Ringing kits for sale on ebay...No not on our watch!
Discussion
LLantrisant said:
that car is obviously a Locust....locUst´s are using cortina as donor...so this car never used and does not use any component of a triumph.
locust cars (incl. the ebay car) have their own ladder frame chassis, plywood body skinned with aluminium, front subrame of cortina, incl. cortina whishbones, hubs, brakes, steering, engine, gearbox, live-axle, pdeal-box...even the speedometer is from the donor-cortina.
this car isnt a speical, nor a modified triumph...its a LocUst, built in the 90ies..possibly finished after SVA came into force and instead of doing the test, somebody took a V5c from a triumph.
this car is a 100% ringer!!!
i hope the final bid wont be from a genuine ebay-er...he will get a 100% incorrectly registered car...which is illegal to drive on the road.
That does seem to be the case to me. Which is why I woud recommend avoiding that car. Why buy trouble?locust cars (incl. the ebay car) have their own ladder frame chassis, plywood body skinned with aluminium, front subrame of cortina, incl. cortina whishbones, hubs, brakes, steering, engine, gearbox, live-axle, pdeal-box...even the speedometer is from the donor-cortina.
this car isnt a speical, nor a modified triumph...its a LocUst, built in the 90ies..possibly finished after SVA came into force and instead of doing the test, somebody took a V5c from a triumph.
this car is a 100% ringer!!!
i hope the final bid wont be from a genuine ebay-er...he will get a 100% incorrectly registered car...which is illegal to drive on the road.
Edited by LLantrisant on Sunday 15th May 18:23
Ringing isn't only to hide the identity of a stolen, written off or age a vehicle; sometimes identities are used to bypass the IVA or if done in the past SVA. No doubt the MOT's have all been done by a friendly garage since the car was built and the new owner will have to have an as friendly MOT tester or it will be flagged for VOSA to look into.
As I suggested I don't have a barge pole long enough.
As I suggested I don't have a barge pole long enough.
LLantrisant said:
that car is obviously a Locust....locUst´s are using cortina as donor...so this car never used and does not use any component of a triumph.
locust cars (incl. the ebay car) have their own ladder frame chassis, plywood body skinned with aluminium, front subrame of cortina, incl. cortina whishbones, hubs, brakes, steering, engine, gearbox, live-axle, pdeal-box...even the speedometer is from the donor-cortina.
this car isnt a speical, nor a modified triumph...its a LocUst, built in the 90ies..possibly finished after SVA came into force and instead of doing the test, somebody took a V5c from a triumph.
this car is a 100% ringer!!!
i hope the final bid wont be from a genuine ebay-er...he will get a 100% incorrectly registered car...which is illegal to drive on the road.
So the I.D of a worthless, long dead Herald is used to put a kit car on the road? Wow, big deal. Nothing's been nicked, or passed off as something it isn't. Nobody is being conned. It's clearly not a Herald. I would personally have used a Ford logbook but hey ho.locust cars (incl. the ebay car) have their own ladder frame chassis, plywood body skinned with aluminium, front subrame of cortina, incl. cortina whishbones, hubs, brakes, steering, engine, gearbox, live-axle, pdeal-box...even the speedometer is from the donor-cortina.
this car isnt a speical, nor a modified triumph...its a LocUst, built in the 90ies..possibly finished after SVA came into force and instead of doing the test, somebody took a V5c from a triumph.
this car is a 100% ringer!!!
i hope the final bid wont be from a genuine ebay-er...he will get a 100% incorrectly registered car...which is illegal to drive on the road.
Edited by LLantrisant on Sunday 15th May 18:23
marshalla said:
iSore said:
So the I.D of a worthless, long dead Herald is used to put a kit car on the road? Wow, big deal. Nothing's been nicked, or passed off as something it isn't. Nobody is being conned. It's clearly not a Herald. I would personally have used a Ford logbook but hey ho.
It's people like this who would rather take a short cut then do the job properly that has made the kit car industry a laughing stock and government step in and make it more and more difficult for legitimate kit car builders, hot rod builders and car restorers to do anything.
If the car hasn't been SVA/IVA'd what makes you think anything has been done properly? Why would the builder need to bypass the SVA/IVA in the first place? What has the car been insured as since it's been built? Because the car is from a kit made in the 90's how much Tax has been avoided by using an exempt identity?
While I agree this isn't the purpose of this thread it is a valid point, well made and the car is at best a pile of parts.
Liquid Knight said:
If by virtue of bypassing the IVA or SVA should the kit car fails on the road killing both driver and passenger the person who built it would be guilty of Manslaughter and if the ringing kit was bought like the listings we highlight on this thread the person who sold it would either be called as a co-defendant or "accessory after the fact" if it came to court.
It's people like this who would rather take a short cut then do the job properly that has made the kit car industry a laughing stock and government step in and make it more and more difficult for legitimate kit car builders, hot rod builders and car restorers to do anything.
If the car hasn't been SVA/IVA'd what makes you think anything has been done properly? Why would the builder need to bypass the SVA/IVA in the first place? What has the car been insured as since it's been built? Because the car is from a kit made in the 90's how much Tax has been avoided by using an exempt identity?
While I agree this isn't the purpose of this thread it is a valid point, well made and the car is at best a pile of parts.
But the car isn't a ringer. We aren't discussing your (perfectly valid) point, but the crusade against logbooks being sold. How about the Chesil Speedsters that are still registered as being a VW Beetle? Are you suggesting the owner of this Lotus 7 copy is insuring it as a Herald? It's people like this who would rather take a short cut then do the job properly that has made the kit car industry a laughing stock and government step in and make it more and more difficult for legitimate kit car builders, hot rod builders and car restorers to do anything.
If the car hasn't been SVA/IVA'd what makes you think anything has been done properly? Why would the builder need to bypass the SVA/IVA in the first place? What has the car been insured as since it's been built? Because the car is from a kit made in the 90's how much Tax has been avoided by using an exempt identity?
While I agree this isn't the purpose of this thread it is a valid point, well made and the car is at best a pile of parts.
iSore said:
But the car isn't a ringer. We aren't discussing your (perfectly valid) point, but the crusade against logbooks being sold. How about the Chesil Speedsters that are still registered as being a VW Beetle? Are you suggesting the owner of this Lotus 7 copy is insuring it as a Herald?
My Manslaughter suggestion is an absolute worse case scenario but as soon as it's sold as a Ford based "kit car" and not a Triumph Herald it's fraud.marshalla said:
No, I didn't - and I still don't. That vehicle was clearly not what it claimed to be.
So when I said "Nobody is being conned. It's clearly not a Herald"............................was that not clear enough?It's clearly a kit car using the ID of a dead Herald. Big deal. Lots of kit cars use ID's from a donor of some sort. Many including this one are very tenuous. It is what it is.
iSore said:
So when I said "Nobody is being conned. It's clearly not a Herald"............................was that not clear enough?
It's clearly a kit car using the ID of a dead Herald. Big deal. Lots of kit cars use ID's from a donor of some sort. Many including this one are very tenuous. It is what it is.
It's still a form of ringing, still unlawful and still a bottomless pit for someone to fall into because the "Everyone has done it" defense never, ever works when you get caught.It's clearly a kit car using the ID of a dead Herald. Big deal. Lots of kit cars use ID's from a donor of some sort. Many including this one are very tenuous. It is what it is.
Back in 1974, someone I used to work with bought a damaged 1968 Escort 1300GT, an early one with the rear tramp bars. He worked in the body shop at a BL dealer in Yeovil and rebuilt it as an RS2000. He stripped it, put a new front end on, replaced the sills (already rusty!), colour changed it to Sebring red, added a 2000 Cortina Mark III engine and gearbox, converted it to round headlights and added the correct parts - wheels, bits of trim, badges etc so that it looked and went like a real one. When it was done, he took it to the registration office in Taunton and registered it. It went down as an M plate Escort RS2000, hand written on the old buff logbook and the original logbook was forgotten about.
I do wonder if it's still around, and what would you make of it now? It was a collection of new and used bits, registered by a government authority as something it wasn't. Back them they didn't bother about age related numbers. I wish I could recall the number - it was something distinctive like XYD3M but I've tried various permutations on the DVLA website with no joy.
I do wonder if it's still around, and what would you make of it now? It was a collection of new and used bits, registered by a government authority as something it wasn't. Back them they didn't bother about age related numbers. I wish I could recall the number - it was something distinctive like XYD3M but I've tried various permutations on the DVLA website with no joy.
iSore said:
But who is suffering as a result?
Does it really matter?
Who will lose out? (EFA)
The new owner, everyone who pays tax, everyone who pays insurance and all the legitimate kit car builders who are tarred with this kind of brush.Does it really matter?
Who will lose out? (EFA)
To some obviously not to others definitely.
The new owner will be a victim of fraud and if caught on the road could potentially loose the car, anything they paid for it and maybe get a criminal record and/or points on their license as well as a fine. Not to mention their insurance premium will be a minimum five times as much as it was for the next three to five years.
Why is insurance a question? Phone any of them up and they will ask for your details, the vehicles details and as soon as you give them the number plate it will come up on their computer as a Triumph Herald. Then explain to them it's a Ford based kit car and not a Triumph at all and see how the conversation goes.
This is where I would usually say...
"Back on topic"
...and post a few or more eBay listings having looked for five minutes.
Well done eBay.
My usual searches haven't come up with anything suspect for once.
Even memorabilia listings are old log books that can not be put to criminal use.
"Back on topic"
...and post a few or more eBay listings having looked for five minutes.
Well done eBay.
My usual searches haven't come up with anything suspect for once.
Even memorabilia listings are old log books that can not be put to criminal use.
I knew it was too good to be true.
Luckily the DVLA have stepped up since computers have been involved.
iSore said:
Back in 1974, someone I used to work with bought a damaged 1968 Escort 1300GT, an early one with the rear tramp bars. He worked in the body shop at a BL dealer in Yeovil and rebuilt it as an RS2000. He stripped it, put a new front end on, replaced the sills (already rusty!), colour changed it to Sebring red, added a 2000 Cortina Mark III engine and gearbox, converted it to round headlights and added the correct parts - wheels, bits of trim, badges etc so that it looked and went like a real one. When it was done, he took it to the registration office in Taunton and registered it. It went down as an M plate Escort RS2000, hand written on the old buff logbook and the original logbook was forgotten about.
Heard similar stories several times. Did you know there are more Lotus Cortina's registered now than were ever built? Luckily the DVLA have stepped up since computers have been involved.
back to the Locust registered as triumph:
is it possible that all MOT testers over the years who tested the car closed both eyes as they also could clearly identify that not a single part of a triumph has been used on that car.
or do they not care about such issues as its not their job?
is it possible that all MOT testers over the years who tested the car closed both eyes as they also could clearly identify that not a single part of a triumph has been used on that car.
or do they not care about such issues as its not their job?
LLantrisant said:
back to the Locust registered as triumph:
is it possible that all MOT testers over the years who tested the car closed both eyes as they also could clearly identify that not a single part of a triumph has been used on that car.
or do they not care about such issues as its not their job?
is it possible that all MOT testers over the years who tested the car closed both eyes as they also could clearly identify that not a single part of a triumph has been used on that car.
or do they not care about such issues as its not their job?
Back off topic eh?
Number plate checks are only there to make sure the plates are held securely and all the letters and numbers are clearly visible on a correctly coloured plate with proper letter sizing and spacing.
The VIN number has to be on permanent display either a VIN plate secured to the vehicle or stamped/etched into the body.
That is all that is required for the MOT. Some don't bother to look at all, some by the book testers will say "okay all the plates check out and are the numbers are the same as the log book, what's next?" as they have twenty five MOT's to do that day; others will look at the car look at the V5C and refuse to test the vehicle because it's obvious the plates do not correspond to the vehicle at all.
There are some cases where the MOT tester forgot his/her guide dog that day and other cases where MOT testers have been reported to VOSA and lost their business. If like in this case the car is obviously nothing to do with the log book it's up the tester to either proceed or not, even then if the numbers match the V5C there is little they can do.
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