Auto Express tyre test issue! Goodyear wins :D

Auto Express tyre test issue! Goodyear wins :D

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drivin_me_nuts

17,949 posts

210 months

Thursday 8th September 2011
quotequote all
mmm-five said:
Sukh13 said:
Except that you pay more than the 3% difference in performance for the top of the list tyres?
Would you choose:
  • Price A for a surgeon with a 97% success rate, or
  • Price B (2 x Price A) for a surgeon with a 100% success rate?
Your analogy is slightly worrysome if you feel that extra 3% gives you 10% more opportunities to drive on the 'limit'.

jon-

Original Poster:

16,497 posts

215 months

Thursday 8th September 2011
quotequote all
drivin_me_nuts said:
mmm-five said:
Sukh13 said:
Except that you pay more than the 3% difference in performance for the top of the list tyres?
Would you choose:
  • Price A for a surgeon with a 97% success rate, or
  • Price B (2 x Price A) for a surgeon with a 100% success rate?
Your analogy is slightly worrysome if you feel that extra 3% gives you 10% more opportunities to drive on the 'limit'.
The 3% is overall. In the real world there's much more in it/

Wet braking:

1st Pirelli - 100%
10th Apollo - 78.5%

Curved aquaplaning:
1st Michelin - 100%
10th Hankook - 69.3%



drivin_me_nuts

17,949 posts

210 months

Thursday 8th September 2011
quotequote all
Crikey. That is a rather sobering set of differences.

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Thursday 8th September 2011
quotequote all
jon- said:
The 3% is overall. In the real world there's much more in it/

Wet braking:

1st Pirelli - 100%
10th Apollo - 78.5%

Curved aquaplaning:
1st Michelin - 100%
10th Hankook - 69.3%
Tis why I only use Michelin tyres. Super hard wearing excellent wet stopping distance and very good dry, best cornering in wet grip.

Frankly where am I most likely to have issues dry or wet? Wet corner well you need the best tyre possible.
Ice and snow clearly all of these tyres are useless.

Worst in the group test to the best is very sobering... Imagine the cheap budget range which is much worse than the worst on this sample... A good tyre really can save your life seems crazy to cut back in this area. Also it must be said running a top quality tyre down to 1.6mm is crazy too - u for one wish in the UK min tread would be 3mm the difference in stopping distance below this increases dramatically add in wet... And live in the UK and considering below 2mm your mad a puddle would be deeper than that at least with 3mm you have a chance.

So tread depth is number 1 priority in wet uk driving then of course upgrade the tyre and reduce stopping distance/which is a performance increase.

Fox-

13,228 posts

245 months

Thursday 8th September 2011
quotequote all
Welshbeef said:
Tis why I only use Michelin tyres. Super hard wearing excellent wet stopping distance and very good dry, best cornering in wet grip.
Would they been the same Michelin Tyres that in Pilot Sport form always brought up the rear of previous performance tyre tests in the wet?

VeeFour

3,339 posts

161 months

Thursday 8th September 2011
quotequote all
jatinder said:
Great website OP, saw it last year, used it as proof to show my father that P6000 were crap!
As usual, though, there are a disproportionate number of tools with 'drama queen' stories of understeering at 2mph on slightly damp roads or how they 'saved the car with a dab of oppo' making comments.

Which kind if renders the whole site pointless, unless you're willing to filter out the largely pointless overly dramatic posts.

I absolutely refuse to jump on the P6000s should be made illegal bandwagon, so am unlikely to take many other comments on that site seriously.

jon-

Original Poster:

16,497 posts

215 months

Thursday 8th September 2011
quotequote all
VeeFour said:
As usual, though, there are a disproportionate number of tools with 'drama queen' stories of understeering at 2mph on slightly damp roads or how they 'saved the car with a dab of oppo' making comments.

Which kind if renders the whole site pointless, unless you're willing to filter out the largely pointless overly dramatic posts.

I absolutely refuse to jump on the P6000s should be made illegal bandwagon, so am unlikely to take many other comments on that site seriously.
You should see the stuff that gets deleted hehe

HellDiver

5,708 posts

181 months

Friday 9th September 2011
quotequote all
Ah, the infamous P6000.

I'm just thinking about the horrid P6000 that were factory fit on my Corsa. They were decent in the dry. They worked OK in snow. But on damp roads they were bad. No other word for them. Totally unpredictable.

Never really like Michelin tyres, never felt they were worth the extra. Some of their OEM tyres are woeful too - I remember skidding for 200m on a on damp city street, that was on 4 year old Energy MXV4 tyres OE fitted to my Mk4 Astra. Immediately drove round to the tyre place and had a set of Uniroyals fitted, despite the Michelins having 6mm of tread on them.

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Friday 9th September 2011
quotequote all
UHP tyre tests are all good and well, but if - like me - you happen to own a high performance car that is old enough not to be saddled with 19" shizzlemywhizzle wheels wrapped in 35 profile rubber bands, you'd be elated to be able to choose just about any of the contenders.

Instead you have to make do with either antique designs that the tyre manufactuers happen to have left in a corner of their Outer Mongolia, or their current 'touring' tyre designed for the HaiTai WhiteGoods 1.6L (with a scintillating 109 hp). That, or you can ruin your car with big aftermarket wheels that the suspension never was meant to work with. grumpy

emicen

8,558 posts

217 months

Friday 9th September 2011
quotequote all
Fox- said:
Welshbeef said:
Tis why I only use Michelin tyres. Super hard wearing excellent wet stopping distance and very good dry, best cornering in wet grip.
Would they been the same Michelin Tyres that in Pilot Sport form always brought up the rear of previous performance tyre tests in the wet?
Quite.

The Pilot Sport 2s that were fitted on the front of my BMW were no more grippy than the current Kumho KU31s nor did they wear better. (Incidentally the Potenza RE040s fitted to the rear, another hard wearing tyre according to most, wore out in exactly the same 24k miles as the Kumho replacements and were far more prone to wheel spin in greasy conditions)

They did however crash through potholes and tramline far better, for only double the price as well.

On the perenial P6000 debate, they worked well enough on a 1.2 Corsa C hire car I once had yet on my mk4 Golf they were utterly horrendous. But they wear very well and have heehaw rolling resistance so fleet managers will always have a warm place in their heart for them hehe

jon-

Original Poster:

16,497 posts

215 months

Friday 9th September 2011
quotequote all
The issue with the P6000s is the amount of OE variations, all with slightly different compound and constructions.

While a few seem to work quite well (Jag sizes), most of the others seem to be rubbish.

jatinder

1,667 posts

212 months

Friday 9th September 2011
quotequote all
jon- said:
The issue with the P6000s is the amount of OE variations, all with slightly different compound and constructions.

While a few seem to work quite well (Jag sizes), most of the others seem to be rubbish.
My dad used to put them on his clio, his reasoning that they lasted quite well. Changed to firestone something or the other, much better more grip and feel.

CO2000

3,177 posts

208 months

Friday 9th September 2011
quotequote all
The P6000 thing reminds me of about 15-20 years ago and it was Avon Turbo Speed that were known as Avon Turbo Slips, they had a very bad reputation.

Balmoral Green

40,660 posts

247 months

Wednesday 9th November 2011
quotequote all
muffinmenace said:
I've got Eagle F1 A1's on the front of my STD at the moment, coming from Michelin PS2's I've noticed a massive increase in road noise, reduced economy, poor turn in and I feel they lack in communication department
HellDiver said:
One of the fleet Superbs has just had a pair of F1-A2 fitted on the front, replacing the F1-A. I must say, the squidgyness around centre on the motorway has gone, a big problem with the F1-A in my opinion.
I have the F1 A1's and don't like them for the same reasons, they're ready for changing now, looks like they have addressed these issues with the F1 A2's. I had written them off but will still consider them now, although Vredestein Centos are looking good at a much cheaper price (£50 a corner less) for my car.

I have a funny size and struggle to find choice though, 255/45x18 103Y extra load.

900T-R

20,404 posts

256 months

Thursday 10th November 2011
quotequote all
Balmoral Green said:
255/45x18 103Y extra load.
Well I never... hehe

Dog Star

16,079 posts

167 months

Thursday 10th November 2011
quotequote all
CO2000 said:
The P6000 thing reminds me of about 15-20 years ago and it was Avon Turbo Speed that were known as Avon Turbo Slips, they had a very bad reputation.
And not forgetting the famous Avon Deathmasters fitted to motorbikes back in the '60s. Nobody I have ever met doesn't call them this.

On the subject of the wet vs dry tyre tests - living in the UK I'll give almost all of my weighting to wet performance. For a start it is almost always raining frown and the other point is that you might very often see a tyre review that says "great dry performance but dreadful in the wet", however you never see a tyre that is brilliant in the wet and crap in the dry.