RE: PH Heroes: Mercedes 190E 2.5-16 Evo II
Discussion
Absolutely stunning, OTT, unique and menacing styling, I have always loved these ever since I first clapped eyes on them as a kid. I think the CLK Black is the modern equivalent (without the racing credentials), which I am also a big fan of.
Relatively £50k in 1984 for an Evo II is a lot more money than £100k for a CLK Black today, so I guess we should all be thankful that these super cars have become more "afordable"!!!
Relatively £50k in 1984 for an Evo II is a lot more money than £100k for a CLK Black today, so I guess we should all be thankful that these super cars have become more "afordable"!!!
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the zaniest part of the bodykit; the wraparound "spoiler" panel that obscures the top 8 inches of the rear window! Must be like looking through a letter box. I'm sure I've got an old copy of Performance Car that tested this back then. Off to the shed when I get home.
Dan Trent said:
And, Guvernator, I'm with you on an Evo with the Evo II engine! Much as I like the bodykit I think the Evo was the better looking of the two. That's so cool your dad used to have one too, major respect!
Thanks, my dad used to be a right petrolhead so we used to have some quite tasty metal in the household when I was younger from time to time. Probably where I inherited by petrolheadness from. Getting to drive one of these down some unrestricted country lanes when I was 18 pre speed camera days is an experience I'll never forget. I realise 200bhp is hardly anything these days but back in the early 90's it was pretty sensational for a car of that size. Wish he never got rid of it, would have probably been worth a bit now. As for the spoiler I know it was there for a reason but I just don't think it sits right with the rest of the car. Much prefer the lower level Evo spoiler. Edited by Dan Trent on Thursday 28th July 22:38
gforceg said:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the zaniest part of the bodykit; the wraparound "spoiler" panel that obscures the top 8 inches of the rear window! Must be like looking through a letter box. I'm sure I've got an old copy of Performance Car that tested this back then. Off to the shed when I get home.
Anyone remember Russell Bulgin taking one to the Chelsea Cruise for a "CAR" magazine article?nav p said:
I have had my 2.5.16V now for 9 years and love it to bits..mine is fitted with an Evo2 Rear roll bar and Evo2 Brakes
It gets used hard very often, it gets tracked every so often too!
In fact i took it to Essen last year 4 in car will full luggage, travelled at ridiculous speeds coming back late at night, cant think of many 20 year old cars that has over 150k on the clock that inspired confidence...love it!
I was also fortunate enough to have a 500E at the same time for a period,when one had to go there was no way i was parting the 16V, get a good one and it will give a great sense of satisfaction
I've mine for six years now, done 60k in less than four years and just like you I drive mine as intended when possible and without trying, it's constantly catching the GTi and TDDCiREDi brigade on the hop! Hitting 200k now, so a few bits need attention but happy to spend the money. As for long distance trips, they are great and the SLS comes into it's own when the car is loaded, also getting good mpg into the bargain too. It gets used hard very often, it gets tracked every so often too!
In fact i took it to Essen last year 4 in car will full luggage, travelled at ridiculous speeds coming back late at night, cant think of many 20 year old cars that has over 150k on the clock that inspired confidence...love it!
I was also fortunate enough to have a 500E at the same time for a period,when one had to go there was no way i was parting the 16V, get a good one and it will give a great sense of satisfaction
Edited by Johnboy Mac on Friday 29th July 18:57
gforceg said:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the zaniest part of the bodykit; the wraparound "spoiler" panel that obscures the top 8 inches of the rear window! Must be like looking through a letter box. I'm sure I've got an old copy of Performance Car that tested this back then. Off to the shed when I get home.
Actually, it's not a spoiler as such, no areo benefits from what I was told. It's there to blank out the top portion of the rear screen due to the height of the boot spolier, all to do with some DTM regulation. Johnboy Mac said:
gforceg said:
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the zaniest part of the bodykit; the wraparound "spoiler" panel that obscures the top 8 inches of the rear window! Must be like looking through a letter box. I'm sure I've got an old copy of Performance Car that tested this back then. Off to the shed when I get home.
Actually, it's not a spoiler as such, no areo benefits from what I was told. It's there to blank out the top portion of the rear screen due to the height of the boot spolier, all to do with some DTM regulation. Back in about 1997, I think, one of these appeared in a Japanese import showroom on Stafford Road, Croydon. I was in there asking about sourcing me a Celica GT-four direct from Japan, and the 190 EVO II was up for just £9,995..... It had 110,000 miles on the clock already, but it had not been in Japan ever, the boss imported it from Germany had it as his personal car. As a big touring car nut at the time, I nearly ejaculated when I saw it. But my girlfriend ( now my wife ) was having none of it, too many miles, and fairly, as was common of the 190's of the era, it looked like a Thornton Heath drug dealers car but without the 90% tints and Jamaican flag in the rear window. She couldn't tell the difference between the AMG designed bodykit and the Max Power ones. For her it was in no way cool whatsoever, and we ended up with a Celica WRC with even bigger rear wing and it cost a whole heap more than £10K. And today would be worth about £3K as opposed to £40K..... :-(
Dan Trent said:
Veeyat (and Riggers!), to answer the question, yes, I have driven it! And I ran a 2.3-16 in a previous life for a number of years so there's my credentials for you! To be fair the Evo does have different steering - 15.4:1 and 2.8 turns lock to lock against 15.14:1 and three turns for the regular 2.3-16 - and the smaller wheel helps too. The standard one in the 2.3 is a proper Merc taxi wheel and huge! But they're both recirculating ball and while they're OK while loaded up and reasonably direct there's just this odd springiness in the weighting and odd transition off-centre that, to me, doesn't feel as direct and natural as contemporary BMWs. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Merc fan and if you're used to the way they did things at the time it all makes sense. But if there's a weak spot in the set-up the steering is it. That and the dreadful pedal placing!
We'll just have to beg to differ on the 'best steering feel this side of the Elise' I'm afraid!
I never had one but drove a particularly unhealthy example for 3000 miles in a single run over every imaginable kind of road back in 2007. It had a play in steering due to weariness but I was amazed how good it felt. Neither sharp nor quick, just very communicative. IMO of course, but I drove lots of sportscars before and since as a motoring journo. We'll just have to beg to differ on the 'best steering feel this side of the Elise' I'm afraid!
Edited by Dan Trent on Thursday 28th July 22:38
Veeayt said:
It had a play in steering due to weariness but I was amazed how good it felt. Neither sharp nor quick, just very communicative.
Very possible it had play due the steering box not being adjusted, which is something that rarely gets attended to and a no cost fix. A new idler arm bush kit and steering damper (both small money items) can transform the steering feel too. Must agree with you about the feedback/communication from the steering set up. It's got a very liner (if that's the correct word) feel, the more lock applied the better it gets. I recall the great, late LJK Setright advocating a r/ball set up over rack & pinion.
Edited by Johnboy Mac on Sunday 31st July 12:15
Don't Lift said:
I'm sure a lot of you already know, but just to clarify, only the 2.3 had a Cosworth developed head; for the 2.5 Merc claimed the credit for themselves.
Oh that's fun considering they share the same partnumberETA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W201
I could only find headgaskets numbers matching but pretty sure Evo2 i drove had a Cosworth stamp on its head
Edited by Veeayt on Tuesday 2nd August 11:10
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