RE: Bentley SUV To Inherit 'Lightweight' Platform

[henrycrun]

Bentley - the (slightly) less lardy dirtbox

[bobberz]

gumsie said:

PhilboSE said:

Are you really this ignorant or do you work at it?

They used normal cars and stuck 4 children across the back bench, or there were Mercs and Volvos with tiny flimsy cushions masquerading as seats in the boot.

However, wake up and smell the coffee, it's 2011 and you have to strap every child into a big plastic cocoon, stick them on booster seats, and so on. And we're a bit more aware now about the consequences of children sitting not so much in the crumple zone as in the bit of the car that disintegrates in the event of a rear end shunt.

As for your comments about diesel, you must really have no clue about what works in a large car and modern diesels in general.

Face it, you love gas guzzling overblown SUVs. A lighter, (than that ludicrous 2270Kg kerb weight for the cheap variant), cheaper less flashy MPV will do the same job regarding children.
As for diesels. If you think that that you can apply the word luxury to one then you are hard of hearing or in denial or both. If you want luxury you get a smooth quiet multi cylinder petrol, (in addition to the leather seats and niceties). NOT a deezl. Lets be real, the only reason diesels work is due to the turbo charging. That's why they work in a large car but so would a turbo petrol.
I had a large modern car dufus and a 2011 diesel. N, V and H are all still living large, except todays engines are nvh as opposed to NVH.
As for before SUVs like the Q7, the Espace came out in 1984. The current one at least, scored quite well for occupant protection, (even better than the Q7 I think).

Edited by gumsie on Sunday 14th August 13:17

I thought the torque of a diesel would make it very suited to this type of heavy vehicle? I.e., you'd probably never need to rev it over 2500rpm, thus it could be very quiet with all the mufflers, etc.

[bobberz]

PhilboSE said:

gumsie said:

What ever did people use before large SUVs were around?? OMG people must have bought second hand double decker buses?
Anyways, if you put a diesel in, you can take the word luxurious out. Regardless of the badge on the cam cover, if it rattles and bangs it ain't luxury!

Are you really this ignorant or do you work at it?

They used normal cars and stuck 4 children across the back bench, or there were Mercs and Volvos with tiny flimsy cushions masquerading as seats in the boot.

However, wake up and smell the coffee, it's 2011 and you have to strap every child into a big plastic cocoon, stick them on booster seats, and so on. And we're a bit more aware now about the consequences of children sitting not so much in the crumple zone as in the bit of the car that disintegrates in the event of a rear end shunt.

As for your comments about diesel, you must really have no clue about what works in a large car and modern diesels in general.

Yeah, my mom told me how she used to love riding in her uncle's car, because he would let her and her cousin sit on the OPEN tailgate of the Country Squire, with their legs hanging over the road while he would swerve the car back and forth.

[bobberz]

legalknievel said:

Footballers and carousel fraudsters everywhere are salivating. How long after release will it be before aftermarket tuners give it that final sheen of class with a set of 24 inch chrome rims, a PS3 and seven TVs?

Why only 24" rims? All the real ballers are rollin' on 30"+ "DUBs"!

In all seriousness, with VAG having the Toe-rag, Q7, Cayenne, and now Bentley SUVs sharing the same platform, how long before Lamborghini release the "Tuatador" quad-turbo V12 diesel, 4WD, 9 seater SUV?

[cookie1600]

rogerhudson said:

Was the Rangerover Bentley dominator for the Sultan of Brunai??

Or more likely his brother...

Reputed to have cost £3 million each, there were six in total and were built at Crewe in 1995/6 on Range Rover underpinnings. Engine could have been standard Range Rover but there are rumours they shoe-horned the 'Blackpool Project' lumps in there.







Of course, with Hummer production in mothballs, they could use another base model that would fit the bill (and Premiership car parks)......

[PhilboSE]

gumsie said:

Face it, you love gas guzzling overblown SUVs. A lighter, (than that ludicrous 2270Kg kerb weight for the cheap variant), cheaper less flashy MPV will do the same job regarding children.
As for diesels. If you think that that you can apply the word luxury to one then you are hard of hearing or in denial or both. If you want luxury you get a smooth quiet multi cylinder petrol, (in addition to the leather seats and niceties). NOT a deezl. Lets be real, the only reason diesels work is due to the turbo charging. That's why they work in a large car but so would a turbo petrol.
I had a large modern car dufus and a 2011 diesel. N, V and H are all still living large, except todays engines are nvh as opposed to NVH.
As for before SUVs like the Q7, the Espace came out in 1984. The current one at least, scored quite well for occupant protection, (even better than the Q7 I think).

Edited by gumsie on Sunday 14th August 13:17

I looked at MPVs but let's consider your Renault Espace example. It doesn't have a premium interior, it depreciates like a stone and it is one of the most unreliable cars according to all the surveys. The top engines, either a V6 petrol or V6 diesel, drink more fuel than my Q7 does; smaller engines e.g. 2.5l diesel has well documented design flaws and the "best" engines (2l 4-pot) simply don't have enough grunt to haul an Espace around fully laden in a manner that I feel comfortable with.

Then let's take your point about turbo charged petrol. Let's take a look at big heavy cars with forced induction engines - say a Range Rover supercharged or a Bentley. Now take a look at the mpg figures for those cars. Now what exactly was your point again about gas guzzling?

Then you make the point about SUV vs MPV. Well, I live in a semi-rural area and when the snow falls the extra 4WD traction is a benefit. It also helps when I'm towing a heavy load (another car on a trailer) which I do, and the Espace doesn't have the towing credentials of the Q7.

As for diesels, mine makes quite a nice V8 roar when I put my foot down. It's not a classic induction noise but it's not unpleasant. And at idling and low speeds it's practically silent. Then you make some silly statement about "the only reason diesels work is because they're turbocharged". Well, who cares? They work. They give more flexible power delivery and better mpg in a large car. Trust me, my Q7 is not going to hold you up.

I'm not saying diesels are the second coming. I'm saying they are an appropriate engine choice on a larger car. I have a number of other cars and they're all petrol but they serve different purposes. And anyone who mixes "gas guzzling" and "turbo charged petrol" into the same argument about large cars is obviously ignorant or a bigot.

The point about the original article was that the next generation VAG/Bentley large MPV platform is going to get lighter than the current one, and that seems to me to be a Good Thing. Having the choice of a truly luxuriously fitted interior in this car segment is also a good thing to my mind - gives more choice to those who can afford it.

So it seems that your points are all easily deconstructed, your lack of consistency is easily demonstrated, and your deliberate spelling mistakes ("deezl", FFS) just makes you look immature.

[Zod]

gumsie said:

Face it, you love gas guzzling overblown SUVs. A lighter, (than that ludicrous 2270Kg kerb weight for the cheap variant), cheaper less flashy MPV will do the same job regarding children.
As for diesels. If you think that that you can apply the word luxury to one then you are hard of hearing or in denial or both. If you want luxury you get a smooth quiet multi cylinder petrol, (in addition to the leather seats and niceties). NOT a deezl. Lets be real, the only reason diesels work is due to the turbo charging. That's why they work in a large car but so would a turbo petrol.
I had a large modern car dufus and a 2011 diesel. N, V and H are all still living large, except todays engines are nvh as opposed to NVH.
As for before SUVs like the Q7, the Espace came out in 1984. The current one at least, scored quite well for occupant protection, (even better than the Q7 I think).

Edited by gumsie on Sunday 14th August 13:17

Can you get a 400bhp Espace? If not, I'll pass.

[cookie1600]

Zod said:

Can you get a 400bhp Espace? If not, I'll pass.

Try double that:



http://www.supercars.net/cars/1672.html

[EDLT]

This is awful! What Bentley need to do is stop selling cars to anyone who can afford them and instead sell two or three a year to "landed gentry" until they go bust again.

[Davel]

Think I'll stick with the Vogue....

[RichB]

PhilboSE said:

...and your deliberate spelling mistakes ("deezl", FFS) just makes you look immature.

Indeed we all know it's spelt "diseasel"

[EDLT]

RichB said:

PhilboSE said:

...and your deliberate spelling mistakes ("deezl", FFS) just makes you look immature.

Indeed we all know it's spelt "diseasel"

Can't call it that, Clarkson said it once and therefore we must hate it.

[threespires]

Will they end up like these Bentley's / Royce's

http://www.bentleyspotting.com/2009/11/dusty-dubai...

[threespires]

Mmmmmmm Yummmy


Audi Q7 4.2 Quattro (ABT bodykit) by Ahmad S. M., on Flickr

[RichB]

EDLT said:

RichB said:

PhilboSE said:

...and your deliberate spelling mistakes ("deezl", FFS) just makes you look immature.

Indeed we all know it's spelt "diseasel"

Can't call it that, Clarkson said it once and therefore we must hate it.

I know Clarkson is old but his remark dosn't pre-date Rev W Audrey and Thomas the Tank Engine! He wrote "coughs and sneezles spread diseasels"

[Trommel]

threespires said:

Mmmmmmm Yummmy


Audi Q7 4.2 Quattro (ABT bodykit) by Ahmad S. M., on Flickr

Vile, ideal for Bratfut.

[edb49]

PhilboSE said:

I have got a family with lots of kids, so a Q7 TDI is my best option.

Phil, must say your posts have intrigued me. I have got a family increasing in size, and what I really want is a Ford Galaxy with sliding rear doors and a BMW 3 litre twin turbo diesel in it.

There is not a great deal of choice if you want to have a premium car and you've got 4 kids. I actually placed an order for a VW Sharan a few weeks ago, but because of the Japanese earthquake you can't get the reversing camera, which I need if my wife isn't going to lose her NCB. So I pulled the order for the moment rather than have one in for the 9 months they were estimating.

The big disadvantages I see on the Q7s/Volvo XC90 etc are:
- Image. I love the fact my debadged 335d doesn't shout the wrong things. Great for 2 kids, but beyond that...
- No sliding doors. Useful for getting kids in and out in tight spaces.

But I'm looking at this with fresh eyes after reading your post. What can't be ignored is instead of putting down £33k on a Sharan (with options and discount), I could get a pretty good Q7 for the same money 2nd hand, and it would probably hold value better, and be a nicer place to be. Just not *quite* as practical. I'm going to test drive one.

[Zod]

No sliding doors, but the X5 swallows my family (six of us drove to Tuscany and back last month) and luggage and goes pleasingly quickly (while using large amounts of petrol).

[PhilboSE]

edb49 said:

Phil, must say your posts have intrigued me. I have got a family increasing in size, and what I really want is a Ford Galaxy with sliding rear doors and a BMW 3 litre twin turbo diesel in it.

There is not a great deal of choice if you want to have a premium car and you've got 4 kids. I actually placed an order for a VW Sharan a few weeks ago, but because of the Japanese earthquake you can't get the reversing camera, which I need if my wife isn't going to lose her NCB. So I pulled the order for the moment rather than have one in for the 9 months they were estimating.

The big disadvantages I see on the Q7s/Volvo XC90 etc are:
- Image. I love the fact my debadged 335d doesn't shout the wrong things. Great for 2 kids, but beyond that...
- No sliding doors. Useful for getting kids in and out in tight spaces.

But I'm looking at this with fresh eyes after reading your post. What can't be ignored is instead of putting down £33k on a Sharan (with options and discount), I could get a pretty good Q7 for the same money 2nd hand, and it would probably hold value better, and be a nicer place to be. Just not *quite* as practical. I'm going to test drive one.

Almost the same situation I was in - needs dictate a large car, don't want to compromise on interior quality, not much on the market that steps up. A number of people I spoke to were in the same boat - definitely a segment that current the Q7 fills very well. No surprise to me that the Q7 has significantly outsold Audi's expectations.

I agree about the sliding doors and yes they would be preferred on grounds of practicality. However, even though the Q7 doors *are* big (there's no getting away from it) it hasn't proved to be that much of an issue for us. We live in an old market town and the bays and car parks are not big, but once you've recalibrated for the size of the car, it hasn't really been a problem, even for Mrs PhilboSE.

As for the image, you can see that the Q7 attracts some negativity. However, if these detractors realised that we don't go out there thinking "hey, I really wanted a 2-seater petrol engined high revving sports car but in the end I got this Q7", then they might be a little less small-minded. If you have 3 very young children, there are very very few cars where you can get all 3 in the back seat once child seats are in place. Equally, try convincing 3 teenagers to share a rear bench for 350 miles (a journey we do about 20 times a year), especially if the two outer seats are "bucket" stylee and the middle child gets a raw deal (and no headrest DVD in front of them!), and you'll have 3 teenagers even more stroppy than usual. Try either scenario for a year and trust me, you'll decide that you'll *need* a third row of seats. Some people just don't consider that you might have 4 children, or even older dependent parents you need to cart around en famille. Or, say, share a school run - our Q7 often runs 7-up with other children.

Which leaves MPVs and SUVs as your 7-seater options. None of the MPVs have the engine option that you (and I) prefer, and none have the same quality interior we'd like. Which leaves SUVs, and then you have the XC90 and the Q7. I discount the BMW X5 as the rear wheel arch intrudes so much it's impossible to access the third row of seats through the rear doors. The XC90 is getting long in the tooth now, but for me the primary reason for rejecting it was the DC5 engine - just not enough grunt and the brakes didn't inspire confidence to haul down a 2.5tonne vehicle.

I arrived at the Q7 through a process of elimination and regarded it as an inevitable consequence that had to be tolerated. Much to my surprise, it's won me over with the efficiency it's done it's job over the past 3 years.

I know that large 4x4s are not exactly favoured of the ecomentalists, but as I will happily point out, the CO2/head when we run the Q7 with 6+ occupants (which is pretty much how it gets run) favours well compared with a single occupant Focus. Or even an MX5. As for image, I don't care what other people think, because I've made a rational choice based on need and what I can personally afford. If they're offended, well then, be offended - no-one gets hurt! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cycXuYzmzNg

Finally, cost. I completely, wholeheartedly, 100% agree with your £33K 2nd hand option. That's exactly what I did - 6 month old 5000 miler ex-demo, bought during the 2008 recession when fuel prices were high and no-one wanted them. The Audi dealer practically begged me to take it off his hands - £60K worth of car new (the V8 option alone adds £10K to the list price - and you get nary a single extra option for that).

Yes the car costs £460 a year in road tax and a fillup costs £130 (though I get a 500+ mile range out of that), but I can live with those costs and the REAL cost of the car in depreciation makes much more sense financially than buying an MPV new.

Good luck with your test drive and whatever your choice turns out to be.

[RichB]

I feel you are being a little insulting by suggesting that anyone who dislikes humongous 4x4s is being "small minded". You go on to say you have got used to it which is fine, but it's other road users who suffer from these vehicles. The Q7 is probably the largest of these, just pulling up alongside one at the lights in a normal car makes you feel dwarfed. Parking spaces in supermarkets have got no bigger yet cars have generally swollen. These things really need "oversized bays" because if, as has happened to me at Heathrow, you get a BMW X5 one side and then some inconsiderate sod parks his Range Rover the other it can be impossible to get into one's own car. And before you say rubbish, it happened to me a few months ago, returning quite late I literally had to climb in the back of my Volvo via the tailgate, good job it's an estate else I would have been stuffed. Sorry but these things are quite simply too big for British roads - fine in the USA but here they are totally gross.