E92 335d vs 330d

[Mazdarese]

I'm seriously considering an E92 335d for my next car. 40mpg & 280bhp, a decent spec, and I believe a good steer, it seems hard to beat.

However, browsing the classifieds shows that a 3-year old 335d is often £2000-£3000 more expensive than an equivalent specification 330d. Is that justified? I believe the only difference is that the 335d is twin-turbo and thus a bit more powerful (~40bhp). Oh, and a tailpipe either side rather than twins on the left

So I'm thinking why not just get an E92 330d, and if I want more power then get a remap? Then I saw the 325d, which I believe is still the same engine but with a different tune producing less power?

No matter how hard I try to do less I've been consistently doing 20k miles a year for the last 5 years, and in my current car (Mazda 6 MPS) this has cost me nearly £5000 in fuel alone. That, plus the fact I rarely get to enjoy the car to it's full potential (commuting during the week is ste, always have a passenger at weekends), has made me think it's time to change, and I'd like an Auto.

Any thoughts?

[edo]

Go for the 335d. I had one, and it was a great car. Having said that, the newer 330d isnt far behind. What sort of budget are you thinking? try and get the later LCi (udpated car) with the newer HDD based nav, it is streets ahead in ease of use etc.

There will be lots of idots along shortly talking about re-mapped etc. Please just ignore them.

[Kickstart68]

Hi

Not sure if you are used to petrol or diesel cars. If petrol then see if you can get a long test drive in the diesel to see if you like the way they produce power. Personally I don't, but plenty do.

I did drive a 330d a couple of months ago. A nice car to drive but a bit plasticy on the inside. Engine was good with decent power throughout the rev range. Not sporty though and for fun it wouldn't appeal to me, but for cruising down the motorway it would be pleasant. One car we have is an X Type Jaguar and the BMW diesel engines power curve would suit than nicely, better than the petrol 2.5 V6.

All the best

Keith

[Mazdarese]

Thanks for the replies.

edo said:

Go for the 335d. I had one, and it was a great car. Having said that, the newer 330d isnt far behind. What sort of budget are you thinking? try and get the later LCi (udpated car) with the newer HDD based nav, it is streets ahead in ease of use etc.

There will be lots of idots along shortly talking about re-mapped etc. Please just ignore them.

I'm thinking between £15k-£20k. I've noticed a few of the LCi cars on BMW's Used Car locator, but I think they're out of budget. I just can't see how the difference between the 330d and the 335d is worth that couple of grand..

Kickstart68 said:

Hi

Not sure if you are used to petrol or diesel cars. If petrol then see if you can get a long test drive in the diesel to see if you like the way they produce power. Personally I don't, but plenty do.

I did drive a 330d a couple of months ago. A nice car to drive but a bit plasticy on the inside. Engine was good with decent power throughout the rev range. Not sporty though and for fun it wouldn't appeal to me, but for cruising down the motorway it would be pleasant. One car we have is an X Type Jaguar and the BMW diesel engines power curve would suit than nicely, better than the petrol 2.5 V6.

All the best

Keith

I've had both diesel and petrol cars in the past. Agreed that the power delivery of a standard diesel can be laggy, but I think the modern ones are better. That, and coupled with the 335d being a twin turbo and an automatic gearbox, I think it might work well.

[Kickstart68]

Mazdarese said:

I've had both diesel and petrol cars in the past. Agreed that the power delivery of a standard diesel can be laggy, but I think the modern ones are better. That, and coupled with the 335d being a twin turbo and an automatic gearbox, I think it might work well.

It isn't the lag / lack of throttle response that I don't like (and the 330d I drove certainly had noticeable lag), it is the bias of torque to the bottom end (once the turbo has woken up). I like something where torque increases with rpm rather than something where peak torque is a little above idle and then drops away.

Too many years of bikes and a liking for 2 strokes I am afraid. I like something that rewards me with more umph for using the revs rather than punishes me we less umph.

All the best

Keith

[RobM77]

I've always found diesels to be backwards, so instead of giving a nice smooth crescendo of power with a wall of torque in the middle, they seem to deliver loads of torque early on and then run out of puff. BMW do engineer their diesels to drive more like petrols, but even so the effect is still there.

Regarding the lag, it's important to differentiate between initial throttle lag (the first push of the throttle from 0% to whatever value you desire, and the ensuing delay before the engine responds) and turbo lag, which is the time it takes for the turbo to build up to full boost once you've made a request. In the BMW range, petrols have the former delay (e.g. 0% to 30%), and diesels the latter (e.g. 30% to 70%). Decide which you can live with and which you can't live with. This is why I converted from owning a string of BMW petrols to diesels: ultimately I decided I'd rather live with turbo lag than throttle lag. My reasoning was that the first 20 or 30% throttle is what you use to balance the car after turn-in, and beyond that is normally accelerating in a straight line, where finesse is rarely needed (unless it's wet and your car has more than about 250bhp).

The final thing to look at is the cost of fuel in the car. Bear in mind diesel is more expensive than petrol, and in some of these performance diesels the benefit over the equivalent petrol is fairly marginal. For instance, a 330i should be averaging low to mid 30s and peaking at high 30s for the mpg. Diesel will be higher, but perhaps not high enough once you factor in the extra cost of diesel per litre.

Consider all three of these points. For me, the decision to own a diesel was based mainly on points 1 and 2. I put up with point 1 because I felt very strongly about point 3. The similarity of cost in point 3 and the fact that I could easily afford either option made this decision entirely based on the driving experience.

HTH

[Redmax]

I think my 335d is superb, 105k and still feels like new, but 30mpg is more realistically achieved than 40. I'm currently getting 33mpg on mainly motorway driving.

[RobM77]

Redmax said:

I think my 335d is superb, 105k and still feels like new, but 30mpg is more realistically achieved than 40. I'm currently getting 33mpg on mainly motorway driving.

This is why it's important for the OP to think about my point #3 above. Diesel is about 5% more expensive than petrol per litre, so 30mpg in a diesel is like doing 28.5mpg in a petrol. A look at the PH real world mpg wiki will show you the surprisingly slim difference between diesel and petrol. This depends on the type of driving you're doing of course. I expect for almost everyone diesel will work out cheaper, but it's often not cheap enough if you're not as happy with the way a diesel drives compared with a petrol. Personally, I am, I actually prefer BMW diesels to petrols, but I know plenty of people who think the opposite, so this is a point worth making.

[Jem0911]

Seriously?
No mapped gags yet?
What's happening to this place?

[Kickstart68]

Hi

Price wise add in the higher cost of buying a diesel car. You should also factor in the possible higher resale value of the diesel. Possible higher depreciation on a petrol car might well make them a worse deal when new but a better deal 2nd hand compared to diesel.

Cost of a dual mass flywheel would also worry me.

All the best

Keith

[Mazdarese]

You make some good points, Gents. If the 335d is only going to return low 30's then I might as well have a look at a 335i. I'm going to try and organise a couple of test drives this weekend.

I have never driven a BMW diesel so I might hate it, or I might completely love it.

I'll be back!

[RobM77]

Mazdarese said:

You make some good points, Gents. If the 335d is only going to return low 30's then I might as well have a look at a 335i. I'm going to try and organise a couple of test drives this weekend.

I have never driven a BMW diesel so I might hate it, or I might completely love it.

I'll be back!

Do definitely drive both the 335i and 335d. See my long post above for the reasons why.

[RobM77]

That's a lot more revealing than the scant entries in the mpg wiki. That would make the 335d a sensible financial choice. Still, being a big fan of cars I choose even my daily driver primarily on what it's like to drive, and in that sense for BMW I'll always go for diesels over petrol (unless it's the M3). Best to test drive both

[GestapoWatch]

LOVED my 335d and miss the power like mad (hence why I want a weekend toy now too!).

Agree with trying the 335i - I wish I had as nothing is sweeter than petrol engine power delivery, though the twin turbo in the derv does a brilliant job of trying to mimic this.

[Mazdarese]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That's more like it for the diesel. My current commute is 28 miles motorway, 10 miles a/b roads each day, so if I could average 40mpg on a typical day I'd be very happy.

RobM77 said:

Do definitely drive both the 335i and 335d. See my long post above for the reasons why.

Yep, read that with interest Rob. Thanks.

[Sam.F]

My dad used to have a 335d coupe, in SE spec it had great q-car quality - awesome fun destroying the usual Audis etc on motorway sliproads as it basically looked like a 320i apart from the tailpipes.

Pros - stonking performance, particularly for A-road overtaking, 40mpg at sensible speeds on the motorway.

Cons - not really a sporty drive, I wasn't keen on the driving position.

Bearing that in mind the 335d sounds an ideal car for the OP

[Mazdarese]

Sam.F said:

My dad used to have a 335d coupe, in SE spec it had great q-car quality - awesome fun destroying the usual Audis etc on motorway sliproads as it basically looked like a 320i apart from the tailpipes.

Pros - stonking performance, particularly for A-road overtaking, 40mpg at sensible speeds on the motorway.

Cons - not really a sporty drive, I wasn't keen on the driving position.

Bearing that in mind the 335d sounds an ideal car for the OP

I'm starting to realise that I actually spend 90% of my time behind the wheel commuting rather than driving. My 'sporty driving' consists of a cheeky switch-off of the ESP when exiting damp junctions now and then, and that's it. I can live without that.

[edo]

BMW warranty would be a priority for me.

If you look on the BMW site, there are actually not that many cars with sensible mileage under 20k. (330d and 335d coupe)

[k15tox]

Mazdarese said:

I'm starting to realise that I actually spend 90% of my time behind the wheel commuting rather than driving. My 'sporty driving' consists of a cheeky switch-off of the ESP when exiting damp junctions now and then, and that's it. I can live without that.

You won't be doing much other than spinning the inside wheel

[RobM77]

k15tox said:

Mazdarese said:

I'm starting to realise that I actually spend 90% of my time behind the wheel commuting rather than driving. My 'sporty driving' consists of a cheeky switch-off of the ESP when exiting damp junctions now and then, and that's it. I can live without that.

You won't be doing much other than spinning the inside wheel

That'll depend on the balance of the car at the time, and the differential forces on the... err.. differential! With an open diff it's quite easy to hang the tail out under power if you do the right things. I've held powerslides for over a minute in cars without an LSD (on a circular skid pan of course).