RE: New Ginetta G60 Road Car Revealed
Discussion
ewenm said:
otolith said:
Scoopy doors are coming back (just after Lotus decide the next Elise won't have them 
)
http://i.autoblog.com/photos/porsche-boxster-s-spy...
You'd think they could smoothly incorporate the door handle into the top edge of the scoop rather than the one that looks stuck on. )http://i.autoblog.com/photos/porsche-boxster-s-spy...
DonkeyApple said:
Ah but, can I suggest that you start with this car in your mind, fully built and then take it apart and place every component put neatly in front you.
Then, price up every single one of those components.
Next, envisage how much space you would need to build say 4 a week. Taking into account where the correct workforce and delivery routes are in the UK work put what size space and where you will need it and then have a look to see how much this will cost you.
Then, to build 4 cars a week and assuming 7 hour working days, calculate how many staff you will need and what you will need to pay them. Don't forget HR, marketing, sales and lawyers and accounting costs.
Don't forget to add a margin that not only generates a unit profit that makes it worth while but also includes a safety margin as well and debt funding as well as cash reserve etc etc.
And all of this is just crude basics.
No one who ever thinks it through logically ever continues to talk about UK, small volume, factory built cars prices being too high but in fact too low.
If people want cheap cars then buy secondhand, buy kits or buy mass produced boxes.
Not trying to start an argument about this car. I can't deny that this car needs to be 68K and that there is probably a market (however small), but for me its way too expensive. My point was, why dont they make a car that looks this good, drives like a sports car should, but for around 25K, and it looks like they do !Then, price up every single one of those components.
Next, envisage how much space you would need to build say 4 a week. Taking into account where the correct workforce and delivery routes are in the UK work put what size space and where you will need it and then have a look to see how much this will cost you.
Then, to build 4 cars a week and assuming 7 hour working days, calculate how many staff you will need and what you will need to pay them. Don't forget HR, marketing, sales and lawyers and accounting costs.
Don't forget to add a margin that not only generates a unit profit that makes it worth while but also includes a safety margin as well and debt funding as well as cash reserve etc etc.
And all of this is just crude basics.
No one who ever thinks it through logically ever continues to talk about UK, small volume, factory built cars prices being too high but in fact too low.
If people want cheap cars then buy secondhand, buy kits or buy mass produced boxes.
The G40R does look to be exactly the car I mean and I suppose it actualy proves my point !
You can
Saw one of these at Le Mans last year, we had a good look at it. I thought it looked stunning, however upon closer inspection the overall quality of the body details and shut lines were very poor.
A real shame, but then a small volume car manufacturer would always struggle to compete against the larger boys in that area.
It could have been a development car of course, I would love to see another one in the flesh.
A real shame, but then a small volume car manufacturer would always struggle to compete against the larger boys in that area.
It could have been a development car of course, I would love to see another one in the flesh.
k-ink said:
[quote=cmoose, over 2 years ago]
Preaching to the converted here, old boy. The 996 was a very, very clever rethinking of the original 911 if you ask me. And very true to the ethos of the original, to boot - a designer's design. The 997 was very much a back-pedalling, less subtle and more easily accessible effort that pleased relatively undiscerning punters. God, that sounds patronising.
Every designer at our large design consultants hated the 996 upon its arrival. We were used to seeing the bosses silver 993 parked outside. Then one day it was replaced by the hunched back, huge, slab sided, melted headlamp, dullard that is the 996. Preaching to the converted here, old boy. The 996 was a very, very clever rethinking of the original 911 if you ask me. And very true to the ethos of the original, to boot - a designer's design. The 997 was very much a back-pedalling, less subtle and more easily accessible effort that pleased relatively undiscerning punters. God, that sounds patronising.
So it does away with TCS, ABS and PAS but has SN, BT and Touchscreen entertainment.... Is was all looking lovely and puritan till i got to that. Still don't like the rear lights or the vents that look like an afterthought on the C-pillar but otherwise a great looking package. Looks superb from the side and front (is it just me or the camera angle is there a morgan cross eye thing going on with where the projector headlights are aiming).
I like the Ginetta brand and if i could i would be happy to plump up the cash for one. Give it to me in black or blue though please. Or maybe grey.
I like the Ginetta brand and if i could i would be happy to plump up the cash for one. Give it to me in black or blue though please. Or maybe grey.
lestiq said:
Saw one of these at Le Mans last year, we had a good look at it. I thought it looked stunning, however upon closer inspection the overall quality of the body details and shut lines were very poor.
A real shame, but then a small volume car manufacturer would always struggle to compete against the larger boys in that area.
It could have been a development car of course, I would love to see another one in the flesh.
If you mean Le Mans 2012 then it definitely would be a development car, I know that a lot has been done since then but not sure about shut lines - certainly Laurence Tomlinson is pretty keen to get it right in terms of quality and that is likely to include such details.A real shame, but then a small volume car manufacturer would always struggle to compete against the larger boys in that area.
It could have been a development car of course, I would love to see another one in the flesh.
andyps said:
lestiq said:
Saw one of these at Le Mans last year, we had a good look at it. I thought it looked stunning, however upon closer inspection the overall quality of the body details and shut lines were very poor.
A real shame, but then a small volume car manufacturer would always struggle to compete against the larger boys in that area.
It could have been a development car of course, I would love to see another one in the flesh.
If you mean Le Mans 2012 then it definitely would be a development car, I know that a lot has been done since then but not sure about shut lines - certainly Laurence Tomlinson is pretty keen to get it right in terms of quality and that is likely to include such details.A real shame, but then a small volume car manufacturer would always struggle to compete against the larger boys in that area.
It could have been a development car of course, I would love to see another one in the flesh.
andyps said:
lestiq said:
Saw one of these at Le Mans last year, we had a good look at it. I thought it looked stunning, however upon closer inspection the overall quality of the body details and shut lines were very poor.
A real shame, but then a small volume car manufacturer would always struggle to compete against the larger boys in that area.
It could have been a development car of course, I would love to see another one in the flesh.
If you mean Le Mans 2012 then it definitely would be a development car, I know that a lot has been done since then but not sure about shut lines - certainly Laurence Tomlinson is pretty keen to get it right in terms of quality and that is likely to include such details.A real shame, but then a small volume car manufacturer would always struggle to compete against the larger boys in that area.
It could have been a development car of course, I would love to see another one in the flesh.
GTRene said:
This could be nice to Ginetta G80
love the rear and side, the front needs a bit more modeling though.
wow ! Ginetta are taking over from TVR in my little world. Great design, race program, cars with minimal driving aids. I need to work out a way of getting one in my garage. love the rear and side, the front needs a bit more modeling though.
andyps said:
DonkeyApple said:
Does anyone actually believe that yarn though?
I've met Laurence Tomlinson a couple of times and understand a little about his businesses and have no reason to doubt him.If you look in general at the sector in which the LNT Group operates (construction and care homes in the North) then this is an area which has been hit hard by the recession. At the same time, leveraged businesses have also been hit hard.
It took the Group a long time to restructure their debt facility (if like many northern firms in this field they had expanded using cheap debt for a main player like RBS you can imagine that the bank has been extremely unhelpful in regards to debt expansion or even restructuring). At the same time, the construction side has been going through redundancies and a contraction.
Assets have also been sold off, I think about 8 or 9 homes were sold to Sanctuary. I think that represents around a 20% reduction.
Also an issue for the North especially has been the Local Authority cuts. They are paying less for beds.
So, for me, it looks like a business which has had to work very hard since the 'crunch' to restructure finance, downsize, slow growth and with falling revenues from LAs, so a squeeze. It makes me think that there just hasn't been the spare cash to invest into launching what must be expensive road car models, while facing a general economic climate where you know sales in the UK and EU will have very low demand.
So, in all, it strikes me that Ginetta are being sensible and prudent in not investing the large sums into a product which will be hard to sell in the current climate. Which is why I don't openly buy into the 'quality control' story in its entirity.
LNT himself has been pretty open about the issues he had with re-financing - http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/yorkshire/news/4521... - and - http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business/business-n... - not holding back his views on the attitude of the banks. The general business areas LNT work in have not been ideal over recent years but there are plans and now finance in place to grow for the future.
In terms of the cars, Laurence Tomlinson has said that with all the work they have put into the G60 since buying the project it would have been cheaper to start from scratch but he doesn't want to sell it to the general public until it is right - I'm not sure what the current state of customers cars is. He fully understands the quality issues as an ex TVR owner and would have been the owner of TVR had a Russian with lots of money not come along to make an offer Peter Wheeler couldn't refuse - a deal had been done before that happened.
I really hope it works for the road cars, the race series is well established and generating income for Ginetta, although I don't know how profitable it is, but it forms a good basis on which to build a few back to basics road cars.
In terms of the cars, Laurence Tomlinson has said that with all the work they have put into the G60 since buying the project it would have been cheaper to start from scratch but he doesn't want to sell it to the general public until it is right - I'm not sure what the current state of customers cars is. He fully understands the quality issues as an ex TVR owner and would have been the owner of TVR had a Russian with lots of money not come along to make an offer Peter Wheeler couldn't refuse - a deal had been done before that happened.
I really hope it works for the road cars, the race series is well established and generating income for Ginetta, although I don't know how profitable it is, but it forms a good basis on which to build a few back to basics road cars.
andyps said:
LNT himself has been pretty open about the issues he had with re-financing - http://www.thebusinessdesk.com/yorkshire/news/4521... - and - http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/business/business-n... - not holding back his views on the attitude of the banks. The general business areas LNT work in have not been ideal over recent years but there are plans and now finance in place to grow for the future.
In terms of the cars, Laurence Tomlinson has said that with all the work they have put into the G60 since buying the project it would have been cheaper to start from scratch but he doesn't want to sell it to the general public until it is right - I'm not sure what the current state of customers cars is. He fully understands the quality issues as an ex TVR owner and would have been the owner of TVR had a Russian with lots of money not come along to make an offer Peter Wheeler couldn't refuse - a deal had been done before that happened.
I really hope it works for the road cars, the race series is well established and generating income for Ginetta, although I don't know how profitable it is, but it forms a good basis on which to build a few back to basics road cars.
I drove the G60 in it's earlier guise and thought is was superb. A very pretty car but now a design which has been around in 4 different brands for over a decade, or getting close. In face of the 'crunch' ditching the CF in favour of cheaper GRP could have seen much better margins and a lower sales price but that is assuming the old method of CF construction was a labour extensive and costly one. It may not have been.In terms of the cars, Laurence Tomlinson has said that with all the work they have put into the G60 since buying the project it would have been cheaper to start from scratch but he doesn't want to sell it to the general public until it is right - I'm not sure what the current state of customers cars is. He fully understands the quality issues as an ex TVR owner and would have been the owner of TVR had a Russian with lots of money not come along to make an offer Peter Wheeler couldn't refuse - a deal had been done before that happened.
I really hope it works for the road cars, the race series is well established and generating income for Ginetta, although I don't know how profitable it is, but it forms a good basis on which to build a few back to basics road cars.
The G40 is a cracking car. When I was in my 20s I would have jumped at that. I much prefer hard tops and this would have been a serious product against the default caterfields etc. But, it is a cracking product aimed at the single most f
ked demographic in the UK. The one with the lowest wages, largest mortgages, highest insurance costs, crappest future. I think this is why so many manufacturers succumb to heat pile warmers and various other assisted living packages as they know the only people will fun money to lob around are those who are frightened of a harsh winter.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff