RE: You Know You Want To... Citroen SM

[Kitchski]

fluffnik said:

red_rover said:

The SM is the BX development hack if you ask me.

The BX had a considerable additional set of interesting technologies not seen in the SM.

There's not really anything in the SM that hadn't been proven in the DS.

...if only William Lyons hadn't pssed on Rover and Triumph's chips.

The BX and SM are worlds apart. The only similarities are hydropneumatic suspension (though the suspension layout itself is again totally different) and the use of non-conventional materials to make the bonnet (SM aircraft grade aluminium, BX polycarbonate).
The only thing the BX gained over the SM was an anti-dive system that worked exceptionally well.

As far as DS vs. SM goes, how about DIRAVI power steering? (as opposed to power assisted steering) Rear disc brakes? Aluminium body panels? It's true the SM is in effect a DS coupe though. The underpinnings are easy to relate, but the drivetrain is obviously different due to the Mazzer elements.

I love the SM. It's on my dream list....in fact it's one of the only ones that may be achiveable!

Random SM trivia:

• There is no chrome on the SM. All the shiney bits are stainless steel.

• The US spec cars didn't have swivelling headlamps or an enclosed numberplate on the front. They were also detuned.

• It held the record for fastest production FWD car for some years, until being beaten by the Lancia Thema 8.32 (I think!)

• The V6 engine features twin overhead camshafts driven by timing chains. Chains that are positioned INSIDE the engine, between cylinders 2-3 & 5-6! See the lump on the cam covers.

• The high pressure hydraulic pump is driven by an aircraft-style jack shaft directly from the engine.

• Burt Reynolds loved the SM he drove in The Longest Yard so much, he went and bought one for himself. It's also one of Jay Leno's favourite cars in his garage (apparently).

• If you own one, I hate you.

[blueg33]

Justayellowbadge said:

Ah, but..

In C&SC a few years ago (Issue with a particularly splendid Lancia 8.32 on the cover ) there was a piece where they had one as a pool car for a month to demonstrate that they could actually be used as a daily. They had no problems at all.

I know, I have the article....but I was doing £0k miles a year and the service interval is short and the service costly

[Johnboy Mac]

Kitchski said:

• If you own one, I hate you.

Yeah, what he said.

[Parrot of Doom]

That, is an interior far prettier and far more luxurious than many a car produced today. It reminds me of the E60 interior, although it's nicer.

[Justayellowbadge]

blueg33 said:

I know, I have the article....but I was doing £0k miles a year and the service interval is short and the service costly

Whatever. Did you like the Lancia?

[urquattro]

varsas said:

The production V6 is basically a V8 with two cylinders removed, isn't it? The angle isn't quite right for a V6, is it...90 degrees instead of 60?

Urquattro: I don't think it was ever offered with a 1.8 was it?

Octane had a really nice write up of these a few months back. Really nice pictures.
ETA: http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/features/o...

any more brochure scans would be appreciated, I would buy one for my small collection but not at £50!

Edited by varsas on Tuesday 24th May 14:19

Maybe I confused my point, I thought the standard DS had an underpowered unit, hence the 1.8L or similar comment, Did the French tax the car on its capacity, hence superb model DS but with a lower spec. engine to get round the tax issue. Guess the SM buyers couldnt care less about the tax.

[blueg33]

Justayellowbadge said:

Whatever. Did you like the Lancia?

Always liked the engine part of the Lancia

[knowley]

My father owned an injection SM from new and managed 143 mph on the autobahn, nothing on the road at the time kept up! Story ends badly as when he passed some m*f*ers took advantage of my mum when she was looking to sell it, wrecked it and she ended up having to virtually give it away to someone to restore it ... Gutted :-((

Bit of a marmite car to look at but for it's era very advanced and an icon of my youth; only a true pistonhead knows and respects what citroen did with this model.

[SManiac]

james_tigerwoods said:

I call BS - need to see more photos of that, you know, just to be sure

Happy to oblige, I just wish I could get the image to show instead of the link.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_C3E5iSvewpA/TbO...

Here is our SM in front of our home in Port Townsend, WA. I have had it for 20 years and it has been a wonderful car. Of course it has also had it's moments but with 230,000 miles, it gets used!

[Johnboy Mac]

SManiac said:

Happy to oblige, I just wish I could get the image to show instead of the link.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_C3E5iSvewpA/TbO...

Here is our SM in front of our home in Port Townsend, WA. I have had it for 20 years and it has been a wonderful car. Of course it has also had it's moments but with 230,000 miles, it gets used!

Very nice. Euro spec h/lamps too, how come?


Edit: SManiac, could you give (even a brief) run down on maintenance & repiars of your car?

Edited by Johnboy Mac on Tuesday 24th May 21:43

[Farmer]

one of these crackers arrived near me at Ashby this month. fabulous. shouldn't work but ends up being greater than the sum of its' parts. Will cost Ferrari money to keep running, but what a lucky owner

[Justayellowbadge]

Farmer said:

one of these crackers arrived near me at Ashby this month. fabulous. shouldn't work but ends up being greater than the sum of its' parts. Will cost Ferrari money to keep running, but what a lucky owner

Best SM quote: All the running costs of a Ferrari with none of the social stigma.

[ajhl9898]

My favourite car of all time, the way all Citroens should be.

[varsas]

urquattro said:

varsas said:

The production V6 is basically a V8 with two cylinders removed, isn't it? The angle isn't quite right for a V6, is it...90 degrees instead of 60?

Urquattro: I don't think it was ever offered with a 1.8 was it?

Octane had a really nice write up of these a few months back. Really nice pictures.
ETA: http://www.classicandperformancecar.com/features/o...

any more brochure scans would be appreciated, I would buy one for my small collection but not at £50!

Edited by varsas on Tuesday 24th May 14:19

Maybe I confused my point, I thought the standard DS had an underpowered unit, hence the 1.8L or similar comment, Did the French tax the car on its capacity, hence superb model DS but with a lower spec. engine to get round the tax issue. Guess the SM buyers couldnt care less about the tax.

Oh right, yeah. You are right about engine capacity - tax issue. The DS never really had the engine it deserved. IIRC it was supposed to have a more advanced mill but ended up with the traction avent (predecessor to the DS) engine which never really did it justice (or so I have heard). I think later ones had a 2.1 litre fuel injected engine but even so...

[LuS1fer]

varsas said:

Oh right, yeah. You are right about engine capacity - tax issue. The DS never really had the engine it deserved. IIRC it was supposed to have a more advanced mill but ended up with the traction avent (predecessor to the DS) engine which never really did it justice (or so I have heard). I think later ones had a 2.1 litre fuel injected engine but even so...

They got a 2.3 as well hence DS21, DS23. Still not a great engine though. Even the CX only got a 2.4 Turbo when sporty saloons started to become the in thing.

[vixen1700]

Here's a picture of me around 1974 with an SM, which interestingly was RHD. I've done a check on the registration, but sadly not around anymore. I think there were a couple of RHD SMs converted at Slough, and this was one of them.

Don't know what's worse, my '70s appearence at the age of 8 or those wing mirrors.

From this 'ere thread in Classic cars and Yesterday's Heros

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

[cccscotland]

Here's mine.

I've had it 2 years, and loved it. To put to rest a couple of misconceptions - by now, any SM running will have had an engine upgrade to solid valves, etc. These upgrades are known to make the Maser V6 as robust as anything German from that vintage. And the suspension system is both relatively straightforward to work on, and parts (from enthusiast specialists like Pleiades) are reasonably cheap and easy to come by. Buy a good one, and you shouldn't have to spend too much on it.

In my opinion it is the perfect classic car. I have a little form on this having owned numerous - E-type, Mk2, Daimlers, Austin Healey, Ferrari, Aston etc - and the SM is far and away my favourite.

It looks like a spaceship - even though it's 40 years old most people would never guess, it sounds fabulous under load, the ride and handling shame most modern cars, and with a 0 - 60 of around 7 secs and topping out at over 140 it can cut around in everyday traffic like a modern car. Not only that but I love the fact that most people have no idea what it is.

Last year I took it on a round trip from Scotland to the Goodwood Revival, and on a week tour of the Northern Highlands and Islands, and it never missed a beat. There's none of the sado-masochism that one has to put up with when driving most classic cars.

At around £20k I think they are a total steal, especially when you drive what £20k gets you in almost all of the marques I mentioned above. Indeed, I would go as far as to say that the SM is the most obvious classic car punt out there at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised to see prices double in the next 5 years if more people become aware of them and their qualities. If that happens, I won't be selling though.

[vixen1700]

Along with the other poster, I hate you too.

[PascalBuyens]

JoeFrost said:

Right, so how does one modulate a brake 'button' then??

Owners?

By gently rubbing it with your toes?

[cccscotland]

PascalBuyens said:

JoeFrost said:

Right, so how does one modulate a brake 'button' then??

Owners?

By gently rubbing it with your toes?

In the same way you modulate a pedal - by varying the pressure.