RE: We Want To Build A Car Says BMW M Boss

RE: We Want To Build A Car Says BMW M Boss

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Discussion

thewheelman

2,194 posts

172 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
TheForceV4 said:
marcosgt said:
But isn't he saying that's a ratrace they want to get out of and go back to the 'purity' of the E30 M3 or the original M1?

That's how I interpret it anyway.

M.
Regarding your point on the E30 M3, couldnt you say that is was only regarded as 'pure' as there was nothing on the market at the time to challenge it?
The Merc 190 Cosworth more than challenged it.

Johnboy Mac

2,666 posts

177 months

Monday 24th October 2011
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''The head of product development at BMW M division has told Inside Line that he wants to develop a bespoke car ‘in-house’ as AMG has done with the SLS.

“From an engineering perspective we have the skills and we'd love to do it," said Albert Biermann. "We've discussed it several times but we've never been able to make the business case.''


The above statement does not reflect well on BMW and maybe M Division too imo. One could read so much into that statement & still come to the incorrect conclusion.

Personally, I think BMW should be embarrasssed and no doubt some employees are, by not having a competing car to offer the public like Merc, Audi & Porsche etc. I can't help thinking there is just not enough profit in it for them compared to knocking out M tech spec cars, turbo M cars and 4x4 M's .

Edited by Johnboy Mac on Monday 24th October 17:35

SleeperCell

5,591 posts

241 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
RodMod said:
I think that they should do a M car for the purist, trouble now is anyone (funds providing) can go and buy a 3 series M car with 4 doors and its just not what M is about imho.

Rod.
I think you'll find that is mostly what M has always been about (in road cars anyway) since very shortly after they brought out the M1 (which, if we remember was a miserable sales failure)

Take a volume showroom model, use the ordinary engine with higher power output, add some visual glam, tart up the interior and give the chassis a bit of a workover and you have this.


Not really much different in concept from the modern 335i or 535i M sport. Of course a lot of people think it's rather a good combination and have bought them, but apparently that is a bad thing now because things that are popular are always st.

People seem to have this mistaken idea that the E30 M3 is what M is all about, but actually that is probably the M car that is the odd one out if you look back.

Anyway they do make a car for the purist, it's the 1M. Fun RWD chassis in a small package with a powerful engine, manual gearbox only, relatively affordable. It's basically everything most enthusiasts claim to want all the time. Of course it has it's faults, it doesn't have a bespoke naturally aspirated M engine, it's a bit heavier than cars were 30 years ago, some people don't much like how it looks. But really these are minor criticisms when you consider all the requirements they have to meet these days. Compare to the Audi RS3, there are fridges that look more exciting and it's even more boring to drive than it looks. Of course if you really were a purist you'd fork out a bit more for a Cayman or else go off and buy a Caterham or a well preserved E30 M3, in which case, stop moaning and let your wallet do the talking.

Unlike most people I think M does know what they are doing. They might like to build their own supercar (so does everyone else judging by the supercar concepts that appear almost daily), but it's no good building one if the only people who actually want one are those who wont actually buy one until it becomes a cult car 20 years after production finished.

thewheelman

2,194 posts

172 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
I'm getting pretty bored of the subject of weight being mention each time there's a topic on a BMW M car. In my opinion the E30 M3 is one of the most overrated cars, it was great in its day, but drive one now against even an E46 M3. Power to weight ratios are more important than just having less weight. I'm guessing most people here are of an age when the E30 M3 was doing well in touring cars etc. Take off the rose tinted glasses, & move with the times.

Dagnut

3,515 posts

192 months

Monday 24th October 2011
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SleeperCell said:
People seem to have this mistaken idea that the E30 M3 is what M is all about, but actually that is probably the M car that is the odd one out if you look back.
exactly

sideways sid

1,371 posts

214 months

Monday 24th October 2011
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So a rough translation is that we can expect M to bring one of the myriad of BMW concepts to market with hybrid power by 2015. It will be fun - or a new type of electric fun - and emotive - i.e. horrid per the Bangle-era cars - and priced low enough to turn a profit through volume and probably with innovative financing to limit owners exposure to battery costs etc.

...just a hunch...

Johnboy Mac

2,666 posts

177 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
thewheelman said:
The Merc 190 Cosworth more than challenged it.
I'm biased but you are totally correct. And the 190 was a far better proposition as a rapid road car too.

But with no AMG, Cosworth, RS, or M badge anywhere to be seen on the car it can't be really any good at the end of the day. wink

Edited by Johnboy Mac on Monday 24th October 13:43

thewheelman

2,194 posts

172 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
sideways sid said:
So a rough translation is that we can expect M to bring one of the myriad of BMW concepts to market with hybrid power by 2015. It will be fun - or a new type of electric fun - and emotive - i.e. horrid per the Bangle-era cars - and priced low enough to turn a profit through volume and probably with innovative financing to limit owners exposure to battery costs etc.

...just a hunch...
Another Bangle hater hey. During Bangle's time at BMW he helped them overtake Mercedes as the worlds global leader in premium cars sales. Have a look at all the models he designed, & don't just pick out the one or two that weren't that great. Take into account he was BMW's chief designer since 1992.

Y282

20,566 posts

171 months

Monday 24th October 2011
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TinyCappo said:
Thats the loudest ive ever laughed at a post.

Not bad. Not bad at all.

Johnboy Mac

2,666 posts

177 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
SleeperCell said:
Love it! This or a new 1M, no competition, this all day long.



marcosgt

11,011 posts

175 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
Dagnut said:
marcosgt said:
No, it's the current model.

M.
Not exactly a focused car but
It's the Super Tourer homologation model, not sure what more you want...

M

rockymount

145 posts

162 months

Monday 24th October 2011
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Albert Biermann. "We've discussed it several times but we've never been able to make the business case.” ……………..which roughly translated (to my mind anyway) is “We just can’t convince the fat cat beancounters and men in dark suits to do anything other than demand guaranteed 100% certainty on ROI”......... so I reckon we’re not likely to see too much groundbreaking stuff from BMW and just the odd ‘incremental’ improvements in engine economy, performance, handling etc. – I know this has worked well for Porsche with their 911, but if you do want to produce the next car equivalent of Steve Jobs/Apples, iPod, iPad, iPhone (OR anything else starting with an ‘i’ !!!) that’s got the so called ‘emotion and fun’ factor you’ll need to get off your fat arse, get your best designers on the case and have the gonads to “really go for it” ……..Oh I just remembered BMW ‘did’ actually design something that looked slightly fun and exciting that started with an ‘i’ !!!........... this little BMW i8 Concept beauty ;




Should tick all the right boxes for Herr Biermann - "using the technology that's socially acceptable at the time" ........translate... 1.5 litre front in-line ‘3-pot’ turbo with 220 bhp (221 ft/lbs torque) + 129 bhp front transversely mounted Electric Motor (184 ft/lbs torque) + All Wheel Drive + only 1480 Kg kerb weight (not too far off Mermaids 1300 Kg requirement - considering it’s got ‘two’ engines ! eek) and with those glass doors, great fun if Mrs. or Ms. BMW driver happens to driving one along wearing a short frock tongue out

geoffracing

617 posts

174 months

Monday 24th October 2011
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The styling isn't always perfect, but I don't want anything else than a BMW.

My wife has my 1996 328i, still going strong with its 275.000km on the clock.
My 2009 Z4 is just great.
Our 2004 "BMW" Cooper S is still fine too.

No Merc or Audi for me; for butchers or too bland.
No French car certainly.
Hondas are fine, but they have become SUPER-UGLY!

Mr Dave

3,233 posts

194 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
SleeperCell said:
RodMod said:
I think that they should do a M car for the purist, trouble now is anyone (funds providing) can go and buy a 3 series M car with 4 doors and its just not what M is about imho.

Rod.
I think you'll find that is mostly what M has always been about (in road cars anyway) since very shortly after they brought out the M1 (which, if we remember was a miserable sales failure)

Take a volume showroom model, use the ordinary engine with higher power output, add some visual glam, tart up the interior and give the chassis a bit of a workover and you have this.
Oh my , I was getting ready to post exactly this.

I hate this E30 M3 = best M car.

It didnt even have a 6 cylinder and to be honest I prefer driving E30 325 sports to them.

pSyCoSiS

3,581 posts

204 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
Will be interesting to see if they actually make this.


e30s50b30

47 posts

149 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
thewheelman said:
The Merc 190 Cosworth more than challenged it.
Eh,The e30 m3 is the most successful touring car ever.

marcosgt

11,011 posts

175 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
Mr Dave said:
SleeperCell said:
RodMod said:
I think that they should do a M car for the purist, trouble now is anyone (funds providing) can go and buy a 3 series M car with 4 doors and its just not what M is about imho.

Rod.
I think you'll find that is mostly what M has always been about (in road cars anyway) since very shortly after they brought out the M1 (which, if we remember was a miserable sales failure)

Take a volume showroom model, use the ordinary engine with higher power output, add some visual glam, tart up the interior and give the chassis a bit of a workover and you have this.
Oh my , I was getting ready to post exactly this.

I hate this E30 M3 = best M car.

It didnt even have a 6 cylinder and to be honest I prefer driving E30 325 sports to them.
I think there's a distinction between cars with an M tacked on the end and one with an M at the beginning.

An M'something' should be a truly sporting car (M1, M3, M5, M6..).

A 'something'M (or X6M, for example) can be a go faster version of something awful, good or indifferent - It's a like a Allegro LE really, just trim and sporty decals biggrin

The original M3 had a 4 cylinder engine for a reason... That's WHAT make it's a true M car, rather than an M'ised version of something else - It wasn't done to look good, appease PH'ers or sell in big numbers, it was built to win races, pure and simple...

M

kambites

67,462 posts

220 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
e30s50b30 said:
thewheelman said:
The Merc 190 Cosworth more than challenged it.
Eh,The e30 m3 is the most successful touring car ever.
I think we're talking about road cars, aren't we?

thewheelman

2,194 posts

172 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
kambites said:
e30s50b30 said:
thewheelman said:
The Merc 190 Cosworth more than challenged it.
Eh,The e30 m3 is the most successful touring car ever.
I think we're talking about road cars, aren't we?
I know i was.....

marcosgt

11,011 posts

175 months

Monday 24th October 2011
quotequote all
Errr - Remind me again what the M stands for...?

M.