RE: 2012 GT-R To Shave 8 Secs From 'Ring Lap-Time?

[Guvernator]

I realise you can mod it to make it more useable on track but it's still a heavy car and tyres and brakes are very expensive. Put it this way, it wouldn't be my first choice as a track toy, on the road however I'd have one in a hearbeat (as long as it had a warranty). Wonder what Nissan are going to do with regads to the extended warranty options. I predict it's not gonna be cheap.

[RJJ]

Guvernator said:

Really? While I acknowledge that the GT-R is a superior road car I don't think it's a better track car than a GT3. The GTR might be quicker on certain tracks but only for 2 laps and then you'd have to come back into the pits to cool it down while a GT3 will go round and round all day long. It really isn't surprising either seeing as a GT3 is designed to be used as a track toy whereas a GTR isn't. The GTR has many strengths and in some areas it is superior to the GT3 but the track is not it's natural habitat.

Edited by Guvernator on Sunday 30th October 17:24

Agree tracks are not it's natural habitat. My point is that all these lap times, nurburgring etc are one lap so given the GTR's capabilities on one lap it would be quicker around most circuits. As for durability of lap after lap yes the GT3 would be better suited and cheaper to run.

Road use and occasional track day, GTR for me.

[OldBob]

Guvernator said:

I realise you can mod it to make it more useable on track but it's still a heavy car and tyres and brakes are very expensive. Put it this way, it wouldn't be my first choice as a track toy, on the road however I'd have one in a hearbeat (as long as it had a warranty). Wonder what Nissan are going to do with regads to the extended warranty options. I predict it's not gonna be cheap.

Probably right we'll see re extended warranty....and yes, don't get me wrong tracking it well is not a cheap hobby. As I said before I prefer hiring cars for visited circuits mainly now and have a Cayman S that I think will be sufficient fun long term without trying to set fast lap times. The occasional GTR track trip is a blast though...but does eat the consumables :-(

[nickfrog]

RJJ said:

so given the GTR's capabilities on one lap it would be quicker around most circuits.

... than a GT3. In most hands it would indeed be. But in the right hands and back to back, I don't think so. In my experience, both are very very close on track. I have regularly seen serious peddlers matching each other's speed. Ring is not exactly your typical race track and not symptomatic of what the outcome would be on most conventional race tracks without the super long straights.

[Dagnut]

nickfrog said:

... than a GT3. In most hands it would indeed be. But in the right hands and back to back, I don't think so. In my experience, both are very very close on track. I have regularly seen serious peddlers matching each other's speed. Ring is not exactly your typical race track and not symptomatic of what the outcome would be on most conventional race tracks without the super long straights.

it was quicker the the GT3 in the hands of Chris Harris around silverstone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65jotM3cKQQ&fea...

it was quicker around top gear track, quicker around goodwood when tested by autocar...infact try and find a track where the gt3 is quicker...I.m not saying it a better track car but over 1 lap it's quicker..in every test I've seen

[trevor0760]

Please see the attached video showing a stock 09 GTR pulling 1.2g's at Spa on the latest spec (factory fit) Tyres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gWsvXh1E5w&fea...

As a ring novice you can also so see Matt Bell giving Sabine a hard time in her Porsche 911 GT3 RS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhqKoegIipQ&fea...

Please note that the weight of the car does take it's toll near the end of the lap as the Tyres do go off!

However, if the car could drive itself then why would ROBB Huff (WTCC driver) attend Bedford Autodrome last Saturday in order to set a lap time in the "How fast" challenge, having already posted a time in his 911 RUF Porsche?

Lap times from Saturday will be on the web site from Weds/Thursday at http://www.howfast.co.uk/leaderboard.aspx

I personally would like the car to be lighter, particularly for wet conditions where you can feel the weight of the car. However, what Nissan have achieved with this car is nothing short of outstanding and I have started saving hard for a 2012 model which incorporates many welcome changes/improvements.

[ZeeTacoe]

trevor0760 said:

Please see the attached video showing a stock 09 GTR pulling 1.2g's at Spa on the latest spec (factory fit) Tyres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gWsvXh1E5w&fea...

As a ring novice you can also so see Matt Bell giving Sabine a hard time in her Porsche 911 GT3 RS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhqKoegIipQ&fea...

Please note that the weight of the car does take it's toll near the end of the lap as the Tyres do go off!

However, if the car could drive itself then why would ROBB Huff (WTCC driver) attend Bedford Autodrome last Saturday in order to set a lap time in the "How fast" challenge, having already posted a time in his 911 RUF Porsche?

Lap times from Saturday will be on the web site from Weds/Thursday at http://www.howfast.co.uk/leaderboard.aspx

I personally would like the car to be lighter, particularly for wet conditions where you can feel the weight of the car. However, what Nissan have achieved with this car is nothing short of outstanding and I have started saving hard for a 2012 model which incorporates many welcome changes/improvements.

I'm fairly certain my dad would go to Bedford if someone was going to lend him a free car for a trackday. Doesn't change how good or bad the car is thought

[mrdemon]

The gtr at how fast was a 700bhp monster with r888 on driven by a pro driver.
So it should be quick. But when the times are posted take a look at the ttrs time on road tyres lol.
When said ttrs gets back there with r888 on it should post the fastest time lol.

Most cars inc GT3,s only post fast times because of the CUP tyres fitted or other track spec tyres.
Some of the cars at howfast are on full race soft slicks.
Put these cars on normal road rubber and watch the times go up lots.

Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 1st November 22:20

[DayTrader]

mrdemon said:

The gtr at how fast was a 700bhp monster with r888 on driven by a pro driver.
So it should be quick. But when the times are posted take a look at the ttrs time on road tyres lol.
When said ttrs gets back there with r888 on it should post the fastest time lol.

Most cars inc GT3,s only post fast times because of the CUP tyres fitted or other track spec tyres.
Some of the cars at howfast are on full race soft slicks.
Put these cars on normal road rubber and watch the times go up lots.

Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 1st November 22:20

After an Edit this is the the outcome?! Dear God.

[Guvernator]

DayTrader said:

Guvernator said:

Wonder what Nissan are going to do with regads to the extended warranty options. I predict it's not gonna be cheap.

£869 for 12 months from Nissan.

Prediction wrong.

That's actually very reasonable to be honest, judging by the ludicrous servicing prices at Nissan main dealers, I was expecting it to be a lot higher. Do you have any more details about how comprehensive that is and what it covers?

[Diamond blue]

Guvernator said:

That's actually very reasonable to be honest, judging by the ludicrous servicing prices at Nissan main dealers, I was expecting it to be a lot higher. Do you have any more details about how comprehensive that is and what it covers?

Theres quite a bit of scaremongering re costs attached to GTRs. The HPCs are expensive certainly but not compared to the costs of looking after other cars of similar performance.Porsche being an honourable exception.A Ferrari or Lambo costs a lot more (Double)
Their control of OE Dunlops ( Making them very pricey) and the need to service earlier cars every 6 months adds up. Also the attempts to extort money from customers in the first couple of years for wheel refurbs etc did them no favours. But there are several excellent independents who really know their stuff and who are much more reasonable.
Newer cars have 12 month intervals and fully inclusive service packages included (As do recent Ferraris)

[Guvernator]

Diamond blue said:

Guvernator said:

That's actually very reasonable to be honest, judging by the ludicrous servicing prices at Nissan main dealers, I was expecting it to be a lot higher. Do you have any more details about how comprehensive that is and what it covers?

Theres quite a bit of scaremongering re costs attached to GTRs. The HPCs are expensive certainly but not compared to the costs of looking after other cars of similar performance.Porsche being an honourable exception.A Ferrari or Lambo costs a lot more (Double)
Their control of OE Dunlops ( Making them very pricey) and the need to service earlier cars every 6 months adds up. Also the attempts to extort money from customers in the first couple of years for wheel refurbs etc did them no favours. But there are several excellent independents who really know their stuff and who are much more reasonable.
Newer cars have 12 month intervals and fully inclusive service packages included (As do recent Ferraris)

Yes I realise the game has moved on and their are alternative options now. I don't think Nissan did themselves any favours with their initial servicing policy\pricing. Some of the costs were shocking, I particularly remember something about gearbox oil costs being absolutely ludicrous and needing to be changed quite regularly.

It actually put a lot of people off GTR ownership, I know it did for me. However with this warranty scheme in place and some decent indies offering very good servicing, a 2-3 year old GT-R might not be the nightmare that some people were fearing and definately worthy of consideration.

[Dagnut]

Guvernator said:

Yes I realise the game has moved on and their are alternative options now. I don't think Nissan did themselves any favours with their initial servicing policy\pricing. Some of the costs were shocking, I particularly remember something about gearbox oil costs being absolutely ludicrous and needing to be changed quite regularly.

It actually put a lot of people off GTR ownership, I know it did for me. However with this warranty scheme in place and some decent indies offering very good servicing, a 2-3 year old GT-R might not be the nightmare that some people were fearing and definately worthy of consideration.

Are you thinking of buying? You had an R34 right?

[Guvernator]

Dagnut said:

Are you thinking of buying? You had an R34 right?

Yep, had a stage 1 R34 which was epic, still miss that car. Not looking at an R35 right now though as I am currently enjoying more relaxed motoring in the shape of a 335i convertible. This might however be an option in a year or two when I get bored of the Beemer. As with any petrolhead, I am always on the lookout for the next thing.

That will also give time for any long termish issues or any weakpoints if any on the R35 to make themselves apparent. Despite worries\hearsay that the R35 might be a bit more fragile than it's predecessors, these fortunately seem to have proven mostly unfounded, however I prefer other people to go through the pain of finding that out before I jump in.

[Diamond blue]

Guvernator said:

Yep, had a stage 1 R34 which was epic, still miss that car. Not looking at an R35 right now though as I am currently enjoying more relaxed motoring in the shape of a 335i convertible. This might however be an option in a year or two when I get bored of the Beemer. As with any petrolhead, I am always on the lookout for the next thing.

That will also give time for any long termish issues or any weakpoints if any on the R35 to make themselves apparent. Despite worries\hearsay that the R35 might be a bit more fragile than it's predecessors, these fortunately seem to have proven mostly unfounded, however I prefer other people to go through the pain of finding that out before I jump in.

They are proving to be as bullet proof as any of the previous generation cars. Lots with tuned engines that have been running faultlessly for a few years now.
Tuning is cheap, easy, and quickly make the car even more sensational. Different feel to earlier GTRs though. More Rear Drive than Four wheel drive.

[Trommel]

Diamond blue said:

Different feel to earlier GTRs though. More Rear Drive than Four wheel drive

You can't have driven an R32/33/34 GT-R if you think that ...

[Diamond blue]

Trommel said:

You can't have driven an R32/33/34 GT-R if you think that ...

I did just under 40000 miles in my R32, Very rear endy indeed and recoverable from some pretty ludicrous angles but with lots of obvious "help" from the transmission.
An R35 has perfect traction and very informative instruments telling you how much torque is being transferred to the front axle. But the 4wd is engaged only until the steering exceeds 15 degrees at which point it is effectively rear wheel drive.
You can actually get an R35 seriously out of shape and its down to you to sort it out. The R33/34 had "active" diffs and as I understand it reacted totally differently to the current car as well (Though I never owned one of them so I cant speak from experience)

[Trommel]

Diamond blue said:

The R33/34 had "active" diffs and as I understand it reacted totally differently to the current car as well (Though I never owned one of them so I cant speak from experience)

The older cars also actually reduced torque to the front axle with lateral G and steering angle.

The standard R33 and R34 GT-R 4WD worked in exactly the same way as the R32 GT-R (although the system reacted quicker in the later cars) - the ATESSA Pro cars (available BCNR33-onwards) had the A-LSD "active" diff, which could vary torque split from side to side and from memory also varied it based on additional G-sensor inputs (vertical G and deceleration).

[Diamond blue]

Trommel said:

The older cars also actually reduced torque to the front axle with lateral G and steering angle.

The standard R33 and R34 GT-R 4WD worked in exactly the same way as the R32 GT-R (although the system reacted quicker in the later cars) - the ATESSA Pro cars (available BCNR33-onwards) had the A-LSD "active" diff, which could vary torque split from side to side and from memory also varied it based on additional G-sensor inputs (vertical G and deceleration).

There you go , thats a much better explanation than mine
The new car does not do it the same way. And may be less"fun" as a result tbh.
It is bl...y effective though. Hard to compare over such a gap but IIRC the R32 was soft and very low on grip by comparison , obviously tyres and perceptions of ride stiffness have changed hugely over the period. (e.g. the contemporary 911 (964) RS was considered too hard but seems perfectly acceptable nowadays)

[Trommel]

Diamond blue said:

but IIRC the R32 was soft and very low on grip by comparison , obviously tyres and perceptions of ride stiffness have changed hugely over the period

Definitely - my first R32 GT-R (on standard suspension) was quite soft by today's standards. I think it was more fun for it though.