RE: McLaren MP4-12C, Now With Added 'Phwoarr'

[JonRB]

AUDIHenry said:

This is just sad. Instead of standing by what they believe to be a superior product, McLaren is tripping over itself trying to implement dumb, cosmetic changes to the vehicle to please reviewers. How can you inspire confidence in your product in this way? When was the last time Ferrari scrambled to channel more noise into the cabin or otherwise take reporters' and reviewers' criticisms to heart? Hell, its cars are burning down left and right and it doesn't so much as raise a finger.

McLaren really can't win, can they.

[Daniel1]

AUDIHenry said:

This is just sad. Instead of standing by what they believe to be a superior product, McLaren is tripping over itself trying to implement dumb, cosmetic changes to the vehicle to please reviewers. How can you inspire confidence in your product in this way? When was the last time Ferrari scrambled to channel more noise into the cabin or otherwise take reporters' and reviewers' criticisms to heart? Hell, its cars are burning down left and right and it doesn't so much as raise a finger.

The alternative is to not listen to criticism? The only fault i can see here is that these areas should have been identified well before the press cars were issued.

And didnt Ferrari fix the glue problem?

[E21_Ross]

JonRB said:

AUDIHenry said:

This is just sad. Instead of standing by what they believe to be a superior product, McLaren is tripping over itself trying to implement dumb, cosmetic changes to the vehicle to please reviewers. How can you inspire confidence in your product in this way? When was the last time Ferrari scrambled to channel more noise into the cabin or otherwise take reporters' and reviewers' criticisms to heart? Hell, its cars are burning down left and right and it doesn't so much as raise a finger.

McLaren really can't win, can they.

no, as pointed out again here, allow me to explain.

1 - Mclaren release car - it's not noisy enough/not enough flare (even though they said it was aimed at daily driving etc)

2 - McLaren respond with bloody quick turn around to improve the car based on criticism - how pathetic, they haven't stuck with their car and they've changed it.


so, to sum up, if they hadn't have changed it, it would be subject to criticism for the reasons outlined, OR they change it, and they get criticism for changing it.

Silly huh.

[Walton]

I was chatting to one of the engineers at launch a few weeks ago.

His view was - look we've tried our best to create what we think customer's want. It's our first try, so of course we're not going to get it EXACTLY right. But, we've taken on board customer comments and will develop the car along those lines.

Fine with me....

[AUDIHenry]

E21_Ross said:

JonRB said:

AUDIHenry said:

This is just sad. Instead of standing by what they believe to be a superior product, McLaren is tripping over itself trying to implement dumb, cosmetic changes to the vehicle to please reviewers. How can you inspire confidence in your product in this way? When was the last time Ferrari scrambled to channel more noise into the cabin or otherwise take reporters' and reviewers' criticisms to heart? Hell, its cars are burning down left and right and it doesn't so much as raise a finger.

McLaren really can't win, can they.

no, as pointed out again here, allow me to explain.

1 - Mclaren release car - it's not noisy enough/not enough flare (even though they said it was aimed at daily driving etc)

2 - McLaren respond with bloody quick turn around to improve the car based on criticism - how pathetic, they haven't stuck with their car and they've changed it.


so, to sum up, if they hadn't have changed it, it would be subject to criticism for the reasons outlined, OR they change it, and they get criticism for changing it.

Silly huh.

I do see your point, but my point is that rather than being happy with the car they created, through tens of thousands of hours of R&D and testing, they've chosen to appease the reviewers to avoid possibly losing sales on the characteristics that annoying testers. Doesn't that sound stupid? They've essentially turned their back on everything that it was meant to represent, as much as they possibly could at this late stage, just to prevent the few "problems" from causing a sales issue. Is that genuine? When was the last time Lambo changed something as stupid as channeling noise into the cabin to please some naysayers?

That sort of disloyalty to their creation is the pathetic bit. And that is also the reason that McLaren will never be Ferrari or Lamborghini in the mass market.

[Dagnut]

AUDIHenry said:

E21_Ross said:

JonRB said:

AUDIHenry said:

This is just sad. Instead of standing by what they believe to be a superior product, McLaren is tripping over itself trying to implement dumb, cosmetic changes to the vehicle to please reviewers. How can you inspire confidence in your product in this way? When was the last time Ferrari scrambled to channel more noise into the cabin or otherwise take reporters' and reviewers' criticisms to heart? Hell, its cars are burning down left and right and it doesn't so much as raise a finger.

McLaren really can't win, can they.

no, as pointed out again here, allow me to explain.

1 - Mclaren release car - it's not noisy enough/not enough flare (even though they said it was aimed at daily driving etc)

2 - McLaren respond with bloody quick turn around to improve the car based on criticism - how pathetic, they haven't stuck with their car and they've changed it.


so, to sum up, if they hadn't have changed it, it would be subject to criticism for the reasons outlined, OR they change it, and they get criticism for changing it.

Silly huh.

I do see your point, but my point is that rather than being happy with the car they created, through tens of thousands of hours of R&D and testing, they've chosen to appease the reviewers to avoid possibly losing sales on the characteristics that annoying testers. Doesn't that sound stupid? They've essentially turned their back on everything that it was meant to represent, as much as they possibly could at this late stage, just to prevent the few "problems" from causing a sales issue. Is that genuine? When was the last time Lambo changed something as stupid as channeling noise into the cabin to please some naysayers?

That sort of disloyalty to their creation is the pathetic bit. And that is also the reason that McLaren will never be Ferrari or Lamborghini in the mass market.

Turned their back? by adding a new intake?

[LongLiveTazio]

That, given how quickly it was introduced, suggests that it was planned from the outset anyway but perhaps shelved due to some reason or another.

[Walton]

AFAIK a lot of thee mod's were planned following the customer comments from test drives at Dunsfold 3months ago.

[E21_Ross]

AUDIHenry said:

I do see your point, but my point is that rather than being happy with the car they created, through tens of thousands of hours of R&D and testing, they've chosen to appease the reviewers to avoid possibly losing sales on the characteristics that annoying testers. Doesn't that sound stupid? They've essentially turned their back on everything that it was meant to represent, as much as they possibly could at this late stage, just to prevent the few "problems" from causing a sales issue. Is that genuine? When was the last time Lambo changed something as stupid as channeling noise into the cabin to please some naysayers?

That sort of disloyalty to their creation is the pathetic bit. And that is also the reason that McLaren will never be Ferrari or Lamborghini in the mass market.

The extra noise is only in sport mode so the car is still every bit as quiet when you want to do a quiet trip! Sounds like win win

[andyclax1]

Walton said:

AFAIK a lot of thee mod's were planned following the customer comments from test drives at Dunsfold 3months ago.

yes,i can confirm that,many of the guys who went to Dunsfold passed their comments on,the driver days were partly for that reason as the cars were still PP.
For example the tension on the paddles was requested by jenson,but everyone on the day thought it was a little too harse,so its just been put back to were is was originally,people also mentioned the sound and steering feel,so these mods were probably in the pipeline anyway,afterall if Harry wants to take credit thats ok,its just good PR.
And as for the comment about Mclaren never being Ferrari,why do you think people want something different,maybe its because their core customers are being listened too.

[Hitch78]

I don't get the criticism. Manufacturer makes technically excellent car more fun. In what way is that not a good thing?

I used to be unimpressed but the more I see of this car the more I like it. Seems like a car you have to learn rather than just plug and play - that must be rewarding.

[DuncanM]

McLaren should be applauded for listening to their target audience be it car mags or future owners .

[Frik]

AUDIHenry said:

I do see your point, but my point is that rather than being happy with the car they created, through tens of thousands of hours of R&D and testing, they've chosen to appease the reviewers to avoid possibly losing sales on the characteristics that annoying testers. Doesn't that sound stupid? They've essentially turned their back on everything that it was meant to represent, as much as they possibly could at this late stage, just to prevent the few "problems" from causing a sales issue. Is that genuine?

Eh? The R&D process doesn't suddenly stop before the car reaches the masses. The views of early exposure to the public can be incredibly useful and is essentially just another part of the development process.

AUDIHenry said:

When was the last time Lambo changed something as stupid as channeling noise into the cabin to please some naysayers?

That sort of disloyalty to their creation is the pathetic bit. And that is also the reason that McLaren will never be Ferrari or Lamborghini in the mass market.

The only difference with McLaren is that they have gone public with the information that they have changed some areas of the car. The only difference. It is particularly harsh to choose those two Italian firms and suggest that they wouldn't do exactly what the customer wanted, that the issues related to nothing more than "making things sound a bit nicer" and that the products from either stable hadn't ever changed quite a lot throughout their development and production cycles.

[Mr Whippy]

What I don't understand is that many customers were involved in what THEY wanted from the car, so they were clearly happy with the cabin noise... or were they not?

I'm fairly surprised McLaren have done what they have in that regard. What of the customers who don't like the extra noise? Will it be an optional fitment part? Perhaps just have a few inserts of foam to tune the sound to your taste?


Part of me is happy McLaren have responded. What great sense to make your product what your customers want! However, making your product what a few journalists want is a bit iffy.
I wonder if McLaren have gone back and consulted with their customers with deposits/orders down in this regard? Are they know of the mind that the customers wishes should be seen with more value?

Responding to criticism is sensible, but responding to it blindly could be dangerous. Lets hope that McLaren can now consult effectively otherwise the McLaren might just end up being a mess in another way

Dave

[JonRB]

Mr Whippy said:

What I don't understand is that many customers were involved in what THEY wanted from the car, so they were clearly happy with the cabin noise... or were they not?

I'm fairly surprised McLaren have done what they have in that regard. What of the customers who don't like the extra noise? Will it be an optional fitment part? Perhaps just have a few inserts of foam to tune the sound to your taste?


Part of me is happy McLaren have responded. What great sense to make your product what your customers want! However, making your product what a few journalists want is a bit iffy.
I wonder if McLaren have gone back and consulted with their customers with deposits/orders down in this regard? Are they know of the mind that the customers wishes should be seen with more value?

Responding to criticism is sensible, but responding to it blindly could be dangerous. Lets hope that McLaren can now consult effectively otherwise the McLaren might just end up being a mess in another way

Dave

Given that the extra noise will only be available in sport mode (and therefore is able to be switched electronically), I would imagine that it would be simple enough for McLaren to tweak the settings for individual customers.

[Mr Whippy]

It's those such choices that confuse me.

The extra noise might be great to have while ambling around in town, but you don't want it in sport mode

They should just have a button for more or less noise. Not exactly rocket science

When a setting isn't really anything but preferential based on personal taste, it seems crazy to tie it away within another mode setting!


McLaren, making it complicated matters!

Dave

[E21_Ross]

Mr Whippy said:

It's those such choices that confuse me.

The extra noise might be great to have while ambling around in town, but you don't want it in sport mode

They should just have a button for more or less noise. Not exactly rocket science

When a setting isn't really anything but preferential based on personal taste, it seems crazy to tie it away within another mode setting!


McLaren, making it complicated matters!

Dave

most sports cars have this where, in sport mode, the exhaust notes become louder etc. this is nothing new, so i fail to see how aiming this criticism at mclaren is fair.

[Rich_W]

E21_Ross said:

..so i fail to see how aiming this criticism at mclaren is fair.

I'd suggest you can't bear anyone criticising McLaren Automotive at all!

[E21_Ross]

Rich_W said:

E21_Ross said:

..so i fail to see how aiming this criticism at mclaren is fair.

I'd suggest you can't bear anyone criticising McLaren Automotive at all!

they're by no means perfect, but the large majority of the criticism out there is a bit silly. not all of it, i understand why a lot of people don't like the styling, but it was meant to be a little more discreet than the more flamboyant cars. IMO it's no less flamboyant etc than a GT2 RS which isn't that much cheaper.

i also want red bull to win the F1 champ too

[TVRWannabee]

To be honest I'm not in the market for a supercar so I don't give a monkey's elbow which is perceived to be the 'best' (a somewhat subjective argument anyway) but I am very pleased with the way British automotive engineering seems to be going.

And, correct me if I am wrong, but I have noticed that the few people on these threads who are in the market for such a car have tested the McLaren and have subsequently bought one. That is all the assessment I need.