Ringing kits for sale on ebay...No not on our watch!

[Trixxz]

cptsideways said:

If I were a police officer investigating car theft it would not be difficult to find stolen cars!


Just scour previous ebay ads for V5's & Chassis plates, check what has since had a recent MOT turn up to the latest registered address & find yourself a ringer.


It would not be difficult would it?

Greater Manchester Police found the remains of my stolen ST via ebay - Whether its true or not, the officer told me Ebay has some "system" that flags up odd listings - In my case the block and suspension triggered an alert and they found various other bits of my car when they paid the seller a visit!

[Liquid Knight]

"Allegedly built in the 90's" so could pre-date IVA/SVA but I agree it still needs registering properly. To do that now would involve the IVA process.

Another one for this thread...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Good spot.

[InitialDave]

Liquid Knight said:

"Allegedly built in the 90's" so could pre-date IVA/SVA but I agree it still needs registering properly. To do that now would involve the IVA process.

I agree.

It's silly, too, as I believe they had something approaching an amnesty for old kit cars when the SVA test was coming in, so it was just a paperwork exercise to get it sorted with the right thing on the V5.

Though perhaps it says something like "Triumph Special" on there, which may be ok? I can never remember exactly what you were/weren't allowed.

[Steffan]

InitialDave said:

Liquid Knight said:

"Allegedly built in the 90's" so could pre-date IVA/SVA but I agree it still needs registering properly. To do that now would involve the IVA process.

I agree.

It's silly, too, as I believe they had something approaching an amnesty for old kit cars when the SVA test was coming in, so it was just a paperwork exercise to get it sorted with the right thing on the V5.

Though perhaps it says something like "Triumph Special" on there, which may be ok? I can never remember exactly what you were/weren't allowed.

I agree. Such unregistered kit cars are dead ducks nowadays. Simply completely uneconomic to try and get such cars through IVA. It would be cheaper and much, much easier to buy a new kit car base designed to be compliant with IVA.

Sadly as the fidlers have discovered passing off such unregistered cars by using stolen kitcar identities with the VIN plate and number plates being the only connexion with the original cars is relatively easy. Thieves seek easy money.

That is why every enthusiast must be very thorough in checking the provenace, hstory and paperwork on kit cars for sale thoroughly, before buying a kit car nowadays. There are a lot of these misrepresentations about with kit cars nowadays!

[Liquid Knight]

MUT 578F

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/109-Series-2A-Land-Rover...

RBO 529R

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Series-3-1977...

KHW 185L

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Landrover-Series-3-Swb-B...

Relisted again.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Sereis-3-Bulk...

Bits of a Mini shell with the wrong identity to go with it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/morris-mini-mk11-1968-lo...

These twunts again...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-MINI-MK2-HISTORI...

...and again.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HISTORIC-TAX-EXEMPT-CLAS...

Relisted.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cortina-mk-1-1500-gt-log...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V5-Log-Book-P-Reg-Ford-E...5MAAOSwZJBYBj78

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V5-Log-Book-X-Reg-Jaguar...

[Steffan]

Liquid Knight said:

MUT 578F

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/109-Series-2A-Land-Rover...

RBO 529R

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Series-3-1977...

KHW 185L

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Landrover-Series-3-Swb-B...

Relisted again.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Sereis-3-Bulk...

Bits of a Mini shell with the wrong identity to go with it.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/morris-mini-mk11-1968-lo...

These twunts again...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CLASSIC-MINI-MK2-HISTORI...

...and again.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HISTORIC-TAX-EXEMPT-CLAS...

Relisted.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cortina-mk-1-1500-gt-log...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V5-Log-Book-P-Reg-Ford-E...5MAAOSwZJBYBj78

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V5-Log-Book-X-Reg-Jaguar...

I respect your efforts to stop such criminal activity.

There must be a market for such obvious mspreresentation to thrive. Pity because genuine enthusiasts will be hoodwinked as a result. The auction houses could and should stop this. Sadly they too serve the God of Mammon and making money becomes more important than being honest. Buyer beware is the ONLY defence!

[Cliftonite]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262694128848?ul_ref=http...

[GinG15]

what makes me wonder how all those wrongly registered kitcars anually pass the MOT and even they are listed here, maybe also reported to the authorities, that nothing happens.

seems the dvla or who else might be responsible is not taking care or isnt interested?

i´m sure some "officials" are also reading / following this thread...and they do nothing?

[CanAm]

GinG15 said:

what makes me wonder how all those wrongly registered kitcars anually pass the MOT and even they are listed here, maybe also reported to the authorities, that nothing happens.

seems the dvla or who else might be responsible is not taking care or isnt interested?

i´m sure some "officials" are also reading / following this thread...and they do nothing?

Because your average MOT tester knows nothing about kitcars? (though they should spot a Robin Hood registered as a Triumph!)
There is one RH I've seen at car shows, which has got Lotus badges in every possible location, plus a few more. It was being avidly snapped by a Japanese "enthusiast".

[Liquid Knight]

I have never been asked to present the V5C to an MOT tester. It's all done by computer. They put the number plate in, do the test, pass or fail and you're on your way.

Some MOT testers only do that and don't even know how to change a tyre so expecting them to Police the legitimacy of what as car is compared to what a piece of paper says it is can be a little egregious.

One chap I know has had a Ford Escort van for close to thirty years. He converted it from 1.3 petrol to 1.8 turbo diesel around 2001-ish and even that hasn't been flagged up by any MOT tester since.

[wolf1]

Liquid Knight said:

I have never been asked to present the V5C to an MOT tester. It's all done by computer. They put the number plate in, do the test, pass or fail and you're on your way.

Some MOT testers only do that and don't even know how to change a tyre so expecting them to Police the legitimacy of what as car is compared to what a piece of paper says it is can be a little egregious.

Pretty much sums up your complete lack of knowledge of the MOT system and the requirements and qualifications required to be a nominated tester.

Liquid Knight said:

One chap I know has had a Ford Escort van for close to thirty years. He converted it from 1.3 petrol to 1.8 turbo diesel around 2001-ish and even that hasn't been flagged up by any MOT tester since.

and why should it? The MOT test is purely a test of roadworthyness nothing more.

[GC8]

In many ways LK doesn't know as much as he thinks.

[Liquid Knight]

Critique aside; I have never been asked to present a V5C when I have taken any vehicle of mine for an MOT. Having said that none of my vehicles have ever been of questionable origin.

Apart from local garages that do MOT's as well as service and repair work I do know an MOT tester who can not change a tyre.

[Liquid Knight]

wolf1 said:

why should it? The MOT test is purely a test of roadworthyness nothing more.

Exactly the point I was making. The MOT has little to do with the identity of the vehicle.

[imagineifyeswill]

Before the MOT computerisation scheme if you wanted to have a car requiring its first MOT done a month early you had to produce the V5. The V5 number was written on the certificate where the previous test certificate number would normally go.

[wolf1]

Liquid Knight said:

Critique aside; I have never been asked to present a V5C when I have taken any vehicle of mine for an MOT.

That's because it is not required. The only thing you need to present for an MOT is the vehicle itself. All that is required is the registration number and the vin number to log a vehicle on for test, both of which (unless it's a first test for registration purposes) are attached to the vehicle itself.

It isn't the testers job to play amateur detective as to the vehicles identity or whether or not the engine and transmission are original etc etc. They are purely tasked with the task of reporting whether or not that vehicle at that time satisfies the minimum requirements of the MOT test. Test as presented is how MOTs are conducted.

GinG15 said:

even the stupidest MOT tester should recognize the differnce between a triumph dolomite and a robinhood, i guesss?

does the same tester also pass a VW Golf with a vauxhall astra V5c?

Those scoffing whether a tester could tell the difference between a dolly or a kit car should think on that neither are common and a large percentage of testers were born long after plenty of cars had ceased production such as the dolomite which was last built in 1980 (source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Dolomite ) and I have a tester who was born in 1992, twelve years later and has probably never seen a dolomite before, does that make him stupid? Or those making the statement as they neglected to calculate that or to even establish the scope of the MOT test?

[Liquid Knight]

wolf1 said:

Liquid Knight said:

Critique aside; I have never been asked to present a V5C when I have taken any vehicle of mine for an MOT.

That's because it is not required. The only thing you need to present for an MOT is the vehicle itself.

Exactly what I said. I have no idea where the critique was coming from.

Wires crossed I guess.

[Liquid Knight]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-1600-T-fastback-Regis...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FREE-TAX-Exempt-ID-VIN-L...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cortina-mk-1-1500-gt-log...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Sereis-3-Bulk...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V5-Log-Book-X-Reg-Jaguar...

[Steffan]

Liquid Knight said:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-1600-T-fastback-Regis...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FREE-TAX-Exempt-ID-VIN-L...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/cortina-mk-1-1500-gt-log...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-Sereis-3-Bulk...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/V5-Log-Book-X-Reg-Jaguar...

Oh! deare Me. Obviously a growing nuance. The Internet sites ought to be weeding such unawful frauds out. But they are obviousy not doing so! Despite your efforts and the efforts of others.

It does appear to be a growing problem as I suspected by the number of supposed kit cars I have seen being passed off as a Dutton, or some such false representation. A growing problem indeed!

[Liquid Knight]

There are a few selling pages on Facebook with things like this coming up. I report them to the page admins and they're usually petty quick to take them down.

People aren't afraid of using their own profiles to do this now. So a fair few screen grabs have been forwarded to...

https://navcis.police.uk/