RE: Aston Martin Reveals V12 Vantage GT3 Racer

[GrahamG]

BanjoMaster said:

Oh wow, I knew I remembered the Graham Goodwin name from somewhere: Right back in the day well over a decade ago on Sportscarworld when Malcolm first opened the forums, and there was Graham, teh Austrian guy who's name escapes me and myself (can't even remember what my nickname was at the time!). I practically LIVED on that board along with those two! I will still never forgive those Texan slotcar tts for what they did to that site

Aah, nostalgia

The Austrian guy was (and still is!) Johannes (Cybersdorf) Gauglica - He's now a professional motoring journo and still one of the best writers I know (and with better written and spoken English than most too!)

I went on to join Malc at the replacement Totalmotorsport and then Dailysportscar sites, taking over from Malc when he had to retire a few years back. (Zebedee btw is another DSC contributor)

I had an hilarious email from Malc a few weeks ago after he found out that the principal Texan website murderer had kicked the bucket! He's not bitter (much!!!)

With apologies - What was your moniker way back then?

[zebedee]

BanjoMaster said:

Oh wow, I knew I remembered the Graham Goodwin name from somewhere: Right back in the day well over a decade ago on Sportscarworld when Malcolm first opened the forums, and there was Graham, teh Austrian guy who's name escapes me and myself (can't even remember what my nickname was at the time!). I practically LIVED on that board along with those two! I will still never forgive those Texan slotcar tts for what they did to that site

Aah, nostalgia

cybersdorf? (edited to add sorry, Graham got their first!)

[JenkinsComp]

BanjoMaster said:

Umm, what are you talking about??? I suspect that not even you know. The GT-R's a V8 is it? News toa lot of people I reckon.

We're living in a little bit of a golden age for GT racing again, both in ACO & SRO sides of the stamp, so a lot of people could do with appreciating this while it lasts instead of spending it whingeing and criticising endlessly. Periods like this tend only to be relatively fleeting in sportscars compared to a lot of other formulas as I'm sure a lot of you know, although the BoP rules (love them or hate them) seem to me to be installing a good amount of stability into proceedings which can only be a good thing given the success/failure porpoising that sportscar racing generally does.

The GT3 formula has breathed a lot of life into both international and national series, and the cars look spectacular and just keep on coming. Long may it continue. It's not perfect, but it's working.

I will always criticize cheating when I see it, especially when the powers that be enshrine it in the rules. Making some teams run with half sized air intakes, or massive ride height and letting others win with 150 kilo mass advantage makes for a hollow unsporting victory. It is like making Man Utd play with 10 men when everyone else has 11 or 12. Would football fans sit back and say, "well it is very stable this way, no one ever wins too much; it's not perfect but it's working!"

Do you care about the meaning of motor sport, or do you just like being entertained by pretty cars going by? I suspect the latter, in which case, long may FIA GT continue!

[GrahamG]

JenkinsComp said:

I will always criticize cheating when I see it, especially when the powers that be enshrine it in the rules. Making some teams run with half sized air intakes, or massive ride height and letting others win with 150 kilo mass advantage makes for a hollow unsporting victory. It is like making Man Utd play with 10 men when everyone else has 11 or 12. Would football fans sit back and say, "well it is very stable this way, no one ever wins too much; it's not perfect but it's working!"

Do you care about the meaning of motor sport, or do you just like being entertained by pretty cars going by? I suspect the latter, in which case, long may FIA GT continue!

Firstly - Nobody is forcing anyone to compete

Secondly - It really is a choice, and one that's being made by the ACO, SRO, FIA and every single competitor. I'm not a fan of Balance of Performance, but there are plenty of competitors out there trying hard despite the constraints - To accuse them, as you are doing, of not racing is just plain wrong.

[joz8968]

Guvernator said:

joz8968 said:

10.

If my numbers come up I'll be contacting AM and putting my order in asap. This would be the FIRST thing I'd do too! fk houses and being all 'mature' with the cash, etc.

^^^ This. As soon as my check had cleared, I'd be knocking on the door of a car dealer at 8am in the morning to put my orders in. The house and all other inconsequentials can wait

lol

[JenkinsComp]

GrahamG said:

Firstly - Nobody is forcing anyone to compete

Secondly - It really is a choice, and one that's being made by the ACO, SRO, FIA and every single competitor. I'm not a fan of Balance of Performance, but there are plenty of competitors out there trying hard despite the constraints - To accuse them, as you are doing, of not racing is just plain wrong.

I am not accusing teams or drivers of not racing to their best ability, I am accusing the rule makers of writing rules that replace sport with entertainment.

No-one is forced to compete, but there is no other FIA GT championship than this one, so if you want to race a GT in an officially recognized series, then you are forced to play by these rules.
Also, National Championships such as the British GT now use the same format (same website style even) as FIA GT, so even local series are rules-handicapped in the same way.

[GrahamG]

That doesn't explain why you describe a set of rules as enshrining cheating.

You may not (and clearly don't) like the philosophy behind them but those responsible for them are perfectly happy to justify their choices.

Perhaps you should use the journalistic access that you clearly have to debate the issue with them?

[zebedee]

JenkinsComp said:

GrahamG said:

Firstly - Nobody is forcing anyone to compete

Secondly - It really is a choice, and one that's being made by the ACO, SRO, FIA and every single competitor. I'm not a fan of Balance of Performance, but there are plenty of competitors out there trying hard despite the constraints - To accuse them, as you are doing, of not racing is just plain wrong.

I am not accusing teams or drivers of not racing to their best ability, I am accusing the rule makers of writing rules that replace sport with entertainment.

No-one is forced to compete, but there is no other FIA GT championship than this one, so if you want to race a GT in an officially recognized series, then you are forced to play by these rules.
Also, National Championships such as the British GT now use the same format (same website style even) as FIA GT, so even local series are rules-handicapped in the same way.

So would you rather have a manufacturer that produces a car that is better than the others and walks away with every single race? Everyone else packs up and goes home and doesn't bother again, or buys the same car, so you get a one make series, which are dull. Alternative is to be far too prescriptive with the rules, so whilst on paper you would expect the cars to be close anyway, the reality is that manufacturers wouldn't comply with them with the base machinery. If a 5.5 litre Corvette is going to race a 4 litre Evora, then you need to help the Evora and hinder the Corvette. Cars can still dominate through wonderful balance, reliability, high engine power despite being restricted as far as the organisers are comfortable with etc etc. That leads to great racing and great entertainment - just look at the last round (or any round) of the ALMS GTE class

[BanjoMaster]

GrahamG said:

The Austrian guy was (and still is!) Johannes (Cybersdorf) Gauglica - He's now a professional motoring journo and still one of the best writers I know (and with better written and spoken English than most too!)

I went on to join Malc at the replacement Totalmotorsport and then Dailysportscar sites, taking over from Malc when he had to retire a few years back. (Zebedee btw is another DSC contributor)

I had an hilarious email from Malc a few weeks ago after he found out that the principal Texan website murderer had kicked the bucket! He's not bitter (much!!!)

With apologies - What was your moniker way back then?

Cybersdorf, that's it! Not surprised that either of you got pulled over the event horizon of motoring journalism. Jealous, yes; surprised, no! I often wish I'd had the balls to follow the same path...

No apologies necessary - even I can't for the life of me remember my own handle on the board (I actually went looking on my old computer to see if I had any reference to it). I wish I could - I'd love to see what brand of nonsense I typed back in the day. Do you still have backups of the old forums? I can even remember some specific posts, but not my name!

Good to see Malcolm's still kept a sense of humour about the whole thing. I remember him being pretty crushed at the time (I was gutted, so I can only imagine what it was like for Malcolm!). Death is possibly too harsh a cosmic punishment for the infamous Texan, but then again I was particularly fond of the site

[chris2010]

Most wanted. 10/10

[BanjoMaster]

zebedee said:

So would you rather have a manufacturer that produces a car that is better than the others and walks away with every single race? Everyone else packs up and goes home and doesn't bother again, or buys the same car, so you get a one make series, which are dull. Alternative is to be far too prescriptive with the rules, so whilst on paper you would expect the cars to be close anyway, the reality is that manufacturers wouldn't comply with them with the base machinery. If a 5.5 litre Corvette is going to race a 4 litre Evora, then you need to help the Evora and hinder the Corvette. Cars can still dominate through wonderful balance, reliability, high engine power despite being restricted as far as the organisers are comfortable with etc etc. That leads to great racing and great entertainment - just look at the last round (or any round) of the ALMS GTE class

Nail. On. Head. The above is what fans have seen time and time again over the decades, and it's a dull and depressing thing to watch play out in front of you.

Let's not forget that even with BoP, diferent tracks suit different cars, so it's not as if you've homogenised the entire field in any way. Also, if you attempt to 'equalise' the cars you leave more room for raw driving talent to show through on the track in my opinion. Knowing that the race was already won on the designer's 'interpretation' of the rules or the size of the project budget is intensely off-putting to most people.

The fact is that we have umpteen top motor manufacturers building spectacular and inspiring cars for both classes, and the relatively free rule book allows a plethora of differing approaches to the regs. We have relative stability, and in many instances some fantastic racing. I gather that these criteria are fairly important to a lot of people who watch motorsports. If this has some here classing me and others who feel the same as some sort of sub-par intellect who's attracted to bright, shiny objects and 'pretty cars going by', then so be it. I'm obviously not grasp their particular slant on the meaning of motor sport. Nevermind, eh?

[Zed Ed]

[VPower]

Zed Ed said:

So no more Ring time this, Ring time that?

The poof will be in the pudding, well the results actually!

So who else is looking forward to this new era of GT3 battling as much as F1.

[Guvernator]

VPower said:

Zed Ed said:

So no more Ring time this, Ring time that?

The poof will be in the pudding, well the results actually!

So who else is looking forward to this new era of GT3 battling as much as F1.

I find modern F1 utterly sleep inducing whereas I love a bit of GT racing. Bumper to bumper racing and surprise surprise overtaking in a race rather then a procession of cars who only change position when they stop for fuel. Also the fact that you can actually buy cars which are kind of similiar makes it all the more interesting for me.