RE: PH Heroes: Ford Escort RS Cosworth

[Bogracer]

Froomee said:

Dagnut said:

300bhp/ton said:

Maybe not many no.

Although a lighter 197hp Rover 220 Coupe could be had. It might not have matched the AWD traction off the line (but then who in the UK races from a stop anyway). But from say a 20mph to 100mph sprint it was equally as quick.


Must admit, I'm being hard if it came across as claiming it as slow. It wasn't, it just wasn't ground breaking performance.

The rover was more than match for it in straight line performance but wouldn't see which way it went on a back road...the only car in our "gang" back in 95 or so that could keep up with it on a back road was an 86 Corrola coupe and that's only because the guy driving it was exceptional..we didn't have an Intergrale to compare with but there was a Calbria turbo, rover turbo, an AWD and RWD shappire..it was a bloddy quick car with out getting into M3/911 territory and even then on an Irish back road it would murder those 2...stats don't tell you every thing the Cosworth was much revered car at the time and not just because of the styling

The performance is not ground breaking in standard form but how many are standard? I was looking at buying one last year and most were circa 350-400bhp apart from completely standard ones which are rare and usually need work.............. all that power in the early to mid 90's must have been good fun! Even now a car that is as light as the Cosworth (around 1300KG?) with 4wd and all that power will beat most things although admittedly the same could be said for Evo's, Impreza's ,etc.

I think the reason the Cosworth holds its value is because there are not 100's of editions spanning numerous models including a current equivalent. If the MK1 Focus and MK2 focus were AWD and had the Cosworth badge i think values would have dropped slightly rather than increased slightly. The Intergrale is similar in this respect hence the values are also on the increase it wouldn't surprise me if both cars head the way of the Sierra RS500.

Having been in an RS4 Audi that was ripped a new hole by a modified Impreza not so long ago all i can say is the sheer pace of these cars when looked after and tuned properly (for relatively little expense) is nothing short of ridiculous.

Please don't even try to suggest that at Rover 200 Coupe was a good car. Total rubbish, all examples should be sent to the crusher!

[anything fast]

mate of mine had brand new t top L reg coupe back in the day, it was very fast in a straight line, but it was a POS and veered all over the place when you had your foot down and you could feel the body flex.. not nice! the 16v NA was actually much better to drive..

[e8_pack]

See this is exactly the kind of thing i'd look at be a mind to take a closer look and openly admire, and walk straight past a ferrari to do it.

[s m]

anything fast said:

mate of mine had brand new t top L reg coupe back in the day, it was very fast in a straight line, but it was a POS and veered all over the place when you had your foot down and you could feel the body flex.. not nice! the 16v NA was actually much better to drive..

A lot of this was down to the Torsen diff originally used. A friend owned a K-reg Nightfire red coupe and it had the original Type A diff fitted. He had a problem with the gearbox and ultimately used the Type B diff ( used in the later 620ti IIRC ).
It made an enormous difference to the handling.
The type A diff was developed for the US miltary HMMWV - it didn't work so well in the fwd application as the bias ratio wasn't really suitable. The Type B diffs are much closer to the ratios used in stuff like the DC2 ITR etc

[richard300]

Bogracer said:

Froomee said:

Dagnut said:

300bhp/ton said:

Maybe not many no.

Although a lighter 197hp Rover 220 Coupe could be had. It might not have matched the AWD traction off the line (but then who in the UK races from a stop anyway). But from say a 20mph to 100mph sprint it was equally as quick.


Must admit, I'm being hard if it came across as claiming it as slow. It wasn't, it just wasn't ground breaking performance.

The rover was more than match for it in straight line performance but wouldn't see which way it went on a back road...the only car in our "gang" back in 95 or so that could keep up with it on a back road was an 86 Corrola coupe and that's only because the guy driving it was exceptional..we didn't have an Intergrale to compare with but there was a Calbria turbo, rover turbo, an AWD and RWD shappire..it was a bloddy quick car with out getting into M3/911 territory and even then on an Irish back road it would murder those 2...stats don't tell you every thing the Cosworth was much revered car at the time and not just because of the styling

The performance is not ground breaking in standard form but how many are standard? I was looking at buying one last year and most were circa 350-400bhp apart from completely standard ones which are rare and usually need work.............. all that power in the early to mid 90's must have been good fun! Even now a car that is as light as the Cosworth (around 1300KG?) with 4wd and all that power will beat most things although admittedly the same could be said for Evo's, Impreza's ,etc.

I think the reason the Cosworth holds its value is because there are not 100's of editions spanning numerous models including a current equivalent. If the MK1 Focus and MK2 focus were AWD and had the Cosworth badge i think values would have dropped slightly rather than increased slightly. The Intergrale is similar in this respect hence the values are also on the increase it wouldn't surprise me if both cars head the way of the Sierra RS500.

Having been in an RS4 Audi that was ripped a new hole by a modified Impreza not so long ago all i can say is the sheer pace of these cars when looked after and tuned properly (for relatively little expense) is nothing short of ridiculous.

Please don't even try to suggest that at Rover 200 Coupe was a good car. Total rubbish, all examples should be sent to the crusher!

I think it’s reasonable to say that most probably have been sent to the crusher, those that remain are probably sitting in peoples gardens with shagged head gaskets, and damp moldy interiors.

[dave escos]

Baryonyx said:

I wasn't aware they'd won so many tarmac championships, but that sounds about right. I was referring to the top level rallying, where IIRC it never did too well. Yes, the Toyota incident is suspicious, and losing a 71 second lead in such dramatic fashion raised eyebrows.

The high points were Portugal, where the Escos spanked the competition (over 2/3rds fastest times records) and then with wins again at the Corsica and Acropolis stages, a privateer win in San Remo, and a win at Catalunya.

After that though, it never captured the wins it should have. Delacour's inability to race may have played a part, but for whatever reason the glory was over. The Escort was the perfect tool to tackle the Delta Integrale, but it looked outmoded against the Japanese competition. And the Escort entered competition at a time when the Delta Integrale looked as though it was finally starting to age. The game was up though, now that the Japanese were on the case.

Please, don't think I'm bashing the Escort Cosworth, I'm not. It's a fantastic car, but upon arrival it was never truely competitive (rumour was that Lancia and Toyota's cars were running significantly more bhp at the time too). It's still an awesome car though. No-one says the M3 E30 is a rubbish car just because the Sierra dominated the track at the time, for instance.

look winning all them championships beating lancias evos subarus etc etc makes the car a top rally car,as i pointed out Toyota were found to be cheating ***** so look at the facts Ford were robbed.
also the escort was runner up in the wrc too but the facts stand that winning so many championships around the world inc the european rally championship makes it a top rally car.
Also i'd like to point out that Francois Delecour broke his ankles in a ferrari f40 crash that put him out of the wrc when the escort cosworth needed him, imagine Loeb or Makkinen trying to rally with smashed ankles and winning and thats what happened to Ford when they had a very good chance of winning the WRC with its star driver.
I saw the best drivers in the world rally Escort Cosworths and also i watched escort cosworths racing Group A in the DTT which the car was very competant in and won in 1992 and kept on winning in group a circuit racing for the next 4 years,i also watched the Escort Cosworth in rallycross which from 1988 until 1994 Cosworths won the division 1 FIA European Championships beating everything in its path.
So Cosworths were not just a Tarmac rally car or Touring car as Rallycross is very much about the loose stuff and it won there as the results show.

[dave escos]

Bogracer said:

A bit too council estate, signet ring and shell suit for me. Delta Itagrali EVO for me, it's a much better car.

Having been to Italy where the Delta grale is driven by the same type of people as a Cosworths you would find the Italian Delta driven by a Diadora wearing greasy long haired unshaven Signor carrying a flick knife.
Having had a early Delta Integrale it was nice but later on say 1992 onwards nowhere near as good as a Cosworth the same vintage.

[anything fast]

dave escos said:

Bogracer said:

A bit too council estate, signet ring and shell suit for me. Delta Itagrali EVO for me, it's a much better car.

Having been to Italy where the Delta grale is driven by the same type of people as a Cosworths you would find the Italian Delta driven by a Diadora wearing greasy long haired unshaven Signor carrying a flick knife.
Having had a early Delta Integrale it was nice but later on say 1992 onwards nowhere near as good as a Cosworth the same vintage.

agreed! i would also ask how many ppl living on council estates (wearing a £20 tracksuit) could afford to buy a car that can command as much as £20,000 for a minter and is ins gp 20??

Most of 'those' types drive shagged old BMW's, normaly a 530' with fake m badge on the back! LOL

[ECOS95]

trunks82 said:

*sigh*another car ill never own....

Never say never!!

[bicycleshorts]

spiritof'76 said:

Have to say, i really love mine .............. well, most of the time anyway

In fact, i'll probably be buried in it

[KM666]

anything fast said:

agreed! i would also ask how many ppl living on council estates (wearing a £20 tracksuit) could afford to buy a car that can command as much as £20,000 for a minter and is ins gp 20??

Most of 'those' types drive shagged old BMW's, normaly a 530' with fake m badge on the back! LOL

I know a home based trader on the estate who gets some tatsy motors through his, nothing as sought after as the escort, but hes younger than me and does well out of it, he'll now have 4-5 £3-£12k cars sat outside his.

[richard300]

dave escos said:

Bogracer said:

A bit too council estate, signet ring and shell suit for me. Delta Itagrali EVO for me, it's a much better car.

Having been to Italy where the Delta grale is driven by the same type of people as a Cosworths you would find the Italian Delta driven by a Diadora wearing greasy long haired unshaven Signor carrying a flick knife.
Having had a early Delta Integrale it was nice but later on say 1992 onwards nowhere near as good as a Cosworth the same vintage.

I'm Surprised you havn't owned a Integrale Bogracer. As i see that you own (or on your last update of your profile in 2010) owned a fully restored 1972 Porssche 911s, A BMW 328i Convertible, 320d Touring, a DMS tuned BMW X3, Mazda MX5, An Ultima, a 68 Mustang and a DMS Upgraded Porsche 966 Turbo!!!

Edited by richard300 on Saturday 12th November 14:56

[P300V8]

I did 65k in my Sierra Sapphire Cosworth and 85k in my Escort Cosworth, both owned from new. Great cars and compared to most other vehicles of their day they were fantastic and they were so safe in poor weather conditions. I wouldn't have missed the experience for anything!

[johnbull]

s m said:

Do you know John Bull? He ran that V6 one for a while doing evaluation work. Tell us about the 2 litre rwd one

I am the John Bull that SM refers to! I was responsible for building Escort Cosworths at Karmann (amongst numerous other tasks in my Ford career, including being responsible for Vehicle Dynamics). I was also responsible for building the one off Escort Cosworth bodied, RWD prototype with a V6 2.9L Scorpio engine and drivetrain.

However, I have no recollection of a 2 litre version! Dread the thought!

[TonyHetherington]

KM666 said:

Momo Arrows?

Sorry for my long delay - I only just saw this.

Yes my car had Momo Arrows - do you know of it?

[Dave Hedgehog]

last ford made that i would like to own

[rigga]

Dave Hedgehog said:

Only ford made that i would like to own

Fixed that for you

[ilovevolvo]

I owned a very rare silver l reg and loved it

[Dave Hedgehog]

rigga said:

Fixed that for you

nah i loved the whale tale cossie, saphire 4*4 cossie (i had one ) and would kill for a RS500

oh and the RS200

but thats about it

[s m]

johnbull said:

s m said:

dave stew said:

s m said:

dave stew said:

Anyone remember the RWD RS2000 prototype from the early 90s? Escort Cosworth bodyshell, N/A 2.0 16v engine, Scorpio drivetrain.

Nope, but I remember the one with the Cosworth V6 engine

Well I drove the 2.0 litre one around Boreham back in the day!

Do you know John Bull? He ran that V6 one for a while doing evaluation work. Tell us about the 2 litre rwd one

I am the John Bull that SM refers to! I was responsible for building Escort Cosworths at Karmann (amongst numerous other tasks in my Ford career, including being responsible for Vehicle Dynamics). I was also responsible for building the one off Escort Cosworth bodied, RWD prototype with a V6 2.9L Scorpio engine and drivetrain.

However, I have no recollection of a 2 litre version! Dread the thought!

Good to have an SVE person on here John!

I'd never heard of the 2 litre one but I think Dave was involved in the RSOC committee so wondered if it was anything connected with the rwd prototype that appeared in 'Autocar' mag sometime around 94. Think that was rumoured to be a 2 litre one