RE: New 300bhp 1.8 For Alfa Romeo
Discussion
Another sad sign of what's wrong with Alfa Romeo.....why don't they concentrate on getting rid of some of their long standing basic problems which carry over from model to model? Like 36,000 mile change cambelts - please can we have chains - cambelt tensioners which collapse, keys which collapse and suspension systems which need regular replacements. Too late, Alfa Romeo may realise that their cars, whilst super lookers, need to convince the owner that they should replace their Alfa Romeo with another Alfa Romeo when the time comes. FIAT build cars which have much better build quality so why can't Alfa? If in any doubt have a look at the number of 156s being broken up (destroyed engines?) even though these were supposed to be improvements on the 145/155 cars. 
Doesn't seem that hard to believe to be honest. What they're putting it in, the gearboxes they run and a number of other factors will have as much impact on its reliability as the hp it makes but is it really necessary to have a petrol engine that can make 300hp from a 1.8? Surely its of more benefit to make the car out of egg cartons using a 757cc 3 cylinder running on originia?
Liking the sound of a RWD Alfa though
Liking the sound of a RWD Alfa though
Well Alfa already have a 1.7 4 pot turbo that makes 230bhp, audi sold a 1.8 20v turbo that ran 240bhp back in 2004/5 (TTQS) and the vag KO4 1.8T can run 280bhp with a remap and other additions (FMIC, DP)and over 300bhp using hybrid turbos or larger GT28/30 varients so 300bhp from a modern 1.8T shouldnt be hard at all. The newer VAG 2.0 T run over 300bhp with just a remap and dont suffer reliabilty issues
Kong said:
doogz said:
britsportscars said:
Turbo lag?
What?300hp from a 1.8?
Now there is a recipe for lag, people are mentioning FQ400s and Subarus, but they all lag big time, same goes for the GT2 as someone mentioned. Lag appears at the 140hp/l mark.
They have twin scroll variable geometry turbos and multiair on their side, but even then you can't defy physics can you?
But then again you could always say that the lag adds 'personality' to the engine.
It'll be an Italian car that has 'character'.
Now there is a recipe for lag, people are mentioning FQ400s and Subarus, but they all lag big time, same goes for the GT2 as someone mentioned. Lag appears at the 140hp/l mark.
They have twin scroll variable geometry turbos and multiair on their side, but even then you can't defy physics can you?
But then again you could always say that the lag adds 'personality' to the engine.
It'll be an Italian car that has 'character'.
gaz9185 said:
Another sad sign of what's wrong with Alfa Romeo.....why don't they concentrate on getting rid of some of their long standing basic problems which carry over from model to model? Like 36,000 mile change cambelts - please can we have chains - cambelt tensioners which collapse, keys which collapse and suspension systems which need regular replacements. Too late, Alfa Romeo may realise that their cars, whilst super lookers, need to convince the owner that they should replace their Alfa Romeo with another Alfa Romeo when the time comes. FIAT build cars which have much better build quality so why can't Alfa? If in any doubt have a look at the number of 156s being broken up (destroyed engines?) even though these were supposed to be improvements on the 145/155 cars.
Tbh they started producing the 156 in 1997, their current (even outgoing!) model is the 159, which has been proven to be very reliable and certainly doesn't need a new cambelt every 36k miles.MrQuick said:
300hp from a 1.8?
Now there is a recipe for lag, people are mentioning FQ400s and Subarus, but they all lag big time, same goes for the GT2 as someone mentioned. Lag appears at the 140hp/l mark.
They have twin scroll variable geometry turbos and multiair on their side, but even then you can't defy physics can you?
But then again you could always say that the lag adds 'personality' to the engine.
It'll be an Italian car that has 'character'.
Depends on what you define as laggy. Some people find anything turbocharged "laggy", but I have driven very laggy cars, and recent evos and subarus are not "laggy" to me.Now there is a recipe for lag, people are mentioning FQ400s and Subarus, but they all lag big time, same goes for the GT2 as someone mentioned. Lag appears at the 140hp/l mark.
They have twin scroll variable geometry turbos and multiair on their side, but even then you can't defy physics can you?
But then again you could always say that the lag adds 'personality' to the engine.
It'll be an Italian car that has 'character'.
squirrelz said:
Just pointing out the RS Focus, as so many people seem to be saying 300bhp from a 1.8 is insane. Think I heard that the next Astra VXR will be 300bhp from 2.0 too.
(corrected my incorrect maths...)
300bhp no doubt is far from insane, considering Alfa will be using Fiat's mutiair system. So, getting that sort of power is not the issue, the issue for myself and I suspect some others is the build quality of the engines i.e. life expectancy without unforeseen major costs, like the engine going bang. After all there is only so much Alfa can charge for the replacement model of the 159 and if that's the case there is only so much Alfa/Fiat can spend on producing such an engine as efficient as it maybe. (corrected my incorrect maths...)
As for the Focus RS, it's different car for a different market and still has an extra 200cc, and you know what they say about displacement.
Edited by Johnboy Mac on Tuesday 4th October 14:14
MrQuick said:
300hp from a 1.8?
Now there is a recipe for lag, people are mentioning FQ400s and Subarus, but they all lag big time, same goes for the GT2 as someone mentioned. Lag appears at the 140hp/l mark.
They have twin scroll variable geometry turbos and multiair on their side, but even then you can't defy physics can you?
But then again you could always say that the lag adds 'personality' to the engine.
It'll be an Italian car that has 'character'.
3 words..Now there is a recipe for lag, people are mentioning FQ400s and Subarus, but they all lag big time, same goes for the GT2 as someone mentioned. Lag appears at the 140hp/l mark.
They have twin scroll variable geometry turbos and multiair on their side, but even then you can't defy physics can you?
But then again you could always say that the lag adds 'personality' to the engine.
It'll be an Italian car that has 'character'.
Boost
Threshold
Johnboy Mac said:
300bhp no doubt is from from insane, considering Alfa will be using Fiat's mutiair system. So, getting that sort of power is not the issue, the issue for myself and I suspect some others is the build quality of the engines i.e. life expectancy without unforeseen major costs, like the engine going bang. After all there is only so much Alfa can charge for the replacement model of the 159 and if that's the case there is only so much Alfa/Fiat can spend on producing such an engine as efficient as it maybe.
As for the Focus RS, it's different car for a different market and still has an extra 200cc, and you know what they say about displacement.
The (current) Focus RS is 2500cc, so 700cc more.As for the Focus RS, it's different car for a different market and still has an extra 200cc, and you know what they say about displacement.
gaz9185 said:
If in any doubt have a look at the number of 156s being broken up (destroyed engines?) even though these were supposed to be improvements on the 145/155 cars.
It has been proven in many arguments over the years that the Alfa 155 is the greatest front wheel drive car Alfa Romeo has and probably will ever make. 300bhp out of a 1.8 turbo should be easy. Just de-tune a 450bhp RS200 from the 80's.
Now the 4C is has Lotus in it's crosshairs (if it gets built) and Lotus have an Evora WRC prototype ready for testing a 4C-WRC could (if there is a God) happen. Mr Whippy said:
Turbo lag and a 4 banger sound.
How much more inefficient is it to at least have it as a 5 pot or a 6 pot, to make it sound a bit more interesting?!
Dave
in addition - if efficiency was the reason for reducing cylinders and going FI, why haven't more n/a 4cyls become turbo 3's or 2's?How much more inefficient is it to at least have it as a 5 pot or a 6 pot, to make it sound a bit more interesting?!
Dave
Reducing unit costs by only having one block is also pretty apparent, I suspect (also, I guess there might not be the money to develop new tech at the lower end of the market, which is where all the n/a 4cyls are?).
Sounds cool - The usual troop of naysayers are out, but V8s and up are dead now for mainstream, it's all about emmisions and economy now and they can't achieve that.
Rather than moan about the fact it's not an engine that 95% of the car buying public wouldn't touch with a bargepole, why not rejoice that the average saloon will have 300 BHP in five years time?
M
Rather than moan about the fact it's not an engine that 95% of the car buying public wouldn't touch with a bargepole, why not rejoice that the average saloon will have 300 BHP in five years time?
M
marcosgt said:
Sounds cool - The usual troop of naysayers are out, but V8s and up are dead now for mainstream, it's all about emmisions and economy now and they can't achieve that.
Rather than moan about the fact it's not an engine that 95% of the car buying public wouldn't touch with a bargepole, why not rejoice that the average saloon will have 300 BHP in five years time?
M
Rather than moan about the fact it's not an engine that 95% of the car buying public wouldn't touch with a bargepole, why not rejoice that the average saloon will have 300 BHP in five years time?
M
Spot on. I appreciate the charm of big stonking V8's or high revving V10's, but they're not long for this world due to inefficiency. Just like the steam engine, they will be phased out.
MX7 said:
I tend to agree. It wouldn't surprise me if it's nearer 200bhp by the time it comes to fruition.
There is already the 180bhp 1.4 Multi air fiat engine in the Abarth Grande Punto250-300 Bhp would be ok I think, although will be running high boost, think on the original SS Grandes they run 1.3-1.5 Bar
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