RE: Driven: Ferrari 250 GTO Replica
Discussion
treetops said:
Fakes devalue any brand.
Not in this case unfortunately. you could build 10,000 of them and an original would still be £20m+Take the physical car out of the equation and the racing provenance and history alone would be worth that sum to a serious officiando I would imagine.
If Nick Mason crashed his and rebuilt it, I dont think the value would change a great deal.
Of the 39 original GTO’s few are as they left the factory, many have been involved in major crashes or have been burnt out and then rebuilt. The amount old metal in some of these cars is far out weighted by the new. So yes they started out as the original 39 but don’t kid yourself into thinking that they are as was.
As for the recreations, in some cases the only things they lack over a real one are a relevant chassis and engine number and the fact they were not built at the Ferrari Factory. The classic GTO market is all about the race wins, the past drivers and the past owners, these things cannot be recreated and are what gives these cars their real value.
I have been recently looking at this Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagota recreation. Again real ones will set you back a minimum of £5 million now. But for a mere £475,000 you can have one of these, and unlike the Ferrari this is an exact recreation with the correct engine and chassis:
Would I buy one if I had the money? Hell yes. And I would be happy to tell people it is a recreation. The fact that cars like this exist has to be applauded if the skill and workmanship matches or in a lot of cases excides the originals.
The real ones will always be the originals, their value and mystique will not be diminished by these high quality copies
As for the recreations, in some cases the only things they lack over a real one are a relevant chassis and engine number and the fact they were not built at the Ferrari Factory. The classic GTO market is all about the race wins, the past drivers and the past owners, these things cannot be recreated and are what gives these cars their real value.
I have been recently looking at this Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagota recreation. Again real ones will set you back a minimum of £5 million now. But for a mere £475,000 you can have one of these, and unlike the Ferrari this is an exact recreation with the correct engine and chassis:
Would I buy one if I had the money? Hell yes. And I would be happy to tell people it is a recreation. The fact that cars like this exist has to be applauded if the skill and workmanship matches or in a lot of cases excides the originals.
The real ones will always be the originals, their value and mystique will not be diminished by these high quality copies
TIGA84 said:
treetops said:
Fakes devalue any brand.
Not in this case unfortunately. you could build 10,000 of them and an original would still be £20m+Take the physical car out of the equation and the racing provenance and history alone would be worth that sum to a serious officiando I would imagine.
If Nick Mason crashed his and rebuilt it, I dont think the value would change a great deal.
[1] Personally I don't have a problem with this - it's nice if at least one truly original example is left but otherwise I'd really rather see the cars being used as they were meant to be and accept the inevitable consequences.
Perhaps we are losing some perspective here. While it’s all very well to argue about how it’s not “real”, or it’s wasting a “real GTE” maybe we should try and view it from a far more basic premise?
Why do we really love the cars we do?
For me it’s simple:
1. It’s a thing of beauty
2. It makes me feel special and it’s an event
As long as the physical form of the car is as pleasing to the eye as the real thing (and plenty can be, Diablo replicas on MR2 donors aside...) and it give you that unquantifiable feeling inside, who cares.
I don’t give a crap if it’s not the “real deal”. I’d love to have something that beautiful on my drive.
That’s the bottom line for me. It’s a thing of beauty. While the arguments for its intrinsic value, brand identity and the rest are all relevant at some level: to me, at the level I am talking about it's just superfluous errata that clouds the picture.
Why do we really love the cars we do?
For me it’s simple:
1. It’s a thing of beauty
2. It makes me feel special and it’s an event
As long as the physical form of the car is as pleasing to the eye as the real thing (and plenty can be, Diablo replicas on MR2 donors aside...) and it give you that unquantifiable feeling inside, who cares.
I don’t give a crap if it’s not the “real deal”. I’d love to have something that beautiful on my drive.
That’s the bottom line for me. It’s a thing of beauty. While the arguments for its intrinsic value, brand identity and the rest are all relevant at some level: to me, at the level I am talking about it's just superfluous errata that clouds the picture.
Edited by AdvocatusD on Friday 28th October 15:54
flashygee said:
Replica is not really right.
<things>
A Datsun with GTO Plastic body is a Replica.
Nope. A replica should be very very close to the real thing, basically a brand new car built to the design of an old one. Many proper replicas use parts from an original car, or spare parts made in period but not used. The jigsaw LeMans spitfire is a replica, for example. Recreation would be a synonym, if it is factory built it's usually called 'saction 2' or 'saction 3' or whatever.<things>
A Datsun with GTO Plastic body is a Replica.
I don't know what a Datsun with a GTO plastic body is, probably a 'tribute'.
Just because someone calls something a replica doesn't mean it is, the word is used way too often. To replicate means to copy exactly, or very closely.
Edited by varsas on Friday 28th October 15:55
bigbadbikercats said:
Given the provenance of some historic racing cars, which is the bigger fake, the "replica" or the "genuine" car which has been repeatedly thrashed, crashed, and rebuilt[1] until pretty much the only "genuine" bit left is the chassis number? At least a replica like this is honest about what it is...
[1] Personally I don't have a problem with this - it's nice if at least one truly original example is left but otherwise I'd really rather see the cars being used as they were meant to be and accept the inevitable consequences.
spot on. [1] Personally I don't have a problem with this - it's nice if at least one truly original example is left but otherwise I'd really rather see the cars being used as they were meant to be and accept the inevitable consequences.
Johnboy Mac said:
AV12 said:
I'd love one and I would probably love the 6.0 V12 from the Enzo aboard as well.
You'd be seen as anarchist by those chaps in the FOC! 
Edited by Johnboy Mac on Friday 28th October 13:50
Thread here on Ferrarichat (need to register to see the photos) http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=...
Streetrod said:
Of the 39 original GTO’s few are as they left the factory, many have been involved in major crashes or have been burnt out and then rebuilt. The amount old metal in some of these cars is far out weighted by the new. So yes they started out as the original 39 but don’t kid yourself into thinking that they are as was.
As for the recreations, in some cases the only things they lack over a real one are a relevant chassis and engine number and the fact they were not built at the Ferrari Factory. The classic GTO market is all about the race wins, the past drivers and the past owners, these things cannot be recreated and are what gives these cars their real value.
I have been recently looking at this Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagota recreation. Again real ones will set you back a minimum of £5 million now. But for a mere £475,000 you can have one of these, and unlike the Ferrari this is an exact recreation with the correct engine and chassis:
Would I buy one if I had the money? Hell yes. And I would be happy to tell people it is a recreation. The fact that cars like this exist has to be applauded if the skill and workmanship matches or in a lot of cases excides the originals.
The real ones will always be the originals, their value and mystique will not be diminished by these high quality copies
That's lovely but for nearly 500k I would want a real classic car, surely 500k gets you into a seriously lovely classic, but not a GTO or Zagato I understand. As for the recreations, in some cases the only things they lack over a real one are a relevant chassis and engine number and the fact they were not built at the Ferrari Factory. The classic GTO market is all about the race wins, the past drivers and the past owners, these things cannot be recreated and are what gives these cars their real value.
I have been recently looking at this Aston Martin DB4 GT Zagota recreation. Again real ones will set you back a minimum of £5 million now. But for a mere £475,000 you can have one of these, and unlike the Ferrari this is an exact recreation with the correct engine and chassis:
Would I buy one if I had the money? Hell yes. And I would be happy to tell people it is a recreation. The fact that cars like this exist has to be applauded if the skill and workmanship matches or in a lot of cases excides the originals.
The real ones will always be the originals, their value and mystique will not be diminished by these high quality copies
Edited by Wills2 on Friday 28th October 17:39
RESSE said:
avhbi said:
There was an original RHD 250 GTO and a 330 GTO........
Thank you - I didn't know that (good pub "ammo").Here are a couple of pics of RHD cars being driven hard at Goodwood!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60966609@N08/57970583...
and
http://www.flickr.com/photos/60966609@N08/57970804...
IMHO it would look far better with its original GTE body on it, but mustn’t grumble as GTE's are now getting to the point where they are valuable enough to be restored and not just gutted for a GTO replica.
It’s interesting to note that with most of the major components now being remanufactured not only by the factory but also by a number of specialists, it would currently cost a little over £300k to build one from scratch.
It’s interesting to note that with most of the major components now being remanufactured not only by the factory but also by a number of specialists, it would currently cost a little over £300k to build one from scratch.
Streetrod said:
The fact that cars like this exist has to be applauded if the skill and workmanship matches or in a lot of cases excides the originals.
That's a pratical & important point there Streetrod. Most of these top rate rep's will be far better built than the originals and that to me is a very worthwhile plus point especially if one is splashing out 300k+. 
soad said:
How much are they charging for one? Or does the cost vary?
Makes me think of all the cobra replicas.
Not really an off the shelf item, but you can pick one up for £300k and up (as the donors have gone from £25k-£80k+ in the past 6 years, the cost of the replicas has gone up) . . . . . or spend less than a third of that on a GTE, have the motor breathed on to bring it upto TestRossa spec and enjoy almost all of the GTO's plus points, but the added bonus of getting all of the GTE's goodness thrown in.Makes me think of all the cobra replicas.
+
This is true. With no bumpers, a new exhaust is cheaper (and quicker) then getting that lovely alloy body repaired. Reminds me of the 70s Aston V8s, and the endless debate as to whether its cheaper to get a new bumper or new exhaust- at any time, one was always cheaper then the other (and some, like mine had the exhaust stick out more then the bumper...)
Anyhow, nice to see a healthy debate on replicas/reproductions. I dont have a problem as long as they are advertised as such, and dont involve destruction of an original, but "lesser" car like a GTE.
y2blade said:
dele said:
That would be great if the exhausts weren't about 6ft too long
They double as parking sensors.Anyhow, nice to see a healthy debate on replicas/reproductions. I dont have a problem as long as they are advertised as such, and dont involve destruction of an original, but "lesser" car like a GTE.
Is the car in the festure new? I only ask because a good 250GTE is now £100k. A number of the 250 GTO replicas were constructed in the 70s and 80s when good GTEs were worth less than £30k and donor ones a lot less. With most good 250 recreations having a ceiling price of £300k, with costs of building them well into 6 figures and without a supply of donor GTEs, I doubt anyone would bother building a replica on this basis any more if profit were in their mind.
Given the above, check out the 250 GTO Ali body and 330 chassis for sale on eBay....£50k....good value?....
Given the above, check out the 250 GTO Ali body and 330 chassis for sale on eBay....£50k....good value?....
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