RE: SOTW: Bargain British Cabrios
Discussion
iva cosworth said:
300bhp/ton said:
Funny though as Saab didn't and used it for quite some time and even turbocharged it! 
Although I'm not sure upuntil when.
SAAB stopped using their version of the 1854cc Triumph lump of poo in about 1974 and from then on Although I'm not sure upuntil when.Edited by 300bhp/ton on Friday 24th June 09:42
used the 1985cc B20 engine which is similar but 10 times better.
Cylinder head design and timing chain far superior in the 2.0 litre
Yeah found this:
interweb said:
The Saab B engine is based on the Triumph Slant-4 engine and replaced their aging two-stroke engine. When it was decided to develop a new Saab model in 1964, the Saab 99, the decision was also made to give it a modern four-stroke engine. A contract was signed with Triumph to deliver their soon to be complete 1.5 liter engine to use in the Saab 99. The engine was enlarged to 1.75 liters before delivery started, and later enlarged again to 1.85 liters. In 1972 Saab begun domestic production of the engine, effectively creating the Saab B engine.
This engine shared much with the original Triumph design, including bore centers and bearings. In 1977, Saab added a turbocharger, creating one of the earliest turbocharged engines in volume production. This was placed in the Saab 99 and early 900 Turbo models.
In 1981, Saab began lightening and redesigning the engine, creating the Saab H engine.
This engine shared much with the original Triumph design, including bore centers and bearings. In 1977, Saab added a turbocharger, creating one of the earliest turbocharged engines in volume production. This was placed in the Saab 99 and early 900 Turbo models.
In 1981, Saab began lightening and redesigning the engine, creating the Saab H engine.
MGTF in that lovely blue and black leather, Yum.
Jeez I wish stuff like this was available for a grand when I was 20, all we 'ad in them days were rusting turds (advertised as "classics"). Blowing exhaust, so fecking what!!
Slightly faster than an MX5 (not round corners but nearly) with 10 more mpg.
Keep the hydragas, bloomin comfy and good handling.
Wasnt it consistly voted worlds most beautiful car by some italian in the know?
TR7 in biege / check cloth, brown roof, ueber cool colour combo, yet still a decentish drive. Personally prefer X19s but still this has a more golfable boot. Both great choices. Escort, electric roof, would make a great holiday wagon.
Fantastic sheds IMO, bravo the riggster.
ps ignore the whiners
Jeez I wish stuff like this was available for a grand when I was 20, all we 'ad in them days were rusting turds (advertised as "classics"). Blowing exhaust, so fecking what!!
Slightly faster than an MX5 (not round corners but nearly) with 10 more mpg.
Keep the hydragas, bloomin comfy and good handling.
Wasnt it consistly voted worlds most beautiful car by some italian in the know?
TR7 in biege / check cloth, brown roof, ueber cool colour combo, yet still a decentish drive. Personally prefer X19s but still this has a more golfable boot. Both great choices. Escort, electric roof, would make a great holiday wagon.
Fantastic sheds IMO, bravo the riggster.
ps ignore the whiners
300bhp/ton said:
From the TR Register.... 
1975 TR7 2.0 FHC
So actually it wasn't slower than the TR6 as the 150hp TR6 had not been available for some time....
Lap times, drag strip, braking & cornering G also all favoured the TR7.
The SOTW...you know, the car under discussion | TR6 PI | TR6 CARB |
| CP Series 150bhp at 5500rpm | CC Series 104bhp at 4500rpm |
| CR Series 125bhp at 5000rpm | CF series 106bhp at 4900rpm |
| PERFORMANCE DATA | TR6 PI (CP) (AUTOCAR) | TR6 PI (CR) (TRIUMPH) | TR6 CARB (CC) (ROAD) | TR6 CARB (CF) (TRIUMPH) |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0 - 60 mph | 8.2 s | 9.5 s | 10.7 s | 11.5 s |
1975 TR7 2.0 FHC
| 0 - 60 mph | 9.2 s |
So actually it wasn't slower than the TR6 as the 150hp TR6 had not been available for some time....
Lap times, drag strip, braking & cornering G also all favoured the TR7.
is a SOFT-TOP, so your figures are pretty meaningless.I believe the lowest powered TR6 produced for the BRITISH market was the 125bhp model. The gutless (emissions) ones were exported, just as the vast majority of the TR8s that people have been harping on about were.
Well yes, I would damn well hope that a newer model would be able to out-handle the older one.
The TR7 was a TR in name only, however competent it may have been in certain areas. Not good enough even to have been a travesty.
Edited to add: Where are the TR7 soft-top figures, for a fairer comparison ?
Edited by grahamw48 on Sunday 26th June 16:52
bencollins said:
MGTF in that lovely blue and black leather, Yum.
Jeez I wish stuff like this was available for a grand when I was 20, all we 'ad in them days were rusting turds (advertised as "classics"). Blowing exhaust, so fecking what!!
Slightly faster than an MX5 (not round corners but nearly) with 10 more mpg.
Keep the hydragas, bloomin comfy and good handling.
Wasnt it consistly voted worlds most beautiful car by some italian in the know?
TR7 in biege / check cloth, brown roof, ueber cool colour combo, yet still a decentish drive. Personally prefer X19s but still this has a more golfable boot. Both great choices. Escort, electric roof, would make a great holiday wagon.
Fantastic sheds IMO, bravo the riggster.
ps ignore the whiners
Ignore the whiners ?Jeez I wish stuff like this was available for a grand when I was 20, all we 'ad in them days were rusting turds (advertised as "classics"). Blowing exhaust, so fecking what!!
Slightly faster than an MX5 (not round corners but nearly) with 10 more mpg.
Keep the hydragas, bloomin comfy and good handling.
Wasnt it consistly voted worlds most beautiful car by some italian in the know?
TR7 in biege / check cloth, brown roof, ueber cool colour combo, yet still a decentish drive. Personally prefer X19s but still this has a more golfable boot. Both great choices. Escort, electric roof, would make a great holiday wagon.
Fantastic sheds IMO, bravo the riggster.
ps ignore the whiners
Oh, you mean the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY ?
What are you, a politician ?
Selective quoting there. ^^^^^
Carb TR6 was US market specification, although some have been reimported.
The Standing quarter of the later 125BHP TR6 was identical to the Two-seater Dolomite. But the TR6 had a higher top speed. Even with the lowest powered export carb models.
Considering the TR6 Carb and the Two-seater Dolomite were quoted as having only 1BHP difference it suggested that no aerodynamic progress had been made.
The power reduction from 150BHP to 125BHP for domestic models was prompted by emissions regulations when new. As there was no emission test as part of the MOT many new buyers had the car put straight back to 150BHP specification (or more).
Considering the price of the replacement car was far higher than the outgoing TR6, you could have put it back to 150+ BHP and still have a lot of change.
You could order the TR6 with an overdrive which gave 6 or 7 gears dependent on year, plus a variety of back axle ratios. You could always keep it in the power band and this made fast cross country work much quicker. The Two-seater Dolomite made do with four, or five gears on later models. Even the Dolomite Sprint had the overdrive.
On the road both 150 and 125 versions of the TR6 regularly trounced the abortion. So did the Dolomite Sprint despite its greater weight.
Ultimately the real test was not performance but the perceptions of those who bought new Triumph cars.
British Leyland failed to deliver the quality that had formerly been associated with the Triumph brand, alienating many owners and destroying brand loyalty.
The lack of continuity with preceding TR’s and a new design cues that were fashion, but not style alienated others.
When the E Type ceased production the motoring press hailed the TR6 as “the last hairy-chested British sportscar”, which wasn’t strictly true because it ignored smaller makers.
The TR6 had appealed to men and the replacement just didn’t.
In those days hairy chests were still a sign of masculinity and appealed to women. I still recall the shock when someone I grew up with ordered a half of lager in England years before he came out. Lager was still a ladies drink. For a man to order lager was still a sign of effeminacy unless Tropical Dress was being worn.
Driving a Two-seater Dolomite then was regarded as almost the equivalent of outing yourself. Today driving a hairdresser’s car is harmless, back then it mattered.
In England it appealed to poseurs rather than drivers; housewives rather than husbands. Worse still it had been designed at a time when proposed health & safety legislation in America was threatening to outlaw open top cars. The marketing strategy was to sell ‘a safe little European fashion accessory’ to middle class American husbands as a gift for their wives.
It wasn’t an image the existing customers wanted to be associated with and we voted with our cheque books.
When a brand alienates its core base of customers then it’s an incredibly risky business strategy. Relatively few existing TR owners bought the replacement. I knew people who had pre-ordered the new model and were terribly disappointed when they took delivery. They kept it only a few months before either trading back to a TR6 or something else altogether.
Dumping on your existing customers is a recipe for disaster unless you can grab a far larger or more lucrative market. Leyland made many errors that compounded to wreck much of the British motor industry. This abortion was a prime example.
Carb TR6 was US market specification, although some have been reimported.
The Standing quarter of the later 125BHP TR6 was identical to the Two-seater Dolomite. But the TR6 had a higher top speed. Even with the lowest powered export carb models.
Considering the TR6 Carb and the Two-seater Dolomite were quoted as having only 1BHP difference it suggested that no aerodynamic progress had been made.
The power reduction from 150BHP to 125BHP for domestic models was prompted by emissions regulations when new. As there was no emission test as part of the MOT many new buyers had the car put straight back to 150BHP specification (or more).
Considering the price of the replacement car was far higher than the outgoing TR6, you could have put it back to 150+ BHP and still have a lot of change.
You could order the TR6 with an overdrive which gave 6 or 7 gears dependent on year, plus a variety of back axle ratios. You could always keep it in the power band and this made fast cross country work much quicker. The Two-seater Dolomite made do with four, or five gears on later models. Even the Dolomite Sprint had the overdrive.
On the road both 150 and 125 versions of the TR6 regularly trounced the abortion. So did the Dolomite Sprint despite its greater weight.
Ultimately the real test was not performance but the perceptions of those who bought new Triumph cars.
British Leyland failed to deliver the quality that had formerly been associated with the Triumph brand, alienating many owners and destroying brand loyalty.
The lack of continuity with preceding TR’s and a new design cues that were fashion, but not style alienated others.
When the E Type ceased production the motoring press hailed the TR6 as “the last hairy-chested British sportscar”, which wasn’t strictly true because it ignored smaller makers.
The TR6 had appealed to men and the replacement just didn’t.
In those days hairy chests were still a sign of masculinity and appealed to women. I still recall the shock when someone I grew up with ordered a half of lager in England years before he came out. Lager was still a ladies drink. For a man to order lager was still a sign of effeminacy unless Tropical Dress was being worn.
Driving a Two-seater Dolomite then was regarded as almost the equivalent of outing yourself. Today driving a hairdresser’s car is harmless, back then it mattered.
In England it appealed to poseurs rather than drivers; housewives rather than husbands. Worse still it had been designed at a time when proposed health & safety legislation in America was threatening to outlaw open top cars. The marketing strategy was to sell ‘a safe little European fashion accessory’ to middle class American husbands as a gift for their wives.
It wasn’t an image the existing customers wanted to be associated with and we voted with our cheque books.
When a brand alienates its core base of customers then it’s an incredibly risky business strategy. Relatively few existing TR owners bought the replacement. I knew people who had pre-ordered the new model and were terribly disappointed when they took delivery. They kept it only a few months before either trading back to a TR6 or something else altogether.
Dumping on your existing customers is a recipe for disaster unless you can grab a far larger or more lucrative market. Leyland made many errors that compounded to wreck much of the British motor industry. This abortion was a prime example.
VeeFour said:
grahamw48 said:
Ignore the whiners ?
Oh, you mean the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY ?
What are you, a politician ?
He lost me when he started wibbling about 'golfable boots'. As if that has ever been a priority in a sportscar.Oh, you mean the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY ?
What are you, a politician ?
For me, a nice charming classic rorty convertible down a B road with birds chirping at reasonable speed/cornering is motoring nirvana. Especially when Im driving to a golf course. Though i wouldnt say no to good brakes. Wibbling.
Ps Im amazed this thread did not descend into a K-HGF the british car industry etc
debate.
In repsonse to someone who is obviously a TR owner in one of the previous replies... I have owned many many TR and MG cars of the late 60s and 70s included in this
I have owned both a TR7 (which i converted to 16v sprint) and an early MX5 and can honestly say that the MX5 beats the TR7 hands down in every department.
The tr7 handled like a boat and was just pretty awful in all other respects - quite honestly the worst TR ever made by BL pandering to the american market.
I have owned both a TR7 (which i converted to 16v sprint) and an early MX5 and can honestly say that the MX5 beats the TR7 hands down in every department.
The tr7 handled like a boat and was just pretty awful in all other respects - quite honestly the worst TR ever made by BL pandering to the american market.
Edited by hedgefinder on Sunday 26th June 17:38
When a brand alienates its core base of customers then it’s an incredibly risky business strategy. Relatively few existing TR owners bought the replacement. I knew people who had pre-ordered the new model and were terribly disappointed when they took delivery. They kept it only a few months before either trading back to a TR6 or something else altogether.
Dumping on your existing customers is a recipe for disaster unless you can grab a far larger or more lucrative market. Leyland made many errors that compounded to wreck much of the British motor industry. This abortion was a prime example.
[/quote]
it wasn't quite like this. I was a kid when the TR7 came out, I would go on to be the target audience, sportscars are bought by the young as well! The hairy chest thing just wasn't fashionable anymore and the TR6 looked dated by the mid 70s, then of course the term classic car didn't exist in the terms it does now. In 76 the TR7 said 'this is tomorrow' and I loved it and had the free autocar poster on my wall with a drophead around 1979. When the MR2 came out it just seemed like a thought out TR7. Prices for TR7s held brilliantly through the eighties too. The TR6 was a 60s car, the TR7 a car for the eighties and the planned family of them could have done Triumph well had the money been there to develop them. It was the economic cycle plus the build quality that did for them. Michael Edwards just didn't see profit margins in sportcars, now things are different. Finally it was great to see a British company re define the sporstcar, by 76 it was correct that it should be more than what MG Offered and it was modern, I'm sure the 40 plus brigade moaned but they were probably still listening to Elvis.
Uncle Fester said:
When a brand alienates its core base of customers then it’s an incredibly risky business strategy. Relatively few existing TR owners bought the replacement. I knew people who had pre-ordered the new model and were terribly disappointed when they took delivery. They kept it only a few months before either trading back to a TR6 or something else altogether.
Dumping on your existing customers is a recipe for disaster unless you can grab a far larger or more lucrative market. Leyland made many errors that compounded to wreck much of the British motor industry. This abortion was a prime example.
what a load of bDumping on your existing customers is a recipe for disaster unless you can grab a far larger or more lucrative market. Leyland made many errors that compounded to wreck much of the British motor industry. This abortion was a prime example.
ks and you know it if you could see past your own nose.The Triumph TR6 (1969–76) is a British six-cylinder sports car and the best-seller of the TR range built by Triumph when production ended in July 1976. This record was then surpassed by the TR7. Of the 94,619 TR6s produced, 86,249 were exported; only 8,370 were sold in the UK.
In total, 112,368 hardtop TR7s were built with an additional 28,864 softtop/convertibles, and approximately 2,500 V8 engined TR8s. Making a total of 143,732 units.
So most TR6's were exported anyway.... to the same market(s) as the TR7 was sold in. And The TR7/8 sold half as many units again over the TR6.
Opinions are fine - but you are talking utter crap and bulls
t which is clouding your judgment of the facts.hedgefinder said:
In repsonse to someone who is obviously a TR owner in one of the previous replies... I have owned many many TR and MG cars of the late 60s and 70s included in this
I have owned both a TR7 (which i converted to 16v sprint) and an early MX5 and can honestly say that the MX5 beats the TR7 hands down in every department.
The tr7 handled like a boat and was just pretty awful in all other respects - quite honestly the worst TR ever made by BL pandering to the american market.
I never saw them as proper TR's myself and despite the numerous posts by certain people to the contrary still beleive, as you do that they are bloody awful cars. I have owned both a TR7 (which i converted to 16v sprint) and an early MX5 and can honestly say that the MX5 beats the TR7 hands down in every department.
The tr7 handled like a boat and was just pretty awful in all other respects - quite honestly the worst TR ever made by BL pandering to the american market.
grahamw48 said:
bencollins said:
MGTF in that lovely blue and black leather, Yum.
Jeez I wish stuff like this was available for a grand when I was 20, all we 'ad in them days were rusting turds (advertised as "classics"). Blowing exhaust, so fecking what!!
Slightly faster than an MX5 (not round corners but nearly) with 10 more mpg.
Keep the hydragas, bloomin comfy and good handling.
Wasnt it consistly voted worlds most beautiful car by some italian in the know?
TR7 in biege / check cloth, brown roof, ueber cool colour combo, yet still a decentish drive. Personally prefer X19s but still this has a more golfable boot. Both great choices. Escort, electric roof, would make a great holiday wagon.
Fantastic sheds IMO, bravo the riggster.
ps ignore the whiners
Ignore the whiners ?Jeez I wish stuff like this was available for a grand when I was 20, all we 'ad in them days were rusting turds (advertised as "classics"). Blowing exhaust, so fecking what!!
Slightly faster than an MX5 (not round corners but nearly) with 10 more mpg.
Keep the hydragas, bloomin comfy and good handling.
Wasnt it consistly voted worlds most beautiful car by some italian in the know?
TR7 in biege / check cloth, brown roof, ueber cool colour combo, yet still a decentish drive. Personally prefer X19s but still this has a more golfable boot. Both great choices. Escort, electric roof, would make a great holiday wagon.
Fantastic sheds IMO, bravo the riggster.
ps ignore the whiners
Oh, you mean the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY ?
What are you, a politician ?
grahamw48 said:
P9UNK said:
Finally it was great to see a British company re define the sporstcar
VeeFour said:
I can only imagine that the people who'd buy that book are 40 year old virgins, with a collection of anoraks and beige polyester slacks.... Who still live with their mum.
Definitely excludes me then. 
Any petrolhead who had a driving licence when that horrid car was given a TR badge will know precisely where I and so many others are coming from...don't care if it sold 10 million and became car of the year.
Anyway, bored with all this now.
300bhp/ton said:
grahamw48 said:
P9UNK said:
Finally it was great to see a British company re define the sporstcar
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