ZF 'Sealed for life' Autobox oil change

[rswift]

In my case this is purely preventative maintenance. The gearbox is not showing any problems, and has just done 70k miles. I tend to do high miles, and keep my cars for a while so figured worth doing now. I think the filter/filler on my Jag is £150 ish, plus fluid & labour.

[Jaguar steve]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Jaguar steve said:

Gerabox oil changes were dropped from Jaguar servicing. There is no good technical reason why this practice is acceptable and there have been a spate of either complete gearbox failures or long history of poor change quality, noise and premature wear. Some boxes have failed at no more than 60k. The only reason I can think of is cost, Jaguar just like any other manufacturer was desperate to reduce the headline cost of servicing at purchase, hence the sealed for life gearboxes and differentials.

That's one of the PH myths, because in reality a gearbox with knackered fluid is very likely to be a knackered gearbox.

Auto's hate being overheated so a transmission with cooked fluid is a transmission that's been abused. Unlike with an engine any bits of gunk and metal in the fluid can only be bits of transmission.

Jaguar steve said:

Your call - either a few hundred quid and peace of mind now or maybe at sometime in the future a ride home on the back of a tow truck and a big bill for a new gearbox.

A properly carried out "precautionary" fluid and filter change at or after 10yrs/100,000 miles seems to make sense, especially since it only costs a fraction the price of a transmission rebuild, let alone a new transmission. However, new fluid will never fix a knackered transmission!

Nope, not a PH myth at all. It's widely reported within the Trade and the Jaguar Enthusiasts' Club that a ZF box showing symptoms of what may be diagnosed as an expensive failure by a garage after a nice little earner in reality may need nothing more than a fluid change to free off sticking solonids and restore the fluid to the correct viscosity and slip properties to enable the box to perform correctly again.

I've actually experienced this myself too - my XJ8 was both sticking in 1st or second gear for way too long when cold and engaging drive with a violent thump - both classic symtoms of gearbox "failure" and was completely cured by nothing more than a oil and filter change. That was 40k ago and it's still fine now and running on it's third drain and fill of oil at over 100k.

True there's the chance the box may well be knackered and in the case of the ZF 5 speed chances are it'll be the forward clutch pack grinding it's way out of location - again down to lube failure - but if the usual symptoms occur and unless you have a complete loss of forward drive it's well worth trying a oil change before you condem the box. It is pretty unlikley you'll be able to overheat the fluid to the point of doing damage too, there's software in the 'box management to specifically limit temperature rise and a Hot Box setting to prevent damage if it goes over limit as well as more than adequate cooling capacity to quickly bring the oil temperature down again.

I'd argue a change at a lot less than 100k would be ideal - transmission fluid has not improved to the point where it'll be considerd safe to guarantee it'll still be in spec no matter how the car has been driven for 100k. My ideal for a car you'll keep would be a change between 40-50k and then every 30k or so after but of course that's an expense most people could do without - but as you say that's still cheaper than a new box

[Jaguar steve]

Rovinghawk said:

I'm not very clever, but surely you can suck out via the filler hole & replace with the exact same quantity of fresh ATF?

It doesn't replace the filter but at least there's some fresh fluid in there. It worked beautifully when I did it on mine & I could easily feel the improvement.

RH

The filler plug is not really a filler plug - it's actually a wier. The ZF 5 and 6 speed gearboxes have to be primed to get the final oil level correct.

This means an initial fill of around 4-6 litres then with the car perfectly level starting the engine and moving the gear selector from D to R whilst continuing to fill with oil. You'll easily get another 2-4 litres in and need to do so pretty quickly before the oil warms up - Jaguar say max temp is 30 deg - and starts to expand. The level is correct when still cold oil just starts to run out of the wier with the engine running (switch off at this stage and it'll all run out again) and that's when you put the plug in.

It's best to re check the level again once the box is stone cold just to make sure

You could of course drain out the old oil and refill using the same method but IMO its always worth taking the sump off to fit a new filter and clean the pan and magnets inside too.

[Chicane-UK]

That trip back to the ZF plant in Germany seems like a no brainer for a full refit / refurb of that calibre! Awesome!

[grand cherokee]

Range Rovers are also supposed to be 'for life' - the consensus is that 'for life' equates to the warranty period?

i've just had the gearbox oil etc replaced on my FFRR using the 'proper' oil

cost £150 inc filters/magnets etc etc

the mechanic said that the oil was in reasonable condition but certainly was ready for a 'change'

[monthefish]

rswift said:

What they said ^^^

Definitely worth a trip to Germany, although I believe ZF have a factory in Nottingham !

I will send an email to the Germany factory though, as that does appeal, bit of a road trip/few days away.

I'll let you know !

It'll be interesting to see of they still do this (the Bimmerboard post is 3 years old)

[rswift]

Just got a reply from Germany,

Hello Russel,
Thanks for your enquiry.

Your vehicle has got a type 6 HP-26 gearbox.
We recommend a gearbox oil change at 80- to 120000Km.
The gearbox oil pan whitch includes an integratet filter is
retrofitted incl. new bolts and guide shell.
The whole job takes about 4 hours as the gearbox
can only be filled when it´s cold.
Unfortunately, we only have time as of calendar week 41
The cost would be 450,-€

So just under £400 approx, plus travel, but week 41 is October.

The approx cost in the UK of an oil/filter is about £220 plus the VAT, which I can reclaim.

Looks like I'll get it done here, as in 3 months, it could have another 6000 miles on it...

Interesting as the factory do seem to recommend an oil change on a 'sealed for life' box ....

[B'stard Child]

rswift said:

Interesting as the factory do seem to recommend an oil change on a 'sealed for life' box ....

Yep - who say they are sealed for life - the manufacturer of teh box or the Manufacturer of the car that it's fitted to

Personally I'd take the ZF factory option and wait for the slot even if you are going to add 6K miles before then

[monthefish]

B'stard Child said:

rswift said:

Interesting as the factory do seem to recommend an oil change on a 'sealed for life' box ....

Yep - who say they are sealed for life - the manufacturer of teh box or the Manufacturer of the car that it's fitted to

Personally I'd take the ZF factory option and wait for the slot even if you are going to add 6K miles before then

I'm certainly not aware of anyone in the UK that does as thorough a job as the ZF Dortmund boys.

(if there is, I'd be very interested to hear about them)

[DickSkruttock]

rswift said:

Just got a reply from Germany,

Hello Russel,
Thanks for your enquiry.

Your vehicle has got a type 6 HP-26 gearbox.
We recommend a gearbox oil change at 80- to 120000Km.
The gearbox oil pan whitch includes an integratet filter is
retrofitted incl. new bolts and guide shell.
The whole job takes about 4 hours as the gearbox
can only be filled when it´s cold.
Unfortunately, we only have time as of calendar week 41
The cost would be 450,-€

So just under £400 approx, plus travel, but week 41 is October.

The approx cost in the UK of an oil/filter is about £220 plus the VAT, which I can reclaim.

Looks like I'll get it done here, as in 3 months, it could have another 6000 miles on it...

Interesting as the factory do seem to recommend an oil change on a 'sealed for life' box ....

What was the email address that you sent your query to?

Many thanks.

[B'stard Child]

monthefish said:

B'stard Child said:

rswift said:

Interesting as the factory do seem to recommend an oil change on a 'sealed for life' box ....

Yep - who say they are sealed for life - the manufacturer of teh box or the Manufacturer of the car that it's fitted to

Personally I'd take the ZF factory option and wait for the slot even if you are going to add 6K miles before then

I'm certainly not aware of anyone in the UK that does as thorough a job as the ZF Dortmund boys.

I'm not aware either but I'm a DIY person so wouldn't use the service unless it was beyond my abiliites and it isn't but I have some parts I will be ordering in preparation for the next fluid change when I will be cleaning the galleries and replacing the ball - just in case.

[rswift]

o said:

What was the email address that you sent your query to?

Many thanks.

You better PM me, I got a bking on here for giving out the email address of ZF in Nottingham in case they got spammed

[B'stard Child]

rswift said:

o said:

What was the email address that you sent your query to?

Many thanks.

You better PM me, I got a bking on here for giving out the email address of ZF in Nottingham in case they got spammed

Forgive me if I'm mistaken and the comment wasn't dirrected at me

I didn't bk you

I just illustrated how to write an email address in a form which could be easily read by a human but not picked up by a spambot - it takes a couple of seconds to edit an email address posted into a thread on a forum

[rswift]

oops, didn't mean to cause offence, didn't notice who wrote the post. Please take it the humour that was intended...

[B'stard Child]

rswift said:

oops, didn't mean to cause offence, didn't notice who wrote the post. Please take it the humour that was intended...

When I wrote the post I meant mine in humor too - hence why there was a at the end

It might have paid you to have done the same at the end instead of or in addition to the one you left there

[SuperHangOn]

monthefish said:

I'm certainly not aware of anyone in the UK that does as thorough a job as the ZF Dortmund boys.

(if there is, I'd be very interested to hear about them)

Ashcroft transmissions have a good rep for rebuilding/repairing ZF autoboxes but unfortunately only deal with Land Rovers

[rswift]

B'stard Child said:

When I wrote the post I meant mine in humor too - hence why there was a at the end

It might have paid you to have done the same at the end instead of or in addition to the one you left there

Sorry, thought the red smilie was an embarrassed face ?, not an angry one. Don't remember seeing your smilies, but maybe I saw the post on my phone, maybe I wasn't looking properly .. but shall we move on ..

[B'stard Child]

rswift said:

B'stard Child said:

When I wrote the post I meant mine in humor too - hence why there was a at the end

It might have paid you to have done the same at the end instead of or in addition to the one you left there

Sorry, thought the red smilie was an embarrassed face ?, not an angry one. Don't remember seeing your smilies, but maybe I saw the post on my phone, maybe I wasn't looking properly .. but shall we move on ..

Of course we can - hence the

[B'stard Child]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Just trying to avoid the PH inevitable spat when people can't agree when discussing on the internets......

Room booked

[rswift]

lol