early session with 35 out on the track was in my opinion a good challenge - I know it wasn't a race but everyone was in a similar league, it took a lot to catch and pass a fair few but all of those I passed I only just got by some, then there was the revo golf and 1m which were quicker but I still didn't expect them to be in the class above and I'm not complaining about them being quicker which is the thing I'm presuming people are moaning at... The fact they got overtaken. The afternoon sessions had much quicker cars out but again don't think they should have been in the inter group. It's a fun day I don't get why there's people complaining.
I'm not complaining about being overtaken - as you say, it wasn't a race. What I thought was a bit off was some drivers in the novice session overtaking on corners and forcing slower cars off line. It was made clear in the briefings overtaking was to be on the left and on the straights only. It is hard enough for novices to learn the racing line etc without having to worry about another car coming from behind trying to apex at the same time. I understand that sort of thing is acceptable on advanced trackdays such as RMA, but this was a session aimed at novices who hadn't driven on track before!Maybe we are being a little harsh, I wasn't on track so can only speak from what i observed rather than experienced.
Overall it was a great day, as far as SS's go, pretty damn perfect and I'd happily vote for more of these Silverstone ones as I think they cater to a good majority.
I think all that needs to be addressed on track is the perceived driving ability, and etiquette.
Three tiers might be beneficial just to further split up the ability groups and make it a bit easier going for everyone. I think we need to bear in mind even with tiered sessions, there can still be big differences in car types, and therefore speeds and lap times - someone with a 458 could be a complete track newbie and opt for the novice session despite owning a very fast supercar, whereas a well seasoned track veteran could opt for the advanced group in nothing faster than a Clio RS, because he knows how to drive a track.
So there will always be that vehicle differential even if everyone is in the correct ability / experience group. It's probably just something that can be improved slightly, but all that being said, we had no crashes and no post-session fisticuffs, which I think speaks really well for PH and everyone that attended.
P.S. One small thing my friend and I picked up on, and it's worth mentioning.. While spectating on the grass bank at Copse I believe, for a short while there was cannabis in the air. Now we've no problem with the stuff, but whoever was having a quick smoke should bear in mind - it's still illegal and it does carry certain connotations. It's not something that Silverstone staff want to be noticing while they're providing the venue for our use, nor is it something parents with young kids want to notice while walking around. Harmless as it is (in my view), there's a time and a place
Overall it was a great day, as far as SS's go, pretty damn perfect and I'd happily vote for more of these Silverstone ones as I think they cater to a good majority.
I think all that needs to be addressed on track is the perceived driving ability, and etiquette.
Three tiers might be beneficial just to further split up the ability groups and make it a bit easier going for everyone. I think we need to bear in mind even with tiered sessions, there can still be big differences in car types, and therefore speeds and lap times - someone with a 458 could be a complete track newbie and opt for the novice session despite owning a very fast supercar, whereas a well seasoned track veteran could opt for the advanced group in nothing faster than a Clio RS, because he knows how to drive a track.
So there will always be that vehicle differential even if everyone is in the correct ability / experience group. It's probably just something that can be improved slightly, but all that being said, we had no crashes and no post-session fisticuffs, which I think speaks really well for PH and everyone that attended.
P.S. One small thing my friend and I picked up on, and it's worth mentioning.. While spectating on the grass bank at Copse I believe, for a short while there was cannabis in the air. Now we've no problem with the stuff, but whoever was having a quick smoke should bear in mind - it's still illegal and it does carry certain connotations. It's not something that Silverstone staff want to be noticing while they're providing the venue for our use, nor is it something parents with young kids want to notice while walking around. Harmless as it is (in my view), there's a time and a place
Edited by smithyithy on Monday 12th October 21:22
3 tiers would be a lot better. 1 for newbies who have never been on track and not confident and would rather a more relaxed pace. 2 for novices or for people more confidence and 3 for experienced drivers. Even then there will always be someone moaning about something because you can't please everyone. I thought the majority of the day went pretty well. There will always be complications on a track.
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