Removing Catalytic converters, legality ?
Discussion
Keep seeign cars advertised as having been decatted but they are newer than the cut off of 1991 (I think ) for the emmissions regulations, can some cars pass an MOT without a cat or would it be a case of refitting them/it come MOT time ?
Is there any legal requirement to have a cat in place as long as you meet the emmissions regs ?
Is there any legal requirement to have a cat in place as long as you meet the emmissions regs ?
liner33 said:
Until next year when no cat on a previously cat equipped car will be a instant fail irrespective of emissions
One wonders how it will be possible to police such a daft bit of legislation.How do they check whether or not you have a catalyst connected. Are they going to dismantle your car every MOT? I think not.
julian64 said:
One wonders how it will be possible to police such a daft bit of legislation.
How do they check whether or not you have a catalyst connected. Are they going to dismantle your car every MOT? I think not.
Well they do a visual inspection for it I believe.. a straight through pipe looks quite a lot different to a cat obviously. Cars go on ramps for MOT's generally so it only takes a few seconds to check! How do they check whether or not you have a catalyst connected. Are they going to dismantle your car every MOT? I think not.
However.. it's hard to differentiate if you've taken the cat off and smashed the innards out
And then I believe your emissions will generally be well off without the cat anyway - so you'll fail.
Chicane-UK said:
Well they do a visual inspection for it I believe.. a straight through pipe looks quite a lot different to a cat obviously. Cars go on ramps for MOT's generally so it only takes a few seconds to check!
However.. it's hard to differentiate if you've taken the cat off and smashed the innards out
And then I believe your emissions will generally be well off without the cat anyway - so you'll fail.
Well, if it's a visual inspection that they'll rely on - and since they can't dismantle anything in an MOT - I wouldn't care because there are too many undertrays to see it However.. it's hard to differentiate if you've taken the cat off and smashed the innards out
And then I believe your emissions will generally be well off without the cat anyway - so you'll fail.
Garlick!!! 
Chicane-UK said:
julian64 said:
One wonders how it will be possible to police such a daft bit of legislation.
How do they check whether or not you have a catalyst connected. Are they going to dismantle your car every MOT? I think not.
Well they do a visual inspection for it I believe.. a straight through pipe looks quite a lot different to a cat obviously. Cars go on ramps for MOT's generally so it only takes a few seconds to check! How do they check whether or not you have a catalyst connected. Are they going to dismantle your car every MOT? I think not.
However.. it's hard to differentiate if you've taken the cat off and smashed the innards out
And then I believe your emissions will generally be well off without the cat anyway - so you'll fail.
paragraph one ?
paragraph two, getting warmer. I would however say impossible unless you have xray vision.
paragraph three. If your emissions are well off I believe they already have a problem with that on the avergae MOT without inventing new laws to cover it.
So your reply, while not wanting to be rude, seems a little like you've been drinking, or you were answering someone elses post?
McSam said:
liner33 said:
Until next year when no cat on a previously cat equipped car will be a instant fail irrespective of emissions
TVR boys are gonna love this one.Roadside stops might be an issue, but how often do you see them? And how do they even know what to look for?
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Just refit it for the MOT anyway.
Roadside stops might be an issue, but how often do you see them? And how do they even know what to look for?
Dave
And how would they get far enough under to check.Roadside stops might be an issue, but how often do you see them? And how do they even know what to look for?
Dave
What about bikes? my BMW has lost is CAT, it fell off along with several other annoyingly restrictive bits of plastic.
There was a longish discussioon on this in SP&L recently (only started it for a quick yes or no!):
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t...
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t...
Time to wrap my straight pipes in old cat skins
It really is mad legislation as anyone who actually has done these kinds of mods will just do what they need to do to avoid them anyway.
Like the ECU/tuning alterations part, how will they ever find out? Checksum check is a valid method, but that doesn't mean anything other than a data change, it might be one bit in a file to change something irrelevant to the engine.
I note in the earlier PDF link it says 'proposed'
Are these actually in writing and due to come into force next year then?
You could technically argue the current MOT regs don't allow 'missing' exhaust sections, but it depends how you read the word missing. Missing as in totally missing, or a part you know should be there (cat) is missing?
In the same manner, I'm sure the new rules can be creatively interpreted to avoid problems. If you tell the MOT tester that the straight pipe is indeed a catalytic converter, can they claim it isn't? How can they do so without proof etc?
Cans of worms because it's still vague, which likely means it'll be largely ignored if your MOT tester is so inclined!
Dave
It really is mad legislation as anyone who actually has done these kinds of mods will just do what they need to do to avoid them anyway.
Like the ECU/tuning alterations part, how will they ever find out? Checksum check is a valid method, but that doesn't mean anything other than a data change, it might be one bit in a file to change something irrelevant to the engine.
I note in the earlier PDF link it says 'proposed'
Are these actually in writing and due to come into force next year then?
You could technically argue the current MOT regs don't allow 'missing' exhaust sections, but it depends how you read the word missing. Missing as in totally missing, or a part you know should be there (cat) is missing?
In the same manner, I'm sure the new rules can be creatively interpreted to avoid problems. If you tell the MOT tester that the straight pipe is indeed a catalytic converter, can they claim it isn't? How can they do so without proof etc?
Cans of worms because it's still vague, which likely means it'll be largely ignored if your MOT tester is so inclined!
Dave
Ok it is time to put this one to bed once and for all.
Hopefully when those arriving here from a google search will get the correct info.
Here it is:
Any car manufactured after the date of 1993 or registered in the UK on or after this date must be fitted with a CAT. No exceptions, No modifications just that is it.
How it fails the MOT.
CAT registered cars have much tighter emission regs. This means for cars pre 1993 including carbed cars have to meet around 3% emission levels in a set period of time. You wont get a CAT on a CARBed engine it will burn the CAT out very fast.
Fuel injected CAT cars registered after 1993 have to meet 0.3% at different RPM rates. This can only ever be achieved with the presence of a CAT and as of 2016 these values are going to be even tighter for new cars.
If a police officer sees you have moded the car and removed the CAT then you have voided your insurance. On that alone you are now driving un-insured and your car will be seized. Not very nice of them the ***** but that is how they have worked it and yes it is deliberate.
It comes under, not driving in accordance with the rules and regulations set out by the DVLA.
If you were granted an MOT without a CAT on a new after 1993 car that is not a kit car as such then you have to prove that and show how the emission were within the set levels. I not sure how anyone could master up that one without it being cheated somehow.
Of course the DVLA and MOT inspectors would be all over the MOT station like a rash probably even removing their ability to do MOT's.
If you hate CAT cars, buy a pre 1993 classic with a carb and give them the finger. It is the only way. Many old cars had biscuit tins for a backbox from the factory so you can still use a very loud biscuit tin as a backbox as that was what was on the car when it was made. It can never be considered a modification.
And that is how it is. Any form of deviation from this would land you in more **** than it is worth. Oh yea and yes it has everything to do with the sad act called the European Union.
Hopefully when those arriving here from a google search will get the correct info.
Here it is:
Any car manufactured after the date of 1993 or registered in the UK on or after this date must be fitted with a CAT. No exceptions, No modifications just that is it.
How it fails the MOT.
CAT registered cars have much tighter emission regs. This means for cars pre 1993 including carbed cars have to meet around 3% emission levels in a set period of time. You wont get a CAT on a CARBed engine it will burn the CAT out very fast.
Fuel injected CAT cars registered after 1993 have to meet 0.3% at different RPM rates. This can only ever be achieved with the presence of a CAT and as of 2016 these values are going to be even tighter for new cars.
If a police officer sees you have moded the car and removed the CAT then you have voided your insurance. On that alone you are now driving un-insured and your car will be seized. Not very nice of them the ***** but that is how they have worked it and yes it is deliberate.
It comes under, not driving in accordance with the rules and regulations set out by the DVLA.
If you were granted an MOT without a CAT on a new after 1993 car that is not a kit car as such then you have to prove that and show how the emission were within the set levels. I not sure how anyone could master up that one without it being cheated somehow.
Of course the DVLA and MOT inspectors would be all over the MOT station like a rash probably even removing their ability to do MOT's.
If you hate CAT cars, buy a pre 1993 classic with a carb and give them the finger. It is the only way. Many old cars had biscuit tins for a backbox from the factory so you can still use a very loud biscuit tin as a backbox as that was what was on the car when it was made. It can never be considered a modification.
And that is how it is. Any form of deviation from this would land you in more **** than it is worth. Oh yea and yes it has everything to do with the sad act called the European Union.
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