RE: New 300bhp 1.8 For Alfa Romeo

[anonymous-user]

doogz said:

I don't quite follow. Are you insinuating it can't be reliable with those basic stats?

300bhp from 1.8 litres is very highly strung, I imagine it'll be very particular about maintenance but all the same I wouldn't expect it to manage high mileages. Reliable while it lasts, maybe, but how long will it last?

[GroundEffect]

Just wish they'd chosen to do a 6 cylinder (I know, a 6 cylinder turbo-charged engine is less efficient but still).

[Mr Whippy]

Turbo lag and a 4 banger sound.

How much more inefficient is it to at least have it as a 5 pot or a 6 pot, to make it sound a bit more interesting?!

Dave

[Adrian W]

doogz said:

Adrian W said:

And I suppose it will have a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty, who's kidding who, it's PR bull.

Think about it 300bhp from an 1800, with reliability

I don't quite follow. Are you insinuating it can't be reliable with those basic stats?

Tell me another road car manufacturer that has even got close?

[ZesPak]

Chunkychucky said:

If this went in the 4C with around 300bhp and the proposed ~850kg kerb weight, this would absolutely fly. Then the only thing to do would be to get rid of the mugh-maligned DNA system and fit a decent manual gearbox! Although a DSG subsitute would maybe be bearable.

That would result in a supercar-like 350bhp/tonne.
For reference, a new M3 has about 250, a 458 about 400.

Still don't believe they'll be able to deliver the promised weight though. If they do, it'll be on my shopping list in the very near future.

[utgjon]

Rawwr said:

That peaky 4-pots can't have character or soul or something. You know, the usual shet.

True, but the 2 litre twinspark is quite characterful and sonorous in my (slightly biased) opinion.


As for Chrysler underpinnings, wasn't the Guilietta chassis meant to underpin the new Chrysler models, ergo the Giulia will be based on the Giulietta chassis? And from what i hear, the Guilietta is fairly decent?

[GroundEffect]

300BHP from a 1.8 is only 167BHP/litre. Evos have been getting 180-200BHP/litre for a while now.

[Adrian W]

doogz said:

Adrian W said:

doogz said:

Adrian W said:

And I suppose it will have a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty, who's kidding who, it's PR bull.

Think about it 300bhp from an 1800, with reliability

I don't quite follow. Are you insinuating it can't be reliable with those basic stats?

Tell me another road car manufacturer that has even got close?

Like i've just posted, Subaru. Or Mitsubishi.

Was thinking about that as you posted, the Evo's and minis don't have a great reliability record, I don't know anything about the Subaru, Lets see what they come up with,

[ZesPak]

GroundEffect said:

300BHP from a 1.8 is only 167BHP/litre. Evos have been getting 180-200BHP/litre for a while now.

Yes, but this is done to keep fuel consumption low, EVOs have done this to keep the displacement at 2L.
I don't think an FQ400 can try and go for the euro 6 norm

As an aside, Euro 6 in short:
Euro 6 01/09/2014:
CO : <1g/km, <100g/100km
NOX : <60gm/km
HC: <100mg/km

Edited by ZesPak on Tuesday 4th October 13:23

[MX7]

doogz said:

MX7 said:

Adrian W said:

And I suppose it will have a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty, who's kidding who, it's PR bull.

Think about it 300bhp from an 1800, with reliability

I tend to agree. It wouldn't surprise me if it's nearer 200bhp by the time it comes to fruition.

Why? MINI knock more than 200bhp from the 1.6T, and Subaru have been making 300bhp reliably from a 2.0 for what, 20 years now? Why is 300bhp from a modern 1.8T hard to believe?

The MINI only marginally developes over 200bhp, and you're talking another 100bhp from an additional 200cc.

I know little about Subaru, but I expect that's one of the more expensive variants, and I'm not sure Alfa have that market in mind.

[jbi]

300c is an excellent base starting point for the new Alfa, however I would want something displacing a fair bit more than 1.8 litres for that power

Edited by jbi on Tuesday 4th October 13:29

[Johnboy Mac]

300bhp from even a modern 1.8 turbo, not interested no matter who makes it.

Edited by Johnboy Mac on Tuesday 4th October 13:31

[Adrian W]

MX7 said:

doogz said:

MX7 said:

Adrian W said:

And I suppose it will have a 5 year 100,000 mile warranty, who's kidding who, it's PR bull.

Think about it 300bhp from an 1800, with reliability

I tend to agree. It wouldn't surprise me if it's nearer 200bhp by the time it comes to fruition.

Why? MINI knock more than 200bhp from the 1.6T, and Subaru have been making 300bhp reliably from a 2.0 for what, 20 years now? Why is 300bhp from a modern 1.8T hard to believe?

The MINI only marginally developes over 200bhp, and you're talking another 100bhp from an additional 200cc.

I know little about Subaru, but I expect that's one of the more expensive variants, and I'm not sure Alfa have that market in mind.

I drive a 200bhp per litre car, it's not my first choice when going down the shops, as I said the mini's go bang

[Johnboy Mac]

jbi said:

300c is an excellent base starting point for the new Alfa

Maybe and if so even more of a reasson to have V6 in it, no?

[squirrelz]

Isn't the next RS Focus 300bhp from 2 litres? That's only 200cc more.

[Chunkychucky]

GroundEffect said:

300BHP from a 1.8 is only 167BHP/litre. Evos have been getting 180-200BHP/litre for a while now.

Evos have to be serviced every 5000 miles, and I *believe* rebuilt every 50,000 miles, but have never owned one so not sure if that rebuild figure is just a rumour. I would love it if they came through with the headline figure and a modicum of reliability (and the engine had some character/revviness!), but like many on here I am slightly sceptical now having heard all points of view..

[jbi]

squirrelz said:

Isn't the next RS Focus 300bhp from 2 litres? That's only 200cc more.

a hot hatch vs a family saloon?

Totally different driving styles applied.

[RenesisEvo]

dme123 said:

300bhp from 1.8 litres is very highly strung

I'm sure it won't be an issue, but as has been said, service schedules might demand fairly frequent attention - remember the good ol' days of the turbo-F1 era, where 1000bhp/litre was achievable - for about 10 minutes.

[JohnG1]

300bhp from a 1.8 turbo....

The 997.2 GT2 gets 620bhp from 3.6 litres. So just a tiny wee bit more per unit volume. The 3.6 911 engine is legendary.

Will fiat be able to make this work reliably at this power level in a cost driven, accountant managed platform?

[MX7]

squirrelz said:

Isn't the next RS Focus 300bhp from 2 litres? That's only 200cc more.

How much will that cost? The reason I ask is because this engine is supposed to fit in the new 159, which, V6 aside, isn't based on performance, and doesn't have a performance price tag.