RE: Video: Arrinera, The Polish Supercar
Discussion
I am suprised to see this much negativity over this car. Yes, the video is of dreadful quality, granted.
However the fact that these guys are at least trying to produce a new and exciting vehicle in these times of the ever growing number of hybrids, banal eco-boxes and nasty plasticky town cars *cough Cygnet cough* should, surely, be commended by the petrolhead community. Even if its for the effort alone.
Lots of ranting about the engine, but again, I don't see an issue with using a tried and tested powerplant with a reasonable cost when a such a small company is putting themselves out there for the first time. There's plenty of other that operate on the same philosophy, but the market is by no means saturated with such cars. How many Nobles, Ultimas, Gumperts etc have you seen recently? They're clearly not going to compete with the established big boys, so whats the harm in potentially having another contender for those who do wish to go for that particular breed of supercar?
I'll admit the looks are a combination of odd and lambo-rip off, but I'd rather look at this than a Panamera
It would be interesting to see the finished product for sure. It could turn out to be lacking in many areas, or it could turn out to be a hoot on the track. Either way I'm glad that these guys are at least trying to make something interesting.
However the fact that these guys are at least trying to produce a new and exciting vehicle in these times of the ever growing number of hybrids, banal eco-boxes and nasty plasticky town cars *cough Cygnet cough* should, surely, be commended by the petrolhead community. Even if its for the effort alone.
Lots of ranting about the engine, but again, I don't see an issue with using a tried and tested powerplant with a reasonable cost when a such a small company is putting themselves out there for the first time. There's plenty of other that operate on the same philosophy, but the market is by no means saturated with such cars. How many Nobles, Ultimas, Gumperts etc have you seen recently? They're clearly not going to compete with the established big boys, so whats the harm in potentially having another contender for those who do wish to go for that particular breed of supercar?
I'll admit the looks are a combination of odd and lambo-rip off, but I'd rather look at this than a Panamera
It would be interesting to see the finished product for sure. It could turn out to be lacking in many areas, or it could turn out to be a hoot on the track. Either way I'm glad that these guys are at least trying to make something interesting.
None of the cars of this category are "new", or at least not in same sense as when, say, Lambo produce a new car. They all use components and engines from different, more mainstream producers and strap them to their chassis. Plus, none of them can claim to be good looking cars, with the Gumpert suffering particularly badly from a collision with the ugly tree.
Other than the fact that this is unashamedly plagarising a little more than the others in this sector, I still fail to see why this is such an automotive crime.
Other than the fact that this is unashamedly plagarising a little more than the others in this sector, I still fail to see why this is such an automotive crime.
It's so-so in a kit car sort of way. I thought the worst thing was the colour of the interior, reminded me of something my kids done as babies! As for the reflections in the windscreen of the dash. I once had a similar view across a large area of beige coloured dash that when the sun shone you could hardly see the road ahead.
Just another half baked idea. Doubt it will ever make production.
Just another half baked idea. Doubt it will ever make production.
I agree with the 'clone wars' comments. The LS engine is a wonderful design. Moreover the first time around the Lambo body shape was quite spectacular. But when you put the two together, there remains so little room left to display your innovative capabilities that it's unfair to call this a car company. Something between a Superperformance model and the (U.S.) Rossion folks. Further they've used a tubular chassis so no innovation there either so add in a bit of Ultima flair (a great car that Ultima, but it's been done so why buy a copy?).
Overall, this is completely disappointing. I accept that entering the automotive business requires a great deal of cash and skill but that's just the way it is. If you can't afford to play, don't try to fake it.
Overall, this is completely disappointing. I accept that entering the automotive business requires a great deal of cash and skill but that's just the way it is. If you can't afford to play, don't try to fake it.
Reading through this forum thread I can see that peoples views on this are ‘poles’ apart ranging from “You can't 'Polish' a turd” (which evidently according to the Discovery Channels MythBusters you can! – well a Lion’s turd anyway - http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-polish... ) through to “I like it. Front needs a bit more, but the rear is nice.” - although I have to say there are rather more negatives and s
tes than positives. The jury’s still out for me as it’s only when someone like Martin Brundle gets to drive one on the limits will you know whether it’s really sorted or not, and it’s oh so difficult to get that elusive blend of horse power delivery, gear change, handling, braking efficiency, traction etc. just right for a 'true' supercar – although looking on the bright side of things the speedo on this video of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k6YgzrAJJo&fea... (at 1 min 10 secs) goes up to 350km/h (that’s 217 mph! and you can ask the question True or False ???), I’d also expect the ‘plumbing’ on the engine to be well sorted and come with a weeks warranty and you’ll get a ‘top-notch’ looking AA badge. 
tes than positives. The jury’s still out for me as it’s only when someone like Martin Brundle gets to drive one on the limits will you know whether it’s really sorted or not, and it’s oh so difficult to get that elusive blend of horse power delivery, gear change, handling, braking efficiency, traction etc. just right for a 'true' supercar – although looking on the bright side of things the speedo on this video of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k6YgzrAJJo&fea... (at 1 min 10 secs) goes up to 350km/h (that’s 217 mph! and you can ask the question True or False ???), I’d also expect the ‘plumbing’ on the engine to be well sorted and come with a weeks warranty and you’ll get a ‘top-notch’ looking AA badge. OK, name me ONE current low volume soooooper car that currently runs a GM V8 apart from those things made by Eric Shelby or whatever his name is. We've seen on this site the Keating, Minotaur, Joss, and a raft of others all using the same basic topology. Tubular space frame, used Porsche gearbox and a crate motor adds up to an Ultima in my book. Anything else is an utter w@nk. Perfect timing with this sooper car too, with a massive worldwide recession brewing :-P
P.S I saw the Minotaur prototype for sale on PH classifieds for 37,000 quid, not the 200,000 that they believed they could sell a "production" model for.
P.P.S I bet they didn't sell it either, remember the interior? GLURPH!
P.S I saw the Minotaur prototype for sale on PH classifieds for 37,000 quid, not the 200,000 that they believed they could sell a "production" model for.
P.P.S I bet they didn't sell it either, remember the interior? GLURPH!
Stu R said:
It's been done to death with GM V8s, to the point where nobody bothers to do anything innovative - leading to horrible designs to make them unique. I love GM V8s, but I don't want every car out there to use them, otherwise a car 'manufacturer' needs to do little else than buy an Ultima sans body shell, slap their monstrosity over the top of it, trim it up and shift it on for a ridiculous sum.
Good for them if someone's willing to pay for it, but let's be honest just about any engineering grad could do it with sufficient cash behind them, and the reality is that most of these companies either spend years in mediocrity or fold when the previously well heeled founder either runs out of cash, cuts his losses, or gets bored of his play thing and fails to find a buyer.
I'm not for a second suggesting that this is all because they use GM V8s, but where's the innovation, and why bother if you're just going to tread the same well beaten path? Yes, frankly, I would rather they made their own engines, I realise not many can afford this of course, but at least do something with it between lifting it out of the crate and dumping it in the car.
TVR might not have the greatest track record, but they sold more cars than this Polish crowd could ever hope to, and did a hell of a lot of innovating in their time. I'd much rather see an innovative company prove finite, than a mediocre one prove sustainable. This will be neither, it'll be a mediocre company proving finite, again.
I really don't know about the 'everybody uses them' bit.Good for them if someone's willing to pay for it, but let's be honest just about any engineering grad could do it with sufficient cash behind them, and the reality is that most of these companies either spend years in mediocrity or fold when the previously well heeled founder either runs out of cash, cuts his losses, or gets bored of his play thing and fails to find a buyer.
I'm not for a second suggesting that this is all because they use GM V8s, but where's the innovation, and why bother if you're just going to tread the same well beaten path? Yes, frankly, I would rather they made their own engines, I realise not many can afford this of course, but at least do something with it between lifting it out of the crate and dumping it in the car.
TVR might not have the greatest track record, but they sold more cars than this Polish crowd could ever hope to, and did a hell of a lot of innovating in their time. I'd much rather see an innovative company prove finite, than a mediocre one prove sustainable. This will be neither, it'll be a mediocre company proving finite, again.
Look at it from a business model point of view. They have to fork out cash for development hoping it'll get back to them in the end. If they can cut time and cost by using parts off the shelf why not? Engine is difficult to get right. I'd very much prefer if they focused on handling and getting the chassis sorted, making a good driver's machine.
I must admit I don't like it when a company goes the easy way and just designs something that looks like a Lambo but at leat it isn't as ugly as that Gumpert Apollo thingie (poor argument but hey...)
Who knows, maybe if one of those companies goes off to a good start they will get round to designing their own engine, but until they start seeing some return on investment it's probably not worth for them to risk spending more money.
TVR sold so many cars cause they've been going for decades and they haven't always been using their own engines (Cologne V6, Rover V8, Windsor V8 etc.) so you could say they went the easy way one as well and only some years into their existence started making their own engines.
smash said:
evenflow said:
You can hear it in Maranello now...
"For-a goodness sake-a, coming over here and a-stealin' our jobs-a"
You sir, gave me a stereotypical chuckle on a flat Monday. Ta!"For-a goodness sake-a, coming over here and a-stealin' our jobs-a"
They do have a more relaxed attitude, maybe that's why they're happy.
Bladedancer said:
smash said:
evenflow said:
You can hear it in Maranello now...
"For-a goodness sake-a, coming over here and a-stealin' our jobs-a"
You sir, gave me a stereotypical chuckle on a flat Monday. Ta!"For-a goodness sake-a, coming over here and a-stealin' our jobs-a"
They do have a more relaxed attitude, maybe that's why they're happy.
The automotive skills available in Poland are quite reasonable - For better or worse, they can repair crashed cars to a level that even the factory dealer can't spot. And the Cobra bodies ( http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/galleries/427-ga... ) they produce are a complete work of art. I wish this project the very best as it's always good to see more variety on the market, though will definitely wait and see as this car appears to be a re-invention of the stillborn 2008 Veno project - The old Veno website now directs to the site for this car - http://www.venoautomotive.pl/ . There is also a rumor that Lee Noble is involved in the project. It all sounds a little too TVRish !!
There was corvette that a more 'interesting' engine ! http://www.illustratedcorvetteseries.com/1992_Corv...
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