Electronic handbrakes why
Discussion
va1o said:
Exactly. I managed to emergency release a new Audi last year which I'd never even sat inside before nor read the manual. Just showed how little the woman driving the car knew and the police who came to the rescue.
You expect the police to read and learn the manuals of every car? 
JLR have a contract with the AA for disposing of their broken down vehicles from the site of potential customers and the two most common faults are apparently little used, urban cars shutting down due to emissions or filter issues or problems with the electric handbrake.
Also the contract is to recover not roadside repair so often the cars get transported all the way to a depot where a chap just presses the release and job done.
You know I wondered what a good friend of mine was going on about when he told me over the phone some months ago, that he had to sell his new Passat cos it kept rolling off his drive... He said he had a electronic handbrake whereby you have to push a button. Went over my head a bit, never experienced one, but in any other car you'd just pull the hand brake lever another couple of notches.
Said it was a bit disconserting to find his car has rolled off the drive and nearly across the road after a few weeks of owning it.
Said it was a bit disconserting to find his car has rolled off the drive and nearly across the road after a few weeks of owning it.
My main gripe with them aside from the outright annoyance is:
A Handbrake is a standard thing since the early dawn of motoring. 99% of cars the system was the same, apart from Mercs & that stupid footbrake thing, there are variations in lever design but they all work on the same principal.
Electronic ones however are NOT designed to operate in a standard way, some are foot brake sensitive to operate, some are up lever, some are down lever, some cant even be found without spending 10 mins looking for it, until the 5 year old in the passenger seat starts button toggling. They are all in different places of differing operations, sometimes differing in operation depending on the spec of the car. That is what is stupid about them.
For those who dare want to try it, the general rule for emergency application simply applies full braking on all four wheels for a very abrubt stop. Well some of them that is!
A Handbrake is a standard thing since the early dawn of motoring. 99% of cars the system was the same, apart from Mercs & that stupid footbrake thing, there are variations in lever design but they all work on the same principal.
Electronic ones however are NOT designed to operate in a standard way, some are foot brake sensitive to operate, some are up lever, some are down lever, some cant even be found without spending 10 mins looking for it, until the 5 year old in the passenger seat starts button toggling. They are all in different places of differing operations, sometimes differing in operation depending on the spec of the car. That is what is stupid about them.
For those who dare want to try it, the general rule for emergency application simply applies full braking on all four wheels for a very abrubt stop. Well some of them that is!
cptsideways said:
My main gripe with them aside from the outright annoyance is:
A Handbrake is a standard thing since the early dawn of motoring. 99% of cars the system was the same, apart from Mercs & that stupid footbrake thing, there are variations in lever design but they all work on the same principal.
Electronic ones however are NOT designed to operate in a standard way, some are foot brake sensitive to operate, some are up lever, some are down lever, some cant even be found without spending 10 mins looking for it, until the 5 year old in the passenger seat starts button toggling. They are all in different places of differing operations, sometimes differing in operation depending on the spec of the car. That is what is stupid about them.
For those who dare want to try it, the general rule for emergency application simply applies full braking on all four wheels for a very abrubt stop. Well some of them that is!
And so once you have gotten used to the system in your car is the average driver going to be more or less inclined to stick with that brand when it comes time to change? A Handbrake is a standard thing since the early dawn of motoring. 99% of cars the system was the same, apart from Mercs & that stupid footbrake thing, there are variations in lever design but they all work on the same principal.
Electronic ones however are NOT designed to operate in a standard way, some are foot brake sensitive to operate, some are up lever, some are down lever, some cant even be found without spending 10 mins looking for it, until the 5 year old in the passenger seat starts button toggling. They are all in different places of differing operations, sometimes differing in operation depending on the spec of the car. That is what is stupid about them.
For those who dare want to try it, the general rule for emergency application simply applies full braking on all four wheels for a very abrubt stop. Well some of them that is!
They are nice after sales earners as they are part of the league of items that force people to keep using the seller network for maintenance and at the same time they enforce brand loyalty.
It really has very little to do with being a better product than a normal handbrake as far as the consumer is concerned. It is just one of the tools for locking the consumer not just into the car's life cycle revenue but also the consumer's life cycle!!
DonkeyApple said:
cptsideways said:
My main gripe with them aside from the outright annoyance is:
A Handbrake is a standard thing since the early dawn of motoring. 99% of cars the system was the same, apart from Mercs & that stupid footbrake thing, there are variations in lever design but they all work on the same principal.
Electronic ones however are NOT designed to operate in a standard way, some are foot brake sensitive to operate, some are up lever, some are down lever, some cant even be found without spending 10 mins looking for it, until the 5 year old in the passenger seat starts button toggling. They are all in different places of differing operations, sometimes differing in operation depending on the spec of the car. That is what is stupid about them.
For those who dare want to try it, the general rule for emergency application simply applies full braking on all four wheels for a very abrubt stop. Well some of them that is!
And so once you have gotten used to the system in your car is the average driver going to be more or less inclined to stick with that brand when it comes time to change? A Handbrake is a standard thing since the early dawn of motoring. 99% of cars the system was the same, apart from Mercs & that stupid footbrake thing, there are variations in lever design but they all work on the same principal.
Electronic ones however are NOT designed to operate in a standard way, some are foot brake sensitive to operate, some are up lever, some are down lever, some cant even be found without spending 10 mins looking for it, until the 5 year old in the passenger seat starts button toggling. They are all in different places of differing operations, sometimes differing in operation depending on the spec of the car. That is what is stupid about them.
For those who dare want to try it, the general rule for emergency application simply applies full braking on all four wheels for a very abrubt stop. Well some of them that is!
They are nice after sales earners as they are part of the league of items that force people to keep using the seller network for maintenance and at the same time they enforce brand loyalty.
It really has very little to do with being a better product than a normal handbrake as far as the consumer is concerned. It is just one of the tools for locking the consumer not just into the car's life cycle revenue but also the consumer's life cycle!!
Mazda 5 with hill hold
Mazda 6 with hill hold
Mazda CX-5 with hill hold
Mazda MX-5
MitchT said:
jamieduff1981 said:
MitchT said:
gf15 said:
More complexity for no benefit.
No, there is a benefit... The manufacturer gets to plumb some software into it which will be programmed to 'fail' every so often, thus facilitating the opportunity for them to relieve you of a three figure sum plus VAT just for them to re-code it at virtually zero cost to themselves... just like BMW with their s
tty electronic steering lock. Old sheds never never looked more appealing.cptsideways said:
DonkeyApple said:
cptsideways said:
My main gripe with them aside from the outright annoyance is:
A Handbrake is a standard thing since the early dawn of motoring. 99% of cars the system was the same, apart from Mercs & that stupid footbrake thing, there are variations in lever design but they all work on the same principal.
Electronic ones however are NOT designed to operate in a standard way, some are foot brake sensitive to operate, some are up lever, some are down lever, some cant even be found without spending 10 mins looking for it, until the 5 year old in the passenger seat starts button toggling. They are all in different places of differing operations, sometimes differing in operation depending on the spec of the car. That is what is stupid about them.
For those who dare want to try it, the general rule for emergency application simply applies full braking on all four wheels for a very abrubt stop. Well some of them that is!
And so once you have gotten used to the system in your car is the average driver going to be more or less inclined to stick with that brand when it comes time to change? A Handbrake is a standard thing since the early dawn of motoring. 99% of cars the system was the same, apart from Mercs & that stupid footbrake thing, there are variations in lever design but they all work on the same principal.
Electronic ones however are NOT designed to operate in a standard way, some are foot brake sensitive to operate, some are up lever, some are down lever, some cant even be found without spending 10 mins looking for it, until the 5 year old in the passenger seat starts button toggling. They are all in different places of differing operations, sometimes differing in operation depending on the spec of the car. That is what is stupid about them.
For those who dare want to try it, the general rule for emergency application simply applies full braking on all four wheels for a very abrubt stop. Well some of them that is!
They are nice after sales earners as they are part of the league of items that force people to keep using the seller network for maintenance and at the same time they enforce brand loyalty.
It really has very little to do with being a better product than a normal handbrake as far as the consumer is concerned. It is just one of the tools for locking the consumer not just into the car's life cycle revenue but also the consumer's life cycle!!
Mazda 5 with hill hold
Mazda 6 with hill hold
Mazda CX-5 with hill hold
Mazda MX-5
Like it or not, EPBs are here to stay and like it or not, they do remove a large item not required when driving from the cabin where ergonomics are the in-thing and space is at a premium.
I've never driven a Passatt as I've no interest in Volkswagens and most of the complaints on this thread involve the word "Passatt", so I surmise that the Passatt system is indeed crap.
The prinicple of the EPB is sound.
So the general conclusion is; they are cack.
We have a 61 plate VW Camper with a load of extras, mostly electronic stuff. But I didn't want the often specced DSG box. Thank gawd as the battery went flat (thanks to one of the current sucking extras) but I was easily able to bump start it.
My point being that some traditional tech is better than some modern tech.
Oh and how about stereos that used to switch on immediately? Almost a thing of the past with satnav multimedia systems (like we have in the camper).
We have a 61 plate VW Camper with a load of extras, mostly electronic stuff. But I didn't want the often specced DSG box. Thank gawd as the battery went flat (thanks to one of the current sucking extras) but I was easily able to bump start it.
My point being that some traditional tech is better than some modern tech.
Oh and how about stereos that used to switch on immediately? Almost a thing of the past with satnav multimedia systems (like we have in the camper).
Vladimir said:
So the general conclusion is; they are cack.
We have a 61 plate VW Camper with a load of extras, mostly electronic stuff. But I didn't want the often specced DSG box. Thank gawd as the battery went flat (thanks to one of the current sucking extras) but I was easily able to bump start it.
My point being that some traditional tech is better than some modern tech.
Oh and how about stereos that used to switch on immediately? Almost a thing of the past with satnav multimedia systems (like we have in the camper).
No, the general conclusion is that Volkswagen is cack.We have a 61 plate VW Camper with a load of extras, mostly electronic stuff. But I didn't want the often specced DSG box. Thank gawd as the battery went flat (thanks to one of the current sucking extras) but I was easily able to bump start it.
My point being that some traditional tech is better than some modern tech.
Oh and how about stereos that used to switch on immediately? Almost a thing of the past with satnav multimedia systems (like we have in the camper).
I've got it on my 5 series, and I hate it. Several times now I have definitely pulled the switch and the handbrake has not engaged. This may be my fault, if I have not flicked it robustly enough. But still, as a user experience it sucks. Last week I got a knock on the door from my neighbour to say that my car had rolled off the driveway and was now sitting on the road, blocking both lanes.
I have *never* failed to engage a manual handbrake.
I have *never* failed to engage a manual handbrake.
Vladimir said:
jamieduff1981 said:
No, the general conclusion is that Volkswagen is cack.
My exact opinion of 95% of Jags. Including the horrific X type and the S Type (excluding the R) Maybe that will change when I hit 50?
All cars can run flat. It's handy when you can easily re-start them.
Ozzie Osmond said:
I assume it's impossible to apply the parking brake if you have a flat battery. For that reason alone they should never have been allowed.
And, from what I've heard, it's impossible to use flashing orange hazard lights with a flat battery too. Really should never have allowed those - with semaphores I'm sure there was some way to jam the arms up...My car's got an electric handbrake and it seems fine. It's got some convenience advantages, and it frees up cabin space. It doesn't annoy me at all, and hasn't gone wrong yet.
If I could have chosen a mechanical one on the same car, then maybe I would have to avoid potential future repair bills, but my Dad used to say exactly the same about electronic fuel injection 20 years ago...
Yes they're something to go wrong, but they have advantages too and, in my experience (which is VW group by the way) they're nothing like the disaster people are making out in this thread!
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