Audi withdrawing from the WEC :(
Discussion
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport/audi-...
I can't say I'm really surprised, I did wonder whether this was the plan all along, slowly pull back and let the other company pull the spotlight, apparently they are phasing out diesel as their frontline tech ...
I can't say I'm really surprised, I did wonder whether this was the plan all along, slowly pull back and let the other company pull the spotlight, apparently they are phasing out diesel as their frontline tech ...
Maybe not a bad thing for sportscar racing?
Just got back from a PCGB Q and A session with Derek Bell, who was making the point that the current LMP1 regs are so expensive that it is not good for the sport. There are only 6 cars can win outright, and that deters sponsors from funding LMP2, GT3 ETC. Outside the petrolhead fraternity, the winners of the lower classes do not get any publicity, and apart from LM, No TV coverage.
All this hybrid techo is driven by politics, and is way above the heads of most of us. Apart from the super rich, how many reading this drive a "nice fast" hybrid - IE not a f×××ing Prius ir similar?
Wouldn't it be better if an N/A orvTurbo Porsche, Fezza, R8 etc could win outright and make loads of noise at the same time?
Ok, I know it's outdated, but I did go to LM for the first time in 1987, when proper cars were winning outright.
Discuss!!
Just got back from a PCGB Q and A session with Derek Bell, who was making the point that the current LMP1 regs are so expensive that it is not good for the sport. There are only 6 cars can win outright, and that deters sponsors from funding LMP2, GT3 ETC. Outside the petrolhead fraternity, the winners of the lower classes do not get any publicity, and apart from LM, No TV coverage.
All this hybrid techo is driven by politics, and is way above the heads of most of us. Apart from the super rich, how many reading this drive a "nice fast" hybrid - IE not a f×××ing Prius ir similar?
Wouldn't it be better if an N/A orvTurbo Porsche, Fezza, R8 etc could win outright and make loads of noise at the same time?
Ok, I know it's outdated, but I did go to LM for the first time in 1987, when proper cars were winning outright.
Discuss!!
nutsytvr said:
Maybe not a bad thing for sportscar racing?
Just got back from a PCGB Q and A session with Derek Bell, who was making the point that the current LMP1 regs are so expensive that it is not good for the sport. There are only 6 cars can win outright, and that deters sponsors from funding LMP2, GT3 ETC. Outside the petrolhead fraternity, the winners of the lower classes do not get any publicity, and apart from LM, No TV coverage.
All this hybrid techo is driven by politics, and is way above the heads of most of us. Apart from the super rich, how many reading this drive a "nice fast" hybrid - IE not a f×××ing Prius ir similar?
Wouldn't it be better if an N/A orvTurbo Porsche, Fezza, R8 etc could win outright and make loads of noise at the same time?
Ok, I know it's outdated, but I did go to LM for the first time in 1987, when proper cars were winning outright.
Discuss!!
I don't totally disagree, while I have only been going to LM since 09 I've been following sports car racing from a very early age. Just got back from a PCGB Q and A session with Derek Bell, who was making the point that the current LMP1 regs are so expensive that it is not good for the sport. There are only 6 cars can win outright, and that deters sponsors from funding LMP2, GT3 ETC. Outside the petrolhead fraternity, the winners of the lower classes do not get any publicity, and apart from LM, No TV coverage.
All this hybrid techo is driven by politics, and is way above the heads of most of us. Apart from the super rich, how many reading this drive a "nice fast" hybrid - IE not a f×××ing Prius ir similar?
Wouldn't it be better if an N/A orvTurbo Porsche, Fezza, R8 etc could win outright and make loads of noise at the same time?
Ok, I know it's outdated, but I did go to LM for the first time in 1987, when proper cars were winning outright.
Discuss!!
It is fascinating watching the technological battles of the manufacturers, they were the driving force behind a lot of the technologies we have seen come to the consumer market. However, as you point out, it does take some of the magic away of the race if only 6 cars of a grid of nearly 50 stand a chance of winning. If there were more LMP1 teams/cars, would that not eat into the lmp2 and GT grids which are very healthy and competitive. I'd like to see some of the works teams selling their cars to private teams, but with the secrecy about technology that would never happen. Its a bit of a catch 22. It will always put off the kind of investment needed to win. If you think about it, the vw/audi group always had pretty good odds to win with there being usually only 1 or 2 teams to compete against.
Simplifying the engineering requirements for the top tier teams could make it more accessible, but would it kind of miss the point of the race? The race in my eyes is the progress of technology, that is what attracts sponsors, press and people's imagination. It also attracts the best drivers from around the world who run hammer and tong for 24hrs straight in cars that have been engineered to do just that. That is what is so thrilling about the sport, 3 elements; the team, the manufacturer and the drivers. If one of them gets it wrong, you don't win! Without the need for progress, would we see the same cars on the grid year on year and watch the race become irrelevant?
I don't know what the right solution could be, bringing back just NA engines 'sounds' glorious to me, level the playing field a bit. Could that affect the image of a sport that probably wants to keep up the pretense of being environmentally aware? I think we and they all know that Motorsport isn't the most kind thing to the environment, so anything they can claw back that could be seen as a benefit to the normal motorist keeps it relevant.
I really didn't like how the last 24hr race finished in the GT class, the whole thing stunk of politics.
keen to discuss!
lestiq said:
I don't totally disagree, while I have only been going to LM since 09 I've been following sports car racing from a very early age.
It is fascinating watching the technological battles of the manufacturers, they were the driving force behind a lot of the technologies we have seen come to the consumer market. However, as you point out, it does take some of the magic away of the race if only 6 cars of a grid of nearly 50 stand a chance of winning. If there were more LMP1 teams/cars, would that not eat into the lmp2 and GT grids which are very healthy and competitive. I'd like to see some of the works teams selling their cars to private teams, but with the secrecy about technology that would never happen. Its a bit of a catch 22. It will always put off the kind of investment needed to win. If you think about it, the vw/audi group always had pretty good odds to win with there being usually only 1 or 2 teams to compete against.
Simplifying the engineering requirements for the top tier teams could make it more accessible, but would it kind of miss the point of the race? The race in my eyes is the progress of technology, that is what attracts sponsors, press and people's imagination. It also attracts the best drivers from around the world who run hammer and tong for 24hrs straight in cars that have been engineered to do just that. That is what is so thrilling about the sport, 3 elements; the team, the manufacturer and the drivers. If one of them gets it wrong, you don't win! Without the need for progress, would we see the same cars on the grid year on year and watch the race become irrelevant?
I don't know what the right solution could be, bringing back just NA engines 'sounds' glorious to me, level the playing field a bit. Could that affect the image of a sport that probably wants to keep up the pretense of being environmentally aware? I think we and they all know that Motorsport isn't the most kind thing to the environment, so anything they can claw back that could be seen as a benefit to the normal motorist keeps it relevant.
I really didn't like how the last 24hr race finished in the GT class, the whole thing stunk of politics.
keen to discuss!
Hi LestiqIt is fascinating watching the technological battles of the manufacturers, they were the driving force behind a lot of the technologies we have seen come to the consumer market. However, as you point out, it does take some of the magic away of the race if only 6 cars of a grid of nearly 50 stand a chance of winning. If there were more LMP1 teams/cars, would that not eat into the lmp2 and GT grids which are very healthy and competitive. I'd like to see some of the works teams selling their cars to private teams, but with the secrecy about technology that would never happen. Its a bit of a catch 22. It will always put off the kind of investment needed to win. If you think about it, the vw/audi group always had pretty good odds to win with there being usually only 1 or 2 teams to compete against.
Simplifying the engineering requirements for the top tier teams could make it more accessible, but would it kind of miss the point of the race? The race in my eyes is the progress of technology, that is what attracts sponsors, press and people's imagination. It also attracts the best drivers from around the world who run hammer and tong for 24hrs straight in cars that have been engineered to do just that. That is what is so thrilling about the sport, 3 elements; the team, the manufacturer and the drivers. If one of them gets it wrong, you don't win! Without the need for progress, would we see the same cars on the grid year on year and watch the race become irrelevant?
I don't know what the right solution could be, bringing back just NA engines 'sounds' glorious to me, level the playing field a bit. Could that affect the image of a sport that probably wants to keep up the pretense of being environmentally aware? I think we and they all know that Motorsport isn't the most kind thing to the environment, so anything they can claw back that could be seen as a benefit to the normal motorist keeps it relevant.
I really didn't like how the last 24hr race finished in the GT class, the whole thing stunk of politics.
keen to discuss!
Apart from technology secrets, no one outside the manufacturers could afford to buy these LMP1 cars. Derek Bell made the point last night. Back in the Group c days, late 80's, Porsche sold the 956 /962 to customer teams for circa;£400k. In the 87 LM there were 22 962's running in the top class,plus the Jags, a couple of Mercs (one driven by Schuey!!), Pescarolo team Top drivers appeared regularly - Brundle, Icx, Bell, Stuck, Fitzpatrick - to name just a few. Joest won it one year with a customer 962.
I also went to the 1000km's (equivalent of the current 6hr WEC races) races at Brands, Silverstone etc and the crowds were enormous. Look at the WEC nowadays on Tv. The stands are empty.
I know we can never go back, but I do think that motor racing in general is being killed off by the increasingly costly regulations. Look at F1 - it's a joke. Those group c cars were all powered by different engines, all of which were developed versions of road cars.
I agree with you about the LM GT class this year, but you watch. Porsche will be back with a car that will blow away Uncle Henry. Rumours abound about a mid engined "911".
I keep on going to LM, but the LMP1 cars are draining my enthusiasm. I go for the atmosphere and sheer spectacle, but couldn't care less about LMP1. If Audi do pull out, it may trigger a similar reaction from the other LMP1 teams and force a rethink on the hybrid regs.
Toyota don't think Audi are going anywhere based on how involved they still are with the 2018 regs
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/10/15/vasselon-...
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/10/15/vasselon-...
FredericRobinson said:
Audi don't think the current equivalency rules are fair between petrol and diesel.
The rules for 2018 forwards are in the process of being written.
The ACO and FIA really won't want Audi to leave the championship.
Not a bad time for these rumours to emerge from Audi's point of view.
They didn't complain from 2000 until Porsche came back, because they won every race. The equivalency rules heavily favoured the diesels during that period. Sod the diesels - no racing car should have an oil burner. No noise. Emissions. Smelly. Yes, I drive a diesel Porsche to tow my caravan (quickly) but I get my fum from a flat six screamer.The rules for 2018 forwards are in the process of being written.
The ACO and FIA really won't want Audi to leave the championship.
Not a bad time for these rumours to emerge from Audi's point of view.
nutsytvr said:
They didn't complain from 2000 until Porsche came back, because they won every race.
That will come as a surprise to 2009 Peugeot team, and a lesser degree the 2003 'Bentley' team.nutsytvr said:
The equivalency rules heavily favoured the diesels during that period.
What, the rules from 2000 favoured diesels? Wonder why Audi stuck with the petrol powered R8, nutsytvr said:
Sod the diesels - no racing car should have an oil burner. No noise.
Only because the ACO set noise and smoke limits low in an attempt to put Audi off - and Audi just saw it is a brilliant opportunity to make a marketing point that their diesel's AREN'T noisy and smoky.nutsytvr said:
Emissions. Smelly.
WFT? Can't say I've ever smelt an R10, R15 or R18 at Le Mans.nutsytvr said:
Yes, I drive a diesel Porsche to tow my caravan (quickly) but I get my fum from a flat six screamer.
MTFU and get a V8.Edited by //j17 on Tuesday 18th October 09:55
//j17 said:
MTFU and get a V8.
Used to have a V8 TVR. For 15 years (it was running for maybe 10 of those years). Got a V8 diesel now.The R8 and R10 weren't competing against any diesels, and the Bentley doesn't count. A dressed up Audi for marketing purposes.
I had forgotten about the Pug, but again I don't think it was competing against diesels.stand to be corrected.
Anyway, over the last 10 years at lesst the regs have clearly favoured diesels - until Porsche got involved again in LMP1.
The point is, as I said previously, the current hybrid regs are too expensive for anyone other than the major manufacturers to compete in, and that can't be good for the sport. Again I say look at F1. 3 engine manufacturers covering the whole field and ensuring that the "customer" cars have very little chance of winning.
nutsytvr said:
The point is, as I said previously, the current hybrid regs are too expensive for anyone other than the major manufacturers to compete in, and that can't be good for the sport. Again I say look at F1. 3 engine manufacturers covering the whole field and ensuring that the "customer" cars have very little chance of winning.
But that's the whole point of having separate P1 and P2 classes. LMP1 is meant to be for the big boys with the big budgets to push motoring technology forward and act as a proving ground for new tech. LMP2 is specifically there for private team with regs. set to limit costs.OK it's not perfect but I like the more open rule book that means 3 different manufacturers have read the same book and come up with 3 different ideas of what's best. Much better that in my book than a dull grid full of 22 identical Porsche 962s (even if the ACO seem to be steering LMP2 that way).
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