RE: SOTW: BMW 318is
Discussion
Kawasicki said:
PH is based in the EU. (you might stop wanting to look a bit daft now.)
Lets get straight back to your (incorrect) simple calcs that show the 318is as having less wheel horse power per tonne than a VTR.
Stay focused on your errors please, dig yourself in deeper!
PH is based in the EU is what i said?!? Lets get straight back to your (incorrect) simple calcs that show the 318is as having less wheel horse power per tonne than a VTR.
Stay focused on your errors please, dig yourself in deeper!
Point is the saxo weight is quoted as EU weight so the BMW is too quoted to the same standard. If you really want to quote your BMWs weight sans driver and - an extra 20kgs the whp/ton may yes rise slightly but then I'd just start quoting the saxo sans driver and any advantage you get by fiddling the numbers in the BMWs favour is negated.
A driverless car aint going nowhere.
If your BMW weighs 1240kg by the same 'non EU' standard the saxo must weigh 920kg-68kg-7kg= 845kgs. So differance is still the same.
However the carfolio quote for the BMW is 95kg lower than any other quote so your 'EU weight driver is +68kg +7kg luggage' Still doesnt make sense because thats only 75kg of a 95kg differance.
Carfolio themselves admit 'The specifications for this 1991 BMW 318is 16v Coupé {E36} car are presented for your information only and no guarantees as to their accuracy can be given. Use this data entirely at your own risk. Please report any errors or omissions'
But to humour you this is how the figures look assuming non EU measurement of weight, 93.41whp/ton to the BMW at 1240kg with 114whp. and 97.40whp/ton to the saxo at 845kg with 81whp.
Edited by KM666 on Sunday 12th June 14:10
Jonny_693 said:
ADM06 said:
Who's 328 actually has a standard engine though? It is so cheap and easy too give yourself an extra 25 - 30bhp (and more with more time and money) that you'd be silly to leave it as standard.
Mine is standard, generally quite happy with it TBH. I've read a little bit about the mods needed to liberate the power, and came the conclusion that unless you're handy with a spanner, then it'll cost you a fair bit. The car was only 1800 quid, so I'm not about to spend half or more paying someone to give it 10% more power (especially not when spending about the same on top of what I'd make selling it would probably buy something like a 300 bhp MR2T which would be a lot faster).
KM666 said:
Kawasicki said:
PH is based in the EU. (you might stop wanting to look a bit daft now.)
Lets get straight back to your (incorrect) simple calcs that show the 318is as having less wheel horse power per tonne than a VTR.
Stay focused on your errors please, dig yourself in deeper!
PH is based in the EU is what i said?!? Lets get straight back to your (incorrect) simple calcs that show the 318is as having less wheel horse power per tonne than a VTR.
Stay focused on your errors please, dig yourself in deeper!
Point is the saxo weight is quoted as EU weight so the BMW is too quoted to the same standard. If you really want to quote your BMWs weight sans driver and - an extra 20kgs the whp/ton may yes rise slightly but then I'd just start quoting the saxo sans driver and any advantage you get by fiddling the numbers in the BMWs favour is negated.
A driverless car aint going nowhere.
If your BMW weighs 1240kg by the same 'non EU' standard the saxo must weigh 920kg-68kg-7kg= 845kgs. So differance is still the same.
However the carfolio quote for the BMW is 95kg lower than any other quote so your 'EU weight driver is +68kg +7kg luggage' Still doesnt make sense because thats only 75kg of a 95kg differance.
Carfolio themselves admit 'The specifications for this 1991 BMW 318is 16v Coupé {E36} car are presented for your information only and no guarantees as to their accuracy can be given. Use this data entirely at your own risk. Please report any errors or omissions'
But to humour you this is how the figures look assuming non EU measurement of weight, 93.41whp/ton to the BMW at 1240kg with 114whp. and 97.40whp/ton to the saxo at 845kg with 81whp.
Edited by KM666 on Sunday 12th June 14:10
318is without driver is 1240kg (ON OFFICIAL CERT DOCS)
the bmw has a higher whp/tonne than the saxo vtr, if you add a driver to both, it just gets better for the 318is, so I fail to understand your "driverless car aint going nowhere" comment.
Check your figures, and please stop obsessing about Carfolio. There are plenty of other sources.
It is simple, the 318is, with 1.8l, 140PS engine has higher power to weight than a Saxo VTR with a 1.6l, 90PS engine. The 318is has 56% more power yet only weighs 35% more.
Repeat after me
real kerb of vtr 920kg
real kerb of 318is 1240kg
Kawasicki said:
KM666 said:
Kawasicki said:
PH is based in the EU. (you might stop wanting to look a bit daft now.)
Lets get straight back to your (incorrect) simple calcs that show the 318is as having less wheel horse power per tonne than a VTR.
Stay focused on your errors please, dig yourself in deeper!
PH is based in the EU is what i said?!? Lets get straight back to your (incorrect) simple calcs that show the 318is as having less wheel horse power per tonne than a VTR.
Stay focused on your errors please, dig yourself in deeper!
Point is the saxo weight is quoted as EU weight so the BMW is too quoted to the same standard. If you really want to quote your BMWs weight sans driver and - an extra 20kgs the whp/ton may yes rise slightly but then I'd just start quoting the saxo sans driver and any advantage you get by fiddling the numbers in the BMWs favour is negated.
A driverless car aint going nowhere.
If your BMW weighs 1240kg by the same 'non EU' standard the saxo must weigh 920kg-68kg-7kg= 845kgs. So differance is still the same.
However the carfolio quote for the BMW is 95kg lower than any other quote so your 'EU weight driver is +68kg +7kg luggage' Still doesnt make sense because thats only 75kg of a 95kg differance.
Carfolio themselves admit 'The specifications for this 1991 BMW 318is 16v Coupé {E36} car are presented for your information only and no guarantees as to their accuracy can be given. Use this data entirely at your own risk. Please report any errors or omissions'
But to humour you this is how the figures look assuming non EU measurement of weight, 93.41whp/ton to the BMW at 1240kg with 114whp. and 97.40whp/ton to the saxo at 845kg with 81whp.
Edited by KM666 on Sunday 12th June 14:10
318is without driver is 1240kg (ON OFFICIAL CERT DOCS)
the bmw has a higher whp/tonne than the saxo vtr, if you add a driver to both, it just gets better for the 318is, so I fail to understand your "driverless car aint going nowhere" comment.
Check your figures, and please stop obsessing about Carfolio. There are plenty of other sources.
It is simple, the 318is, with 1.8l, 140PS engine has higher power to weight than a Saxo VTR with a 1.6l, 90PS engine. The 318is has 56% more power yet only weighs 35% more.
Repeat after me
real kerb of vtr 920kg
real kerb of 318is 1240kg
BMWs can have quite a lot of optional equipment which can affect the actual real weight depending on options chosen.
I had an E36 328i that weighed in at 1420kg on a local weighbridge ( supposedly accurate to +/- 15kg ). It had climate control, heated leather and electric sunroof and had approx 1/2 tank of fuel.
The Autocar test car weighed in at 1350kg but not sure what options it had.
BMW are aware of quite large disparities in weight depending on options. Weigh an E30 M3 with aircon, EDC etc etc and it will be considerably heavier than one without.....to the extent that BMW do a different poundage front spring for aircon cars as opposed to those without
Kawasicki said:
saxo vtr weighs 920 kg without driver
318is without driver is 1240kg (ON OFFICIAL CERT DOCS)
the bmw has a higher whp/tonne than the saxo vtr, if you add a driver to both, it just gets better for the 318is, so I fail to understand your "driverless car aint going nowhere" comment.
Check your figures, and please stop obsessing about Carfolio. There are plenty of other sources.
It is simple, the 318is, with 1.8l, 140PS engine has higher power to weight than a Saxo VTR with a 1.6l, 90PS engine. The 318is has 56% more power yet only weighs 35% more.
Repeat after me
real kerb of vtr 920kg
real kerb of 318is 1240kg
Oh of course so its ONLY your car that has the wrong weight quoted for it? So why in europe where we apparently add 75kg to kerb weight when quoting minimum kerb weight do the same rules not apply to every other single car ever built? 318is without driver is 1240kg (ON OFFICIAL CERT DOCS)
the bmw has a higher whp/tonne than the saxo vtr, if you add a driver to both, it just gets better for the 318is, so I fail to understand your "driverless car aint going nowhere" comment.
Check your figures, and please stop obsessing about Carfolio. There are plenty of other sources.
It is simple, the 318is, with 1.8l, 140PS engine has higher power to weight than a Saxo VTR with a 1.6l, 90PS engine. The 318is has 56% more power yet only weighs 35% more.
Repeat after me
real kerb of vtr 920kg
real kerb of 318is 1240kg
Or do we in europe quote half and half perhaps?
You are of course aware this is likely to be a 1.9 model (1335kgs) and not the earlyer 1.8 introduced in 1991, production of the 1.8's that may well have in poverty spec weighed in at 1240kgs ended in febuary 96, so even if it were a late 1.8 model by 96 they'd have been leaving showrooms fully loaded, as this one is with the full 'M' kit. If yours has the bodykit it aint weighing 1240kg!
With the 'leccy windows and sunroof sported on the ad car its no welterweight... and thats before the owner went all chav and stuck on a set of huge, complex, heavy wheels.
So what other sources? Parkers and autotrader agree on the 1.9 weighing 1335kg. Carfolio claims 1240kg, the autocar article alluded to is unobtainable through the autocar website because its such an old review, so there is no other reputable source that backs up your claim, one or two BMW owners sites claim 1240 but then get other things like price when new wrong...
Does anybody have access to that old issue of autocar to clear it up? Typical google after it started trying to guess absolutely useless and just turns up a load of irrelivence.
Edited by KM666 on Monday 13th June 22:30
KM666 said:
You are of course aware this is likely to be a 1.9 model (1335kgs) and not the earlyer 1.8 introduced in 1991, production of the 1.8's that may well have in poverty spec weighed in at 1240kgs ended in febuary 96, so even if it were a late 1.8 model by 96 they'd have been leaving showrooms fully loaded, as this one is with the full 'M' kit. If yours has the bodykit it aint weighing 1240kg!
With the 'leccy windows and sunroof sported on the ad car its no welterweight... and thats before the owner went all chav and stuck on a set of huge, complex, heavy wheels.
Leccy windows are standard on all but a 316e, Saxos can have sunroofs, and saxos will be the most likely of these two to be chavved.With the 'leccy windows and sunroof sported on the ad car its no welterweight... and thats before the owner went all chav and stuck on a set of huge, complex, heavy wheels.
Edited by KM666 on Monday 13th June 22:15
1240kg without driver sounds about right to me, a 328 would be 1395kg with driver/1320kg without and that's from the manual of my old one.
KM666 said:
Kawasicki said:
saxo vtr weighs 920 kg without driver
318is without driver is 1240kg (ON OFFICIAL CERT DOCS)
the bmw has a higher whp/tonne than the saxo vtr, if you add a driver to both, it just gets better for the 318is, so I fail to understand your "driverless car aint going nowhere" comment.
Check your figures, and please stop obsessing about Carfolio. There are plenty of other sources.
It is simple, the 318is, with 1.8l, 140PS engine has higher power to weight than a Saxo VTR with a 1.6l, 90PS engine. The 318is has 56% more power yet only weighs 35% more.
Repeat after me
real kerb of vtr 920kg
real kerb of 318is 1240kg
Oh of course so its ONLY your car that has the wrong weight quoted for it?318is without driver is 1240kg (ON OFFICIAL CERT DOCS)
the bmw has a higher whp/tonne than the saxo vtr, if you add a driver to both, it just gets better for the 318is, so I fail to understand your "driverless car aint going nowhere" comment.
Check your figures, and please stop obsessing about Carfolio. There are plenty of other sources.
It is simple, the 318is, with 1.8l, 140PS engine has higher power to weight than a Saxo VTR with a 1.6l, 90PS engine. The 318is has 56% more power yet only weighs 35% more.
Repeat after me
real kerb of vtr 920kg
real kerb of 318is 1240kg
Seriously, what are you talking about?...Carfolio data for the 318is....cut and pasted......
1991 BMW 318is 16v Coupé dimensions & weight
Wheelbase 2700 mm 106.3 in
Track front 1408 mm 55.4 in
rear 1421 mm 55.9 in
Length 4433 mm 174.5 in
Width 1710 mm 67.3 in
Height 1366 mm 53.8 in
Length:wheelbase ratio 1.64
Ground clearance
Kerb weight 1240 kg 2734 lb
Here is the link...
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/...
Let's not complicate things by bringing up the 1.9l engined model...(the true kerb weight of which is about 1350-75kg or 1275kg, for reasons explained earlier.)
It is simple, the 318is, with 1.8l, 140PS engine has higher power to weight than a Saxo VTR with a 1.6l, 90PS engine. The 318is has 56% more power yet only weighs 35% more.
I had my 1999 E36 318is coupé, m-sport, 1.9 non sunroof, air con,half leather sport seats,full factory fitted m-tech kit with after market 18" wheels on a weight bridge a few months back and it weighed approx around 1300kg ( that figure is minus my weight, around 80kg plus half tank of fuel,20kg?? havnt a notion what half tank of fuel weighs?),would be lighter if i put the standard 16" wheels back on.
so a poverty spec 318is could weigh as little as 1240kgs depending on options, BMW sunroofs are very heavy!!
so a poverty spec 318is could weigh as little as 1240kgs depending on options, BMW sunroofs are very heavy!!
Jack Dupp said:
I had my 1999 E36 318is coupé, m-sport, 1.9 non sunroof, air con,half leather sport seats,full factory fitted m-tech kit with after market 18" wheels on a weight bridge a few months back and it weighed approx around 1300kg ( that figure is minus my weight, around 80kg plus half tank of fuel,20kg?? havnt a notion what half tank of fuel weighs?),would be lighter if i put the standard 16" wheels back on.
so a poverty spec 318is could weigh as little as 1240kgs depending on options, BMW sunroofs are very heavy!!
Very very heavy. With the cassette mine weighed 10.2 Kg. I had to put it back in to stop rain coming in though but soon I will put a square of something light there.so a poverty spec 318is could weigh as little as 1240kgs depending on options, BMW sunroofs are very heavy!!
KM666 said:
Colonial said:
No fan boy. Just think you are talking out your arse.
Which is why you've owned 2? A dazzling contribution there.Face it. You are just digging yourself deeper into some hole over a trivial detail. Give it up.
clarkey328is said:
Very very heavy. With the cassette mine weighed 10.2 Kg. I had to put it back in to stop rain coming in though but soon I will put a square of something light there.
My friend removed his from his M3 track car, I couldn't believe how heavy it was, couldn't be good for the handling with that much weight above your head!He replaced it with a carbon fibre sunroof delete panel...
Kawasicki said:
First, you really are obsessed with Carfolio!
Seriously, what are you talking about?...Carfolio data for the 318is....cut and pasted......
1991 BMW 318is 16v Coupé dimensions & weight
Wheelbase 2700 mm 106.3 in
Track front 1408 mm 55.4 in
rear 1421 mm 55.9 in
Length 4433 mm 174.5 in
Width 1710 mm 67.3 in
Height 1366 mm 53.8 in
Length:wheelbase ratio 1.64
Ground clearance
Kerb weight 1240 kg 2734 lb
Here is the link...
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/...
Let's not complicate things by bringing up the 1.9l engined model...(the true kerb weight of which is about 1350-75kg or 1275kg, for reasons explained earlier.)
It is simple, the 318is, with 1.8l, 140PS engine has higher power to weight than a Saxo VTR with a 1.6l, 90PS engine. The 318is has 56% more power yet only weighs 35% more.
What?!? I know perfectly well what carfolio is? Seriously, what are you talking about?...Carfolio data for the 318is....cut and pasted......
1991 BMW 318is 16v Coupé dimensions & weight
Wheelbase 2700 mm 106.3 in
Track front 1408 mm 55.4 in
rear 1421 mm 55.9 in
Length 4433 mm 174.5 in
Width 1710 mm 67.3 in
Height 1366 mm 53.8 in
Length:wheelbase ratio 1.64
Ground clearance
Kerb weight 1240 kg 2734 lb
Here is the link...
http://www.carfolio.com/specifications/models/car/...
Let's not complicate things by bringing up the 1.9l engined model...(the true kerb weight of which is about 1350-75kg or 1275kg, for reasons explained earlier.)
It is simple, the 318is, with 1.8l, 140PS engine has higher power to weight than a Saxo VTR with a 1.6l, 90PS engine. The 318is has 56% more power yet only weighs 35% more.
WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT WHY ARE THERE NO OTHER SOURCES THAT BACK IT UP!
THIS MAKES NO SENSE '(the true kerb weight of which is about 1350-75kg or 1275kg, for reasons explained earlier.)'
I live in England.
I go on the autotrader website.
The autotrader website says a '96 BMW 318is weighs 1355 kgs.
YOU say that in England minimum kerb weight is quoted as +75kgs.
Autotrader quotes the bmw318is as 1355kgs.
Autotrader quotes the saxo as 920kgs.
Why is the BMWs weight quoted as +75kgs and the saxos weight quoted as -75kgs?
A boggo '93 318i is quoted as 1310kgs.
If you maintain that the BMW 318iS weighs 1240kgs (+/-75kgs) because of EU quoting them with 75kgs extra then why are all cars sold in europe not quoted to the same standard? Why would those evil Belgians add 75kgs to your big fat beemer but not tar hatchback welterwelts with the same brush?
Weighbridges have some kind of tare built in, or are innacurate. one motorbike on the bridge gets one reading, another bike gets a 5kg higher reading, when both on it thier weight does not equal the weight of both bikes indivual weights combined.
Edited by KM666 on Tuesday 14th June 22:33
KM666 said:
Weighbridges have some kind of tare built in, or are innacurate. one motorbike on the bridge gets one reading, another bike gets a 5kg higher reading, when both on it thier weight does not equal the weight of both bikes indivual weights combined.
Is tare not just a reset button to reset the weight (ie car on weighbridge) to zero before you weigh something to be accurate?Edited by KM666 on Tuesday 14th June 22:33
My car was weighed going in then coming back out so if it was out by a certain value going in it would be out by the same amount going back out.
Also the bridge I used is for going in to the council tip so it would have to be accurate to a certain degree or they would be under/over charging people/businesses so i'm sure they have it calibrated regularly and be quite accurate.
KM666 said:
WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT WHY ARE THERE NO OTHER SOURCES THAT BACK IT UP!
Here you go (just 7 links from the 500,000 odd google results)http://www.cars-data.com/en/bmw-318is-coupe-140hp-...
http://www.carinf.com/en/78a048286.html
http://www.i0100.com/us/bmw-318is_ts340mt_p0.htm
http://www.carsplusplus.com/specs1991/bmw_318is_co...
http://eng.motorsporlari.net/car/tech_spec.asp?spe...
http://automobilio.info/en/BMW/3er/3er-E36/318-is-...
Kawasicki said:
KM666 said:
WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT WHY ARE THERE NO OTHER SOURCES THAT BACK IT UP!
Here you go (just 7 links from the 500,000 odd google results)http://www.cars-data.com/en/bmw-318is-coupe-140hp-...
http://www.carinf.com/en/78a048286.html
http://www.i0100.com/us/bmw-318is_ts340mt_p0.htm
http://www.carsplusplus.com/specs1991/bmw_318is_co...
http://eng.motorsporlari.net/car/tech_spec.asp?spe...
http://automobilio.info/en/BMW/3er/3er-E36/318-is-...
Jack Dupp said:
Also the bridge I used is for going in to the council tip so it would have to be accurate to a certain degree or they would be under/over charging people/businesses so i'm sure they have it calibrated regularly and be quite accurate.
I used a similar one Jack to weigh my cars and was told it was accurate to +/-15kg. I have to say I didn't suspect any conspiracy and the 1420kg my 328SE weighed on there seemed about right for an esr, heated leather and climate equipped saloon with half a tank.I remember the 318ti Compact that Autocar tested weighed about 1259kg unladen and they commented that it was heavier than both the coupe by 40-50kg as BMW used more stiffening on the shell because of the hatchback aperture
Kawasicki said:
Here you go (just 7 links from the 500,000 odd google results)
http://www.cars-data.com/en/bmw-318is-coupe-140hp-...
http://www.carinf.com/en/78a048286.html
http://www.i0100.com/us/bmw-318is_ts340mt_p0.htm
http://www.carsplusplus.com/specs1991/bmw_318is_co...
http://eng.motorsporlari.net/car/tech_spec.asp?spe...
http://automobilio.info/en/BMW/3er/3er-E36/318-is-...
Oh im sorry i should have specified REPUTEABLE sources, You know sites thats agree on everything about the car not just the weight. http://www.cars-data.com/en/bmw-318is-coupe-140hp-...
http://www.carinf.com/en/78a048286.html
http://www.i0100.com/us/bmw-318is_ts340mt_p0.htm
http://www.carsplusplus.com/specs1991/bmw_318is_co...
http://eng.motorsporlari.net/car/tech_spec.asp?spe...
http://automobilio.info/en/BMW/3er/3er-E36/318-is-...
Massive differances between tyre sizes with even one or two sites believing that despite identiclally wide tyres the rears are lower profile.
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