Electronic handbrakes why
Discussion
AJB said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
I assume it's impossible to apply the parking brake if you have a flat battery. For that reason alone they should never have been allowed.
And, from what I've heard, it's impossible to use flashing orange hazard lights with a flat battery too.Ozzie Osmond said:
AJB said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
I assume it's impossible to apply the parking brake if you have a flat battery. For that reason alone they should never have been allowed.
And, from what I've heard, it's impossible to use flashing orange hazard lights with a flat battery too.As to your physical world solution, I know hydraulics are physical world these days but I'm sure we could have had exactly the same conversation when hydraulic brakes first came in.
A solution to a problem nobody had. Unreliable, with unproven hoses and seals to fail. Tie you in the manufacturer - can't just make up a new linkage at home. Complexity for the sake of it, with no real benefits. Safety issue - what happens when a hose bursts and you can't stop. Ought to be banned, really - the car won't stop if it runs out of hydraulic fluid because of a leak. Mechanical world problems ought to have mechanical world solutions.
Maybe I've missed it as I skimmed the thread but: if it's an emergency brake (hence the term e-brake I believe), how does one apply it in an emergency when the normal brakes have failed? Does it even work?
I tried it in a Merc E-class. It has a little ratchety-pedal on the far left to apply. Great, except it's right where I would normally rest my foot in such a car. It really seemed like much more hassle and I could not fathom in what way it was easier/more convenient, plus the issue already discussed about having to work out how it works in each and every car you get into. So getting into an unfamiliar car becomes like stepping from one airplane to another. Next they'll start switching the pedal functions about - with throttle-by-wire and brake-by-wire (coming to F1 soon, coming to the showroom soon after I sincerely hope not!), someone could hack the car and change the functions over. Progress? I don't think so.
I tried it in a Merc E-class. It has a little ratchety-pedal on the far left to apply. Great, except it's right where I would normally rest my foot in such a car. It really seemed like much more hassle and I could not fathom in what way it was easier/more convenient, plus the issue already discussed about having to work out how it works in each and every car you get into. So getting into an unfamiliar car becomes like stepping from one airplane to another. Next they'll start switching the pedal functions about - with throttle-by-wire and brake-by-wire (coming to F1 soon, coming to the showroom soon after I sincerely hope not!), someone could hack the car and change the functions over. Progress? I don't think so.
RenesisEvo said:
Maybe I've missed it as I skimmed the thread but: if it's an emergency brake (hence the term e-brake I believe), how does one apply it in an emergency when the normal brakes have failed? Does it even work?
You pull the switch up and hold it up, and it stops the car. Never needed to try it in mine, but that's what the handbook says. Yes, it's an emergency brake as well as a parking brake, and they've thought of that.RenesisEvo said:
I tried it in a Merc E-class. It has a little ratchety-pedal on the far left to apply. Great, except it's right where I would normally rest my foot in such a car. It really seemed like much more hassle and I could not fathom in what way it was easier/more convenient, plus the issue already discussed about having to work out how it works in each and every car you get into. So getting into an unfamiliar car becomes like stepping from one airplane to another.
Um - I think that might be one of the much loved mechanical parking brakes that lots of people are wishing they would stick with... Certainly cable operated mechanical parking brakes used to "work" that way on some Mercs. Fine in an auto, but completely useless when crawling up a hill in a manual...I wonder if they partly did the foot pedal thing to get more force on it. As I've already said, mechanical handbrakes working on discs on heavy cars are a bit compromised in my experience, and don't always work well. I think that's one of the reasons they've moved away from foot pedals and hand levers and over to an electrical system.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
jamieduff1981 said:
No, the general conclusion is that Volkswagen is cack.
The EPB in my Tiguan is great. 3 yrs old and no issues. Works perfectly, and who wants a great big plastic lever in the car when you don't have to have one.Many modern cars can't even be opened with a flat battery. That you can't release the hand brake without electrical power is the least of the worries!
AJB said:
You pull the switch up and hold it up, and it stops the car. Never needed to try it in mine, but that's what the handbook says. Yes, it's an emergency brake as well as a parking brake, and they've thought of that.
Thanks for that.Um - I think that might be one of the much loved mechanical parking brakes that lots of people are wishing they would stick with... Certainly cable operated mechanical parking brakes used to "work" that way on some Mercs. Fine in an auto, but completely useless when crawling up a hill in a manual...
I wonder if they partly did the foot pedal thing to get more force on it. As I've already said, mechanical handbrakes working on discs on heavy cars are a bit compromised in my experience, and don't always work well. I think that's one of the reasons they've moved away from foot pedals and hand levers and over to an electrical system.
Ultimately I believe that simple and reliable is better, so such systems don't appeal to me. That's not to say I can't see their advantages, but in this case the advantages seem almost intangible against a stack of disadvantages.
Does anyone like/prefer electronic handbrakes? Care to speak up?
Ozzie Osmond said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Many modern cars can't even be opened with a flat battery. That you can't release the hand brake without electrical power is the least of the worries!
That's not the issue is it .... how the hell do you APPLY the parking brake!!Edited by AJB on Wednesday 11th September 16:33
RenesisEvo said:
Ultimately I believe that simple and reliable is better, so such systems don't appeal to me. That's not to say I can't see their advantages, but in this case the advantages seem almost intangible against a stack of disadvantages.
Does anyone like/prefer electronic handbrakes? Care to speak up?
Not sure. So far I prefer my electronic handbrake for the convenience (no need to release it) and the centre console space it frees up. If it goes wrong, then I reserve the right to stop preferring it!!Does anyone like/prefer electronic handbrakes? Care to speak up?
Having said that, adjusting the mechanical handbrake on my E39 5 series was no fun at all (poking screwdriver through one of the wheel bolt holes and trying to turn a tiny wheel that you can't see in a direction that you can't remember) and it never worked all that well even when perfectly adjusted, so I wasn't a big fan of that either.
AJB said:
I honestly can't think of a situation in 20 years of driving where I've ever had a battery so dead that even an electric motor wouldn't work, the handbrake has been off, and it would have been a problem if I couldn't apply the handbrake.
should we conclude that you,- Don't work on your own cars
- Don't live on a slope, and
- Have never needed to move a car with a disconnected battery...?
Ozzie Osmond said:
AJB said:
I honestly can't think of a situation in 20 years of driving where I've ever had a battery so dead that even an electric motor wouldn't work, the handbrake has been off, and it would have been a problem if I couldn't apply the handbrake.
should we conclude that you,- Don't work on your own cars
- Don't live on a slope, and
- Have never needed to move a car with a disconnected battery...?
- Incorrect. I take them to garages as little as possible (although unfortunately manufacturer's warranty probably means that the one with the EPB will have to get its next couple of services at a dealer).
- Half correct. The drive slopes slightly-enough to need handbrake (or wheel chocks if working on brakes outdoors). The garage is pretty much level obviously.
- Incorrect. But I've got battery charger, jump leads and a booster battery thing, so it wouldn't have been a problem. If I'm not using a car for any length of time I leave the handbrake off anyway to stop the shoes rusting on.
Edited by AJB on Thursday 12th September 00:30
Interesting thread, but I am bemused by the number of people who use as a pro for an EPB the fact that it frees up cabin space. How much space does one need??? In 45 years of driving I can't recall a time when I have ever thought of a handbrake lever "well I wish that wasn't there because it takes up so much space". (Possible exception is when trying to get it on with the girl in the passenger seat....). Hmmm, maybe that is why they are popular.... 
I've had an Astra with this system and reverse paralell parking up a hill (In Tenby, Wales) was an utter nightmare with the handbrake seemingly randomly deciding when to engage/ disengage.
Watching a Range Rover sport drive down the road and the handbrake come on, when I flashed the guy as smoke was pouring from his rear brakes he said the car suddenly felt sluggish like the handbrake engaged while he was driving.
An uncles S-Type which the handbrake wouldn't release on, it being on a sloped driveway meant it needed to be recovered. No idea what happened after that though.
Mechanical handbrake, lovely things.
Dave!
Watching a Range Rover sport drive down the road and the handbrake come on, when I flashed the guy as smoke was pouring from his rear brakes he said the car suddenly felt sluggish like the handbrake engaged while he was driving.
An uncles S-Type which the handbrake wouldn't release on, it being on a sloped driveway meant it needed to be recovered. No idea what happened after that though.
Mechanical handbrake, lovely things.
Dave!
CR6ZZ said:
Interesting thread, but I am bemused by the number of people who use as a pro for an EPB the fact that it frees up cabin space. How much space does one need??? In 45 years of driving I can't recall a time when I have ever thought of a handbrake lever "well I wish that wasn't there because it takes up so much space". (Possible exception is when trying to get it on with the girl in the passenger seat....). Hmmm, maybe that is why they are popular....
I don't really know what to say to that. The how much space does one need question is one I pose to those who like to call estates "shooting brakes" to make them sound less like washing machine transporters. In terms of cabin space for the driver and front passenger it's obvious that it means that coocoon like spaces can be created with centre consoles up to a comfortable arm height with cupholders built in under sliding padded bits etc. We're not talking about cheap feeling low end cars with a lever bolted to the floor between the front seats. These are high end cars where interior design and comfort is high on the agenda of most buyers.I had issues with wobbly front brakes; two sets of disks later it was still rumbly.
A relative suggested leaving the handbrake off (the car is auto) at all times; problem sorted.
So I'd be happy with an EPB in an auto but not in a manual. Only slight issue is, in our manual camper, the handbrake catches the captains seat when it's rotated; not a very PH issue though...
A relative suggested leaving the handbrake off (the car is auto) at all times; problem sorted.
So I'd be happy with an EPB in an auto but not in a manual. Only slight issue is, in our manual camper, the handbrake catches the captains seat when it's rotated; not a very PH issue though...
Only used the system found in the XF and XJ. Love 'em. Flip o' the switch (1 finger) when in traffic, gentle bit of gas to get moving. Hills? No harder. Climbing back into my own car, suddenly the conventional way is up there with starter handles and ignition advance controls on the steering wheel...
Ozzie Osmond said:
jamieduff1981 said:
Many modern cars can't even be opened with a flat battery. That you can't release the hand brake without electrical power is the least of the worries!
That's not the issue is it .... how the hell do you APPLY the parking brake!!I still prefer a manual handbrake, though. It's been fine for the last hundred years.
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