RE: New Ginetta G60 Road Car Revealed
Discussion
kambites said:
Interesting question re DBW. The electronics/programming are trivial and servo actuation is pretty damned quick too, so there is absolutely no reason that a DBW throttle has to lag perceptibly. Why they all do, I've never really understood.
My uneducated guess would be that the lag is not a side-effect of the DBW, it's there for a reason, probably emissions related, and the DBW enables it rather than causes it.otolith said:
kambites said:
Interesting question re DBW. The electronics/programming are trivial and servo actuation is pretty damned quick too, so there is absolutely no reason that a DBW throttle has to lag perceptibly. Why they all do, I've never really understood.
My uneducated guess would be that the lag is not a side-effect of the DBW, it's there for a reason, probably emissions related, and the DBW enables it rather than causes it.otolith said:
kambites said:
Interesting question re DBW. The electronics/programming are trivial and servo actuation is pretty damned quick too, so there is absolutely no reason that a DBW throttle has to lag perceptibly. Why they all do, I've never really understood.
My uneducated guess would be that the lag is not a side-effect of the DBW, it's there for a reason, probably emissions related, and the DBW enables it rather than causes it.kambites said:
Interesting question re DBW. The electronics/programming are trivial and servo actuation is pretty damned quick too, so there is absolutely no reason that a DBW throttle has to lag perceptibly. Why they all do, I've never really understood.
most race cars (factory built gt3's etc.) have drive by wire now. so if its free enough from lag for them its good enough for a road car.wildman0609 said:
kambites said:
Interesting question re DBW. The electronics/programming are trivial and servo actuation is pretty damned quick too, so there is absolutely no reason that a DBW throttle has to lag perceptibly. Why they all do, I've never really understood.
most race cars (factory built gt3's etc.) have drive by wire now. so if its free enough from lag for them its good enough for a road car.I genuinly think the 0-60 time is supposed to be 3.9, a few other websites have stated the 0-60 is under 4 seconds.
Everything just makes more sence with that time, thats a reasonable time considering the Power to Weight, and makes the price more acceptable.
And to people saying its being built in a shed, have you actually looked at Ginettas web site? they have a 75,000 Sq Ft factory
Everything just makes more sence with that time, thats a reasonable time considering the Power to Weight, and makes the price more acceptable.
And to people saying its being built in a shed, have you actually looked at Ginettas web site? they have a 75,000 Sq Ft factory
KDIcarmad said:
At this price a lot of better know cars offer similar performance. I mean what does the name Ginetta mean to most people. Just the name Ferrari, Porsche, Lotus or Jaguar have means for most people. I hope Ginetta does well with a car like maybe not.
I hardly think 'most people' will be buying this type of car.rhinochopig said:
Race cars are often last in the queue when it comes to driveability consideration.
rubbish. any factory race car which is aimed to sell to customers (gentlemen drivers, i said gt3's in my above post) is aimed to make it as easy to drive as possible otherwise they wouldn't sell any and it'd all be a waste of time. porsche sell the highest number of customer race cars out of all the manufacturers and they are all notoriously easy to drive. especially the 24hr cars.
btw i design race cars for a living at an OEM, i know how high up the list driveability is.
kambites said:
Gary C said:
Really nice.
First Ginetta I've actually liked the look of.
But 68K, too expensive for me.
This at 25k would be nice though.
First Ginetta I've actually liked the look of.
But 68K, too expensive for me.
This at 25k would be nice though.
And I'll take a Mclaren F1 for 25 quid please. 
I know it takes a lost of money to develop and approve a new car, but if someone developed a simple, light weight gizmo free good looking car that drove well could it not be done using existing mass market engines, steering, suspension components and be a winner, or is the market just not there.
Its not as if it needs to be on the cutting edge of technology (by definition).
Gary C said:
You can't deny that it would be a bargin at 25K But 68K.
I know it takes a lost of money to develop and approve a new car, but if someone developed a simple, light weight gizmo free good looking car that drove well could it not be done using existing mass market engines, steering, suspension components and be a winner, or is the market just not there.
Its not as if it needs to be on the cutting edge of technology (by definition).
Any number of cars at the annual Stoneleigh Kit Car Show meet your criteria (apart from the "good-looking" bit for many I know it takes a lost of money to develop and approve a new car, but if someone developed a simple, light weight gizmo free good looking car that drove well could it not be done using existing mass market engines, steering, suspension components and be a winner, or is the market just not there.
Its not as if it needs to be on the cutting edge of technology (by definition).
) and yet you rarely see them on the roads.People seem to want kit car prices but production car quality.
Gary C said:
You can't deny that it would be a bargin at 25K But 68K.
I know it takes a lost of money to develop and approve a new car, but if someone developed a simple, light weight gizmo free good looking car that drove well could it not be done using existing mass market engines, steering, suspension components and be a winner, or is the market just not there.
Its not as if it needs to be on the cutting edge of technology (by definition).
Ah but, can I suggest that you start with this car in your mind, fully built and then take it apart and place every component put neatly in front you. I know it takes a lost of money to develop and approve a new car, but if someone developed a simple, light weight gizmo free good looking car that drove well could it not be done using existing mass market engines, steering, suspension components and be a winner, or is the market just not there.
Its not as if it needs to be on the cutting edge of technology (by definition).
Then, price up every single one of those components.
Next, envisage how much space you would need to build say 4 a week. Taking into account where the correct workforce and delivery routes are in the UK work put what size space and where you will need it and then have a look to see how much this will cost you.
Then, to build 4 cars a week and assuming 7 hour working days, calculate how many staff you will need and what you will need to pay them. Don't forget HR, marketing, sales and lawyers and accounting costs.
Don't forget to add a margin that not only generates a unit profit that makes it worth while but also includes a safety margin as well and debt funding as well as cash reserve etc etc.
And all of this is just crude basics.
No one who ever thinks it through logically ever continues to talk about UK, small volume, factory built cars prices being too high but in fact too low.
If people want cheap cars then buy secondhand, buy kits or buy mass produced boxes.
Gary C said:
You can't deny that it would be a bargin at 25K But 68K.
I know it takes a lost of money to develop and approve a new car, but if someone developed a simple, light weight gizmo free good looking car that drove well could it not be done using existing mass market engines, steering, suspension components and be a winner, or is the market just not there.
Its not as if it needs to be on the cutting edge of technology (by definition).
Ah but, can I suggest that you start with this car in your mind, fully built and then take it apart and place every component put neatly in front you. I know it takes a lost of money to develop and approve a new car, but if someone developed a simple, light weight gizmo free good looking car that drove well could it not be done using existing mass market engines, steering, suspension components and be a winner, or is the market just not there.
Its not as if it needs to be on the cutting edge of technology (by definition).
Then, price up every single one of those components.
Next, envisage how much space you would need to build say 4 a week. Taking into account where the correct workforce and delivery routes are in the UK work put what size space and where you will need it and then have a look to see how much this will cost you.
Then, to build 4 cars a week and assuming 7 hour working days, calculate how many staff you will need and what you will need to pay them. Don't forget HR, marketing, sales and lawyers and accounting costs.
Don't forget to add a margin that not only generates a unit profit that makes it worth while but also includes a safety margin as well and debt funding as well as cash reserve etc etc.
And all of this is just crude basics.
No one who ever thinks it through logically ever continues to talk about UK, small volume, factory built cars prices being too high but in fact too low.
If people want cheap cars then buy secondhand, buy kits or buy mass produced boxes.
suffolk009 said:
I really, really want to like this car.
But I wasn't fond of the scoops in the doors ten years ago, and they haven't improved with age.
Scoopy doors are coming back (just after Lotus decide the next Elise won't have them But I wasn't fond of the scoops in the doors ten years ago, and they haven't improved with age.
)http://i.autoblog.com/photos/porsche-boxster-s-spy...
Gary C said:
You can't deny that it would be a bargin at 25K But 68K.
I know it takes a lost of money to develop and approve a new car, but if someone developed a simple, light weight gizmo free good looking car that drove well could it not be done using existing mass market engines, steering, suspension components and be a winner, or is the market just not there.
Its not as if it needs to be on the cutting edge of technology (by definition).
Is that not exactly what the G40R is? I know it takes a lost of money to develop and approve a new car, but if someone developed a simple, light weight gizmo free good looking car that drove well could it not be done using existing mass market engines, steering, suspension components and be a winner, or is the market just not there.
Its not as if it needs to be on the cutting edge of technology (by definition).
otolith said:
Scoopy doors are coming back (just after Lotus decide the next Elise won't have them )
http://i.autoblog.com/photos/porsche-boxster-s-spy...
You'd think they could smoothly incorporate the door handle into the top edge of the scoop rather than the one that looks stuck on. )http://i.autoblog.com/photos/porsche-boxster-s-spy...
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