RE: Driven: Lotus Carlton

[braddo]

carinaman said:

braddo said:

Yep, same basic platforms, just the Commodores were wider (with local engines and revised front/rear styling).

Here's the late 80s Commodore that corresponded to the Carlton:

That front end is looking very MK2 SAAB 9000 to me.

It looked space-age modern when it came out but the basic car like above looks incredibly dated now.

You can see essentially the same glasshouse and doors here (pic from Mr B'stard Child) - I think it's a Senator?

[D_T_W]

I think the mag article that was originally mentioned was the EVO one, it had the E55, RS6 and M5, but they brought along the Vauxhall owned Carlton as a comparison to show how things had moved on. I've got the magazine at home in a box somewhere if anybody needs the issue number.

I've only ever been in 1 and it was an Opel Omega, bloke scared the utter st out of me in it after uttering the phrase "how fast do you think we can make it go before I have to brake for the entrance to the house?". He then proceeded to give it 6k and drop the clutch. The answer was bloody quickly, especially when you're sitting on the right hand side of the car with no steering wheel in front of you!!

[Smike]

D_T_W said:

I think the mag article that was originally mentioned was the EVO one, it had the E55, RS6 and M5, but they brought along the Vauxhall owned Carlton as a comparison to show how things had moved on. I've got the magazine at home in a box somewhere if anybody needs the issue number.

Number 48 October 2002 if you want to look up the EVO article above.

Top Gear mag also did an article when they first started and there was also a group test in Performance Car mag in the January 92 issue with the Alpina B10 Bi-Turbo and Mercedes E500

[NotNormal]

Here's the EVO article you might be reffering to guys

http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/cargrouptests/2987...

Really interesting read and very well written

[Nuppy]

I remember the bloke who owned a Tile warehouse in Armley in Leeds had one - used to drive past it every day drooling whenever I saw it - it looked awesome then, and looks awesome now...

[Englishman]

I owned this one '93 to '94.



Now this one.



So many similarities, power, brakes, room, slightly downmarket interiors. Both were and are great performance saloons for the money. One major difference though - biggest bill on the Carlton was ~£11k (under warranty), biggest bill on the VXR8 so far £300.

[kainedog]

Luca Brasi said:

Nice piece of machinery, rather have one these though

me too

[Welshbeef]

Great car truely stunning.
Seen a couple in the flesh but parked up never heard one live.

The guy who did that 90 miles at an average speed of 163mph I doth my cap you sir are a legend.

Other owners here what are your intentions with your cars are they keepers now and your aiming to keep then factory STD.

[Welshbeef]

Would fellow PHers put the RS2 built by porche and the RS4 B5 built by cosworth in a similar league of desirability high performance and legendary status? Oh and of course the E34 M5 hand built.

I'm guessing the RS2 more than the RS4 as it was a one off and to date not replicated whereas RS4 B7 has followed in mass numbers?

All very welcome into my garage but if not treat them as garage queens they would be used all the time and driven hard too as they were intended, serviced well plus preventative maintence.

[B'stard Child]

braddo said:

It looked space-age modern when it came out but the basic car like above looks incredibly dated now.

You can see essentially the same glasshouse and doors here (pic from Mr B'stard Child) - I think it's a Senator?

It is indeed my favorite car of all my driving career - the Vauxhall Senator 24V having owned literally dozens of them (but I've covered that elsewhere in here) Only difference between Carlton and Senator is a little extra length in the cabin and boot (although the boot lid is the same dimensions as is the wheel base and runing gear)

[Smike]

B'stard Child said:

It is indeed my favorite car of all my driving career - the Vauxhall Senator 24V having owned literally dozens of them (but I've covered that elsewhere in here)

I know a motorway patrol driver that said the Senator was the best 'work' car he got to drive. He said when they switched to the later shape Omegas a. they weren't as nice to drive and b. they had quite a few V6 engine failures initially with oil starvation ( I've never seen that reported anywhere else but he was adamant and reckoned it was something to do with the oil or sump design - ever heard similar Ian? )

[B'stard Child]

Welshbeef said:

The guy who did that 90 miles at an average speed of 163mph I doth my cap you sir are a legend.

+ 1 (And then some) The engine was std BTW apart from a free flow exhaust designed and built by Joe himself (he has since done a very nice replacement system for the LC that replicates the original)

Welshbeef said:

Other owners here what are your intentions with your cars are they keepers now and your aiming to keep then factory STD.

I have a bit of a love hate relationship with mine but I still have it after 11 years....

Day I first saw it (Tucked up at the back of a workshop at Hethel) on a Lotus Open Day - told me thay didn't really want it on display



Later I found out they didn't want it at all (or rather thay needed to raise some funds) so I bid for it in a sealed bit auction - tricky one that (to put a value on something that wasn't all it seemed)

It's been featured in a few books







Not to mention driven by Tiff for Top Gear - search for it on U tube - I'm not linking to it.

All interesting stuff in view of it's providence which itself is a story I'm not going into.

I've done a fair bit with it

tracked it (Not it's ideal place - My Monza is much better at that IMO but then again it's not really std)



Showed it - Petrolheads everywhere seem to appreciate it



Driven non stop (apart from refueling) from Norfolk to Milan (this is where it is awesome as an intercontinental ballistic missile because it truely is one) and then onto Umbria the following day - incidently on one tankfull it averaged over 31 mpg - not bad I reckon....



Of course I've broken it



And fixed it



And then not had time to use it for the last couple of years and kinda lost me mojo with it - almost sold it but then didn't.

Bottom line the Lotus Carlton gets under your skin a bit - I bought a 740 to replace both an LC and a Senator - still have the LC and I'd rather have another Senator........

is it a keeper? - Lord knows - Mrs BC doesn't like it much and it takes up a big chunk of the garage restricting space for other projects which can be a real pain but it's still mine.

It's a big bruiser and you need to drive it - it doesn't drive itself - but I have a lot of different memories and most of them involve the look on other drivers faces when the pedal goes down to the floor - ypi can almost hear their words - it's an old soggy repmobile after all - it's not a supercar so where the heck did it go......

Edited by B'stard Child on Thursday 12th May 23:56

[Lets Torque]

I love these things!

It all started when my dad had two Vauxhall Carlton 2.0 CDX's, his next step was going to be a Diplomat or one of these. Sadly he never got round to owning any and just got a Vauxhall Omega 2.5 V6 instead.

Anyway these Lotus Carltons hold a special place in with me, I love the fact it can still scare newer German rivals. It has held its price better than I thought though..

True classic IMO.

[NotNormal]

Welshbeef said:

Great car truely stunning.
Other owners here what are your intentions with your cars are they keepers now and your aiming to keep then factory STD.

I bought mine back in 2003 after a 6 month search for the right car at the time. They are a rare car so I was prepared to (and did) travel all over the country to view cars that popped up for sale and I specifically wanted a RHD example. Like many who think about buying one of these cars I was told by a number of people about the high running costs and horror stories abouts parts failing so looked around at what other cars I could get for similar money, however the heart kept pulling back to the big green beast. I'd seen them as a child when they were launched and read all the press articles so there was already a burning desire to own one from an early age.

I am a bit of a clean freak at heart so knew at some point i'd start wanting to bring it to pristene condition but the clutch pivot pin broke on me after 6 months of ownership and that really I suppose was the trigger that started (unknown at the time) a 2 1/2 year restoration on the whole car. I knew parts were getting scarce so thought best to do it then rather than wait till the problem of parts got worse. The restoration was a LOT OF VERY HARD WORK and I must admit it took (along with some pain with some problems along the way) a lot of time as I did it all myself with only the bodywork and paint being shipped out.

Since the car has been on the road again back in 2006 it averages 2-3000 miles a year going from various events and summer jounts as I really only have it as a "high days, special car" so bit of a toy really. Apart from the odd niggly issue its been extremely reliable and a real joy to own. For anyone thinking about one, yes parts can be tricky at times to find but in general they are certainly not the total knightmare that many report as there alternatives found/created that can be used instead. Moving in the right circles (i.e the AB club) certainly helps point people in the right direction. They say never meet you childhood hero's for fear of dissapointment but I can honestly say the Carlton has lived up to those early thoughts and I really do relish the ownership experience of what is a truly great car, even today.

Is it a keeper..............you bet it is



PS> I normally attend PH Sunday Service meets and Goodwood Breakfast Clubs when dry so if anyone wants to pop over and say hello i'll be more than happy to talk and show people around the car if need be so don't be shy.

[2woody]

I bought mine as a pile of parts and am still looking for most of them. It's probably the one thing I would sell last, but then again, I do have, er, other things, too.

[feck_on_a_stick]

I've only seen two in my life. One past me on a coutry road many years ago and disappeared into the distance.

The other turned up at a drag and drift day last month. The guy had just bought it and thought he'd bring it for a laugh.

He had so much trouble getting it off the lights but it pretty much caught everything else there before it got to the finish line.

Here's a Youtube link to it just losing out to a friend's MG Midget
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_pDvq8H8LQ

[AshVX220]

I'd love one, not much more I can say about it. It would be my ideal four door car, such a shame fuel prices prohibit it being a sensible weekday car, hence I got a Mondeo ST TDCi.

If fuel ever got back to something sensible, like 80p/l I'd probably look into getting one.

[Daveyraveygravey]

Baryonyx said:

The Lotus Carlton is such a fantastic car, it truely stirs the heart. Easily the best thing Lotus have ever put their name on.

I can't have that, and no-one else has spotted it?! Are we forgetting 7, Elan, Elite (first one) some Esprits, Elise, Exige???

I love the LC too, would have it over any hot Ford (maybe not the GT40!)

[456lbft]

NotNormal said:

From what I can make out the class you were in (after looking at the website) was to try and hit an average of 160mph over the distance but alas going quicker shows you as third. From what you experienced could you have gone for a higher speed class or did you or the car not feel that would have been possible?

Can imagine it certainly must have been a buzz

To get the 163 average meant maxing it on all the straights, for which we had a bit of help from a headwind. In our class our max allowed speed was 180 (due to tyres etc) so I held it at an indicated 180 through the speed trap, which was recorded by radar at 177 I think. Once past there the speedo went beyond 180 on a few occasions (when I was brave enough to look). Aero wise it was very stable except for one side wide which blew me about 6ft off line, and on a couple of bumpy sections we got air, which was interesting. To get the high speeds you need to be in 5th, and then the engine is revving way beyond its torque peak, so you hit a wall aero wise. To go faster we'd need to retune the engine to make power higher in the rev range and possibly alter the gearing a bit. To qualify for the unlimited class you need to have completed a run at over 165mph average, but they told me I'd got close enough, which was our target. One funny incident came after the race, when a fellow racer with a V8 twin turbo Esprit which he had boasted was the "Fastest Lotus in the World", admitted that he'd have to revise his claims as he'd only managed to average 150! One day I'll go back, maybe with the Lotus or perhaps something else.

[B'stard Child]

456lbft said:

To get the 163 average meant maxing it on all the straights, for which we had a bit of help from a headwind. In our class our max allowed speed was 180 (due to tyres etc) so I held it at an indicated 180 through the speed trap, which was recorded by radar at 177 I think. Once past there the speedo went beyond 180 on a few occasions (when I was brave enough to look). Aero wise it was very stable except for one side wide which blew me about 6ft off line, and on a couple of bumpy sections we got air, which was interesting. To get the high speeds you need to be in 5th, and then the engine is revving way beyond its torque peak, so you hit a wall aero wise. To go faster we'd need to retune the engine to make power higher in the rev range and possibly alter the gearing a bit. To qualify for the unlimited class you need to have completed a run at over 165mph average, but they told me I'd got close enough, which was our target. One funny incident came after the race, when a fellow racer with a V8 twin turbo Esprit which he had boasted was the "Fastest Lotus in the World", admitted that he'd have to revise his claims as he'd only managed to average 150! One day I'll go back, maybe with the Lotus or perhaps something else.

That's more like it - Air at 160 plus - you must have taken your brave pills that day