Ringing kits for sale on ebay...No not on our watch!

[MJ85]

Cliftonite said:

Morris Minors are plentiful and easy to steal.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191983677077?ul_noapp=tr...

Removed, which is good.

[anonymous-user]

I don't get this thread fully. We have V5's being reported to Ebay and yet LK is buying them, we have a fine line between right and wrong and it's really in the intent of the seller/buyer. All confusing.

There will be sellers who have a pile of rust with a V5 to enable a full rebuild to have an identity if the previous one was lost, and sellers who haven't had the car for decades and are hoping they can cash in on the document and turn a blind eye to the use.

In any event who's going to get upset about a Morris 1000 V5 being sold?? If it becomes impossible to do (which seems to be the aim of this thread) the crook might just as well buy a cheap wreck with a bit of chassis and a wheel and it would be under you radar??? So what's the point.

In the 1980's there were so many V5's like this the DVLA went round inspecting large 'owners' and any V5 without there being a recognisable lump of car was nulled. An ancient scrappy in our village was visited and boasted 'they came as I had over 400 cars in my name but the ******'s only found 55 so cancelled the rest, we had a row about a good few but I showed them the bits of chassis in the brambles...'
So.... maybe time for DVLA to do it again...

[Liquid Knight]

As I have already explained. I'm only buying ones that don't get removed in time and I can afford. I then send them to the DVLA with a letter explaining the situation and leaving it up the the DVLA to take action against those who unlawfully sold their property or not. By returning it to them I am doing nothing illegal, but most importantly I have stopped someone else from using that identity for something illegal.

For every one I have bought I must have reported at least a hundred and posted them here for everyone else to report as well.

[Liquid Knight]

V6Pushfit said:

In any event who's going to get upset about a Morris 1000 V5 being sold??

I don't know, someone who has just had their Morris Minor nicked and find it on eBay a week later with a different number plate.

V6Pushfit said:

In the 1980's there were so many V5's like this the DVLA went round inspecting large 'owners' and any V5 without there being a recognisable lump of car was nulled. An ancient scrappy in our village was visited and boasted 'they came as I had over 400 cars in my name but the ******'s only found 55 so cancelled the rest, we had a row about a good few but I showed them the bits of chassis in the brambles...'
So.... maybe time for DVLA to do it again...

Sounds like a good idea but most of the ones on eBay are not being sold by the registered keeper and since computerisation and the introduction of Certificates of Destruction scrap yards hording log books is all but impossible.

[anonymous-user]

Liquid Knight said:

As I have already explained. I'm only buying ones that don't get removed in time and I can afford. I then send them to the DVLA with a letter explaining the situation and leaving it up the the DVLA to take action against those who unlawfully sold their property or not. By returning it to them I am doing nothing illegal, but most importantly I have stopped someone else from using that identity for something illegal.

For every one I have bought I must have reported at least a hundred and posted them here for everyone else to report as well.

It's very honourable of you but aren't you doing their work for them? I am assuming you are Kosher and not keeping them on the side.
And do the DVLA even thank you as I presume they don't give a toss. Particularly if you are spending thousands of your own money doing it!
It seems a bit of an extreme hobby I have to say. In fact the most extreme I have ever heard of

[Liquid Knight]

As for the rusty wreck argument there is little we can do but the blatant sale of log books and VIN plates is something we can and are doing something about.

I for one appreciate all the effort followers and contributors to this thread have been and continue to make. This may well be the tip of the iceberg but we're pouring salt on it.

Keep up the good work guys.

[anonymous-user]

Liquid Knight said:

As for the rusty wreck argument there is little we can do but the blatant sale of log books and VIN plates is something we can and are doing something about.

I for one appreciate all the effort followers and contributors to this thread have been and continue to make. This may well be the tip of the iceberg but we're pouring salt on it.

Keep up the good work guys.

Is it worth getting the papers/MP's involved or minister for Transport?

[GC8]

No.

[GC8]

GC8 said:

GinG15 said:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351829542727

westfield still on escort logbook

An Escort special. People don't seem to realise that this was perfectly legitimate.

I will add to this and say that it was perfectly legitimate providing that it was inspected by their local VRO. If it was then it could have been registered as a Ford Escort special. I suspect that it would have had the registration details amended to Westfield later on, but Escort Special was certainly a legitimate description of some vehicles in some periods.

[anonymous-user]

GC8 said:

No.

Pourquoi?

[Liquid Knight]

GC8 said:

No.

Keeping our efforts on the forum means fellow enthusiasts are aware but if the press were to get involved criminals would be and change their modus operandi to something we can not be as proactive about.

[anonymous-user]

Liquid Knight said:

Keeping our efforts on the forum means fellow enthusiasts are aware but if the press were to get involved criminals would be and change their modus operandi to something we can not be as proactive about.

Thanks for the explanation. As an outsider it simply doesn't stack up that you're keen on investing time and funds into something that can be stopped by a change in the rules. You're also regarding anyone with a V5 as a party to a fraud and anyone buying one as a criminal and you can't be certain of that.

So, it's costing you personally to buy V5's and then give them away, and not wanting the issue that you say exists to be stopped so you are happy to continue the crusade for ever as that's what will inevitably have to happen. Put another way happy to stem the flow but not have the water turned off.

Apologies but it just doesn't make sense.

[Liquid Knight]

V6Pushfit said:

Thanks for the explanation. As an outsider it simply doesn't stack up that you're keen on investing time and funds into something that can be stopped by a change in the rules. You're also regarding anyone with a V5 as a party to a fraud and anyone buying one as a criminal and you can't be certain of that.

The people selling these identities may not be aware they are breaking the law and they may not be aware the ones who are buying them have criminal intentions but to quote a very high ranking judge...

"Ignorance is no defense".

With listings like this...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AUSTIN-MINI-1963-V5-LOGB...

...it's obvious that a piece of paper isn't worth £400 and there is more going on.

West Midlands Police are aware.

[anonymous-user]

^ he's selling it so someone can put an ID on one of the many minis being rebuilt which has lost it. I just don't see criminal intentions everywhere.
Q: how many Minis or Austin 10's are nicked every year? I should imagine 0-1
Q: how many Mini or A10 rebuilds from basket case? Maybe 20-50+ of which some will have no ID remaining

I just think you're barking up the wrong tree here and if you feel that strongly there's a loophole then go the Press/MP route. The whole using £1000s+ of you own money just seems bizarre. Giving the V5's back to DVLA - do you have receipts?

[mgtony]

V6Pushfit said:

^ he's selling it so someone can put an ID on one of the many minis being rebuilt which has lost it. I just don't see criminal intentions everywhere.
Q: how many Minis or Austin 10's are nicked every year? I should imagine 0-1
Q: how many Mini or A10 rebuilds from basket case? Maybe 20-50+ of which some will have no ID remaining

I just think you're barking up the wrong tree here and if you feel that strongly there's a loophole then go the Press/MP route. The whole using £1000s+ of you own money just seems bizarre. Giving the V5's back to DVLA - do you have receipts?

Do you seriously believe only maybe one Mini might get stolen a year? This pair alone were responsible for at least a dozen which were either cloned or broken for parts:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/jail-for-men-...

Perhaps have a look into the number of stolen classic cars.

[anonymous-user]

mgtony said:

Do you seriously believe only maybe one Mini might get stolen a year? This pair alone were responsible for at least a dozen which were either cloned or broken for parts:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/jail-for-men-...

Perhaps have a look into the number of stolen classic cars.

Ok, apologies and understood.

My point though with LK's operation is that its the equivalent of fighting a drugs war by firstly trying to prevent each individual selling drugs and if that fails then buying the drugs.

...ie it just wont work its unsustainable. It needs to be bought to the attention of the Press/Minister to get the law changed/enforced and then DVLA to change their rules. ONLY then can this be stopped.

[Liquid Knight]

V6Pushfit said:

^ he's selling it so someone can put an ID on one of the many minis being rebuilt which has lost it. I just don't see criminal intentions everywhere.

That's Ringing.

[anonymous-user]

Still the drugs war comparison, so this thread will continue to infinity and beyond without greater and higher level action. It would be more useful to start a website database of all V5's for sale with all details etc so future buyers can check it against a car they are buying.

[GC8]

Liquid Knight said:

V6Pushfit said:

^ he's selling it so someone can put an ID on one of the many minis being rebuilt which has lost it. I just don't see criminal intentions everywhere.

That's Ringing.

And that is a meaningless slang term.

[anonymous-user]

So, starting at the other end, are there receipts from the DVLA for the V5's sent back to them and what do they do with the numbers - put them up for sale via their cherished numbers dept or make them permanently cancelled? Is there actual evidence that a V5 number bought from eBay and sent to them now no longer exists?