Brand new A3 breaks down... Dealer then goes Golfing in it..
Discussion
Just read through most of the thread, and TBH, some of the responses are actually pretty amusing... New car, really?
As far as I see it, the dealer made one small, but fundamental mistake - they should have called the customer and asked if it was ok for the SM to use the car over the weekend
Flip this on it's head: the dealer does a repair on the vehicle, but doesn't test it afterwards (take into account this was/is an intermittent concern) the car gets handed back to the customer, 2 days later, the same concern happens again.
If that was the case, we'd be reading a thread about 's
t Audi dealer - 3 attempts at fixing my car and it's still broken'
Then we'd get the 'reject the car' posts etc
Admittedly the car should have been returned clean and with no damage, but at least it's fixed
As far as I see it, the dealer made one small, but fundamental mistake - they should have called the customer and asked if it was ok for the SM to use the car over the weekend
Flip this on it's head: the dealer does a repair on the vehicle, but doesn't test it afterwards (take into account this was/is an intermittent concern) the car gets handed back to the customer, 2 days later, the same concern happens again.
If that was the case, we'd be reading a thread about 's
t Audi dealer - 3 attempts at fixing my car and it's still broken'Then we'd get the 'reject the car' posts etc
Admittedly the car should have been returned clean and with no damage, but at least it's fixed
Without trawling through 11 pages, what's the bet everyone would be moaning how the car hadn't been fixed had it not been test driven. A random fault is just that, I.E it can happen at any time so some time behind the wheel is needed to rectify the fault.
Poor form not valeting it though before handing the keys back...
My car only goes to a garage once a year, I always take a picture of the odo before handing the keys over. It did 3.5 miles on the garage forecourt this year in the space of 7 hours.
Poor form not valeting it though before handing the keys back...
My car only goes to a garage once a year, I always take a picture of the odo before handing the keys over. It did 3.5 miles on the garage forecourt this year in the space of 7 hours.
iphonedyou said:
With all due respect, your evidence here is anecdotal at best, surely. I understand it does happen - obviously, as it's happened to you, and OPs friend - but to suggest it's commonplace would require more evidence. I'm talking specifically about taking a car for an unnecessary jaunt here, as discrete from taking it home in order to simultaneously assess some intermittent fault.
And to be fair, my issue was more with the thinking that the service boys want to take out fast hatches because they're fast. In my very humble opinion, they're well used to them and the thought of taking them out for nefarious purposes just isn't attractive enough to outweigh any risk of punishment. Again, it clearly does happen, and has happened in the past, and will likely to continue to happen in the future. But I don't think it's as common as some of the owner club nerds would have us all believe.
Well my evidence is first hand. The lies the cover up. And to be fair, my issue was more with the thinking that the service boys want to take out fast hatches because they're fast. In my very humble opinion, they're well used to them and the thought of taking them out for nefarious purposes just isn't attractive enough to outweigh any risk of punishment. Again, it clearly does happen, and has happened in the past, and will likely to continue to happen in the future. But I don't think it's as common as some of the owner club nerds would have us all believe.
Edited by iphonedyou on Tuesday 23 August 14:51
As for the service manager. He was using it for his own personal gain not for the benefit of the owner. He only admitted it when faced with irrefutable evidence. So he's dishonest and underhand plus has no respect for his customers property. That's pretty clear from this thread.
My evidence is of my personal experience and that of several friends. That's hardly anecdotal. Trawling the net will find you many more examples.
Most people don't even check their mileage or consider it. So it's probably more common.
The average spanner monkey in a dealership doesn't get a car. So why wouldn't they want to take a hoon in a nice hot hatch?
It's clear a number of those in the industry are burying their heads in the sand. It's more common than anyone would like it to be.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Well my evidence is first hand. The lies the cover up.
As for the service manager. He was using it for his own personal gain not for the benefit of the owner. He only admitted it when faced with irrefutable evidence. So he's dishonest and underhand plus has no respect for his customers property. That's pretty clear from this thread.
My evidence is of my personal experience and that of several friends. That's hardly anecdotal. Trawling the net will find you many more examples.
Most people don't even check their mileage or consider it. So it's probably more common.
The average spanner monkey in a dealership doesn't get a car. So why wouldn't they want to take a hoon in a nice hot hatch?
It's clear a number of those in the industry are burying their heads in the sand. It's more common than anyone would like it to be.
This ^^^As for the service manager. He was using it for his own personal gain not for the benefit of the owner. He only admitted it when faced with irrefutable evidence. So he's dishonest and underhand plus has no respect for his customers property. That's pretty clear from this thread.
My evidence is of my personal experience and that of several friends. That's hardly anecdotal. Trawling the net will find you many more examples.
Most people don't even check their mileage or consider it. So it's probably more common.
The average spanner monkey in a dealership doesn't get a car. So why wouldn't they want to take a hoon in a nice hot hatch?
It's clear a number of those in the industry are burying their heads in the sand. It's more common than anyone would like it to be.
Not every mechanic/salesperson/manager has been in the business long enough to not care or can afford to have a weekend in a good car. Plus there is always the thrill.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
It's clear a number of those in the industry are burying their heads in the sand. It's more common than anyone would like it to be.
An alternative viewpoint is that those of us who are in the motor trade know how uncommon it is whilst people on the internet make wild guesses and assumptions based on one experience plus second hand stories, anecdotes and FOAFlore.Edited by markmullen on Wednesday 24th August 12:40
Ian974 said:
I'm yet another person who is amazed that a supposedly high quality car needs its seat backs replaced after a golf trip along with the prior starting issues.
Well, I would be amazed, but after the recent shambles which is another PHers polo GTI DSG 'box freezing up you've got to wonder what VAG are trying to do with their reputation for well built cars...
And breaking down in the first place neccesitating the remedial work in the first place, it is funny how people shout from the rooftops when something home grown or mundane goes wrong but kind of brush it under the carpet when something "premium" goes wrong, I just dont think the VAG stuff is that reliable these days, certainly there is a disparity between the perception and the reality judging by the Audi owners I know.Well, I would be amazed, but after the recent shambles which is another PHers polo GTI DSG 'box freezing up you've got to wonder what VAG are trying to do with their reputation for well built cars...
markmullen said:
An alternative viewpoint is that those of us who are in the motor trade know how uncommon it is whilst people on the internet make wild guesses and assumptions based on one experience plus second hand stories, anecdotes and FOAFlore.
Me and at least two people who are friends. Edited by markmullen on Wednesday 24th August 12:40
That's not second hand anecdotal stuff.
Why aren't you calling for the sacking of this dishonest sales manager?
Others on this thread have had it happen first hand as well.
You can't just dismiss it as an issue.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Me and at least two people who are friends.
That's not second hand anecdotal stuff.
Why aren't you calling for the sacking of this dishonest sales manager?
Others on this thread have had it happen first hand as well.
You can't just dismiss it as an issue.
It is anecdotal, though. In fact, it meets the definition exactly, because it's based on personal accounts rather than research proven fact.That's not second hand anecdotal stuff.
Why aren't you calling for the sacking of this dishonest sales manager?
Others on this thread have had it happen first hand as well.
You can't just dismiss it as an issue.
I just think calling for the sacking of the sales manager is a bit much, really. It's easy to forget he has kids depending on him. All the more surprising, to me, given your profession and the real bad decisions you probably see day in, day out.
iphonedyou said:
I just think calling for the sacking of the sales manager is a bit much, really. It's easy to forget he has kids depending on him. All the more surprising, to me, given your profession and the real bad decisions you probably see day in, day out.
I don't think it is too much. I work in IT. If one of my team, after a few days of building/repairing/modifying a clients server, then decided to take it home for a weekend to use temporarily as his Home Server, and left a few movies on it on it's return to the client I would:1) have him write a personal apology to the client. backed up by one of my own.
2) take him through gross professional misconduct process and if possible, and allowed by HR, fire him.
3) refund the client for the job and asking them what else they would like me to do.
Also, having kids has sweet FA to do with anything and should never give anyone a favourable view in gross professional misconduct. Surely having kids means you should be even more responsible in how you behave?
Mr_annie_vxr said:
Me and at least two people who are friends.
That's not second hand anecdotal stuff.
Why aren't you calling for the sacking of this dishonest sales manager?
Others on this thread have had it happen first hand as well.
You can't just dismiss it as an issue.
And how many services have your collective of friends had without this happening?That's not second hand anecdotal stuff.
Why aren't you calling for the sacking of this dishonest sales manager?
Others on this thread have had it happen first hand as well.
You can't just dismiss it as an issue.
I'm not defending his position, nor saying it doesn't happen. What I am saying is it is very very rare, which you seem to be claiming isn't the situation and that it is a common occurrence.
Had suspicions about my main dealer doing the same with the 159, not the most expensive/exclusive car in the world, but a top-of the line model and always very well kept.
Couldn't prove anything, but had the feeling several times (car significantly more dirty than when I left it, things rearranged in the boot,...).
That, combined with generally bad treatment and service from a dealership from which I bought two brand new cars in a couple of months, just made me go to another dealership (indy).
As for the people surprised by her "mild" reaction, I would have done the same, not gone livid but a stern mail or phonecall to ask for a proper explanation seems just right in this situation.
The valet + tank of gas also seems like the proper response, in addition to -at most- a free service, but I wouldn't expect/want nothing more.
"Take them to the cleaners" is a bit "American" imho. Just sue everybody for everything to get the most out of doing nothing.
Couldn't prove anything, but had the feeling several times (car significantly more dirty than when I left it, things rearranged in the boot,...).
That, combined with generally bad treatment and service from a dealership from which I bought two brand new cars in a couple of months, just made me go to another dealership (indy).
As for the people surprised by her "mild" reaction, I would have done the same, not gone livid but a stern mail or phonecall to ask for a proper explanation seems just right in this situation.
The valet + tank of gas also seems like the proper response, in addition to -at most- a free service, but I wouldn't expect/want nothing more.
"Take them to the cleaners" is a bit "American" imho. Just sue everybody for everything to get the most out of doing nothing.
Simbu said:
If they've said they'd replace the seats i'd be asking for evidence of the work done. Make no apologies for your lack of trust, they've already broken that.
Also insist the car is filled up to replace the fuel used, and i'd be trying to blag a free service or 2 as a goodwill gesture. Alternatively, go for an extension on the warranty, as you can no longer account for how the car has been treated during some of its run-in.
Not new car worthy, but a massive pisstake and they should be punished. One mention of 'Audi UK' will have them bending over.
Just sabotage the seat backs beyond repair, or remove them completelyAlso insist the car is filled up to replace the fuel used, and i'd be trying to blag a free service or 2 as a goodwill gesture. Alternatively, go for an extension on the warranty, as you can no longer account for how the car has been treated during some of its run-in.
Not new car worthy, but a massive pisstake and they should be punished. One mention of 'Audi UK' will have them bending over.
J4CKO said:
And breaking down in the first place neccesitating the remedial work in the first place, it is funny how people shout from the rooftops when something home grown or mundane goes wrong but kind of brush it under the carpet when something "premium" goes wrong, I just dont think the VAG stuff is that reliable these days, certainly there is a disparity between the perception and the reality judging by the Audi owners I know.
VAG reliability stopped with The Beetle. And even then things went wrong 
It's certainly a rare thing to find a reliable one, totally outclassed by Kia now.
Any way you look at it the dealership behaved pretty appallingly, an extended road test may well have been needed as part of rectifying the fault but to do so without being open and honest with the customer and in such a manner as to leave the car in a noticeably poorer condition is unacceptable regardless of whether they do so in work hours or not - although having said that I think their recourse to fix the issue is adequate.
As for how common the practice is of abusing customer's cars is I'd probably suggest that it's more common then an honest dealer (e.g. markmullen) thinks it is but probably not as common as some of the internet hysteria would have us believe. Mr_annie_vxr has no reason to lie about his experiences and those of his friends so I've found time and again that in situations like this the truth is somewhere in the middle.
I've never had a case happen to me that I could prove - although more than one of my main dealer "minor services" has resulted in a suspicously large amount of fuel being used and miles being done but on those instances I had no before and after evidence (photos etc) so didn't see any point in making an issue of it. This was at a Subaru dealer where I'd heard more than one member of staff (sales and service) complain to me that the dealer didn't allow them turbo cars as overnight loaners so could easily see how such a person might be tempted to "road test" a customer car that was in for a service.
I stopped using them as soon as I found somewhere else suitable to work on the car but more because of their shocking incompetence at working on the car rather than those suspicions though as like I say it was more "hmm... sure I had three quarters of a tank in it when I left it" then anything I'd call concrete.
As for how common the practice is of abusing customer's cars is I'd probably suggest that it's more common then an honest dealer (e.g. markmullen) thinks it is but probably not as common as some of the internet hysteria would have us believe. Mr_annie_vxr has no reason to lie about his experiences and those of his friends so I've found time and again that in situations like this the truth is somewhere in the middle.
I've never had a case happen to me that I could prove - although more than one of my main dealer "minor services" has resulted in a suspicously large amount of fuel being used and miles being done but on those instances I had no before and after evidence (photos etc) so didn't see any point in making an issue of it. This was at a Subaru dealer where I'd heard more than one member of staff (sales and service) complain to me that the dealer didn't allow them turbo cars as overnight loaners so could easily see how such a person might be tempted to "road test" a customer car that was in for a service.
I stopped using them as soon as I found somewhere else suitable to work on the car but more because of their shocking incompetence at working on the car rather than those suspicions though as like I say it was more "hmm... sure I had three quarters of a tank in it when I left it" then anything I'd call concrete.
I'm seconding Garlick on this one. I had a merc which was being 'difficult'.
Service Manager used it for a few days. I never imagined that he would park it up outside his house at the weekend, nor would that have helped ensure that the problem was resolved.
What if the SM had rung and said that he wanted to use the car over the weekend? Would owner have said yes?
Seems he forgot to ask, and the valet was not good (or probably before he used it...).
They've apologised, sort the scuff, and filled it up.
Seems fair to me.
Service Manager used it for a few days. I never imagined that he would park it up outside his house at the weekend, nor would that have helped ensure that the problem was resolved.
What if the SM had rung and said that he wanted to use the car over the weekend? Would owner have said yes?
Seems he forgot to ask, and the valet was not good (or probably before he used it...).
They've apologised, sort the scuff, and filled it up.
Seems fair to me.
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