RE: Driven: Golf GTI Edition 35
Discussion
thewheelman said:
Cassius81 said:
thewheelman said:
Cassius81 said:
thewheelman said:
Diamond blue said:
Couple of points re the price,
£30k seems a great deal for a Golf BUT Golfs have premium class quality, no question, certainly a match for BMW IMO, so comparing it to a new 1 series or a 3 series for example is not unfair.
Cost of an F30 (New) 328i is going to be (like for like spec) £37-£38k+
Most cars in this class are leased or financed and therefore depreciation is the single most important cost. GTI Ed35 will be cheaper than a Megane RS 250 in that comparison even though it"appears" to be £3-£4k more expensive.55-60% retained value after 3 years I would think.
But for me the classlessness of the Golf is a really appealing aspect. It just doesn't have the image problems that Audi and BMW especially seem to suffer from.
Its also a very sensible practical every day family car that can take a B road apart almost as well as anything else remotely in its class.
The default choice for sure (Although if we all thought like that it would be a boring old world)
That's your perception, in reality it has no more "class" than a Ford Focus, & build quality certainly is no better. As i said before, VW are great at marketing & some suckers fall for that. £30k seems a great deal for a Golf BUT Golfs have premium class quality, no question, certainly a match for BMW IMO, so comparing it to a new 1 series or a 3 series for example is not unfair.
Cost of an F30 (New) 328i is going to be (like for like spec) £37-£38k+
Most cars in this class are leased or financed and therefore depreciation is the single most important cost. GTI Ed35 will be cheaper than a Megane RS 250 in that comparison even though it"appears" to be £3-£4k more expensive.55-60% retained value after 3 years I would think.
But for me the classlessness of the Golf is a really appealing aspect. It just doesn't have the image problems that Audi and BMW especially seem to suffer from.
Its also a very sensible practical every day family car that can take a B road apart almost as well as anything else remotely in its class.
The default choice for sure (Although if we all thought like that it would be a boring old world)
For me, a Focus (and indeed almost all other sporty hatches) have little class, whereas a Golf has some. Which is why I bought one. To use another example, in the same way as I'd take a stock Rangie TDV8 in a nice simple colour, with standard wheels, rather than one of those horrific Overfinch conversions. Which are the RR equivalent of a Focus RS. To me, anyway.
Edited by thewheelman on Thursday 3rd November 15:02
Johnboy Mac said:
Cassius81 said:
I agree with you re pace - the Mk5 GTI is fun, yes, but it really isn't that fast. Decent modern turbo diesels (such as the GTD) can keep up happily enough...
But a GTi or it's ilk are not soley about being fast, it's the whole package. Thus, a GTi is a far better tool than GTD unless mpg and towing are major issues. 
thewheelman said:
I've had experience of them. They personally do no more than other hot hatches for me, & nothing to justify the extra premium.
Well, they hold their value much better than all but Audis and MINIs, are made of genuinely superior soft touch plastics and handle and go very sweetly indeed.They are " upmarket" but avoid the envy/resentful/boorish image of other upper end brands.I very much appreciate the post Parry-Jones ethos at Ford (Although I think its not quite what it was c.Puma, Focus Mk1 etc,) but if you think that large swathes of silver painted plastic all over the dash is attractive then fine. For me it detracts from really well set up drivers cars like the Mondeo, S- Max and Fiesta.Ford changed the game totally with Focus Mk1, a revolutionary car that still doesn't get the kudos it deserves. Full multi link independent suspension and 1000s of hours of setting it up just so, made all our lives better but the competition has caught up in that aspect and so now we dont have to make a clear choice, stodgy but solid (Like a Mk4 Golf) versus entertaining but plasticky (Like a Focus Mk1) By definition, everyone of us is a keen driver I would imagine or why else are you on this site but the Golf is a fine drivers car too.
Image and perception of class are a distraction from what makes a good car. My learned friends own cars including an F355 Ferrari, AM Vantage V8, E92 M3s, RS4, RS5... many of whom cannot understand why I am planning to buy another Focus RS (unless I stretch to a GTR, similar image they reckon!). This time in blue, not white mind. I think they are bl**dy brilliant cars. In leafy Sussex / Surrey it's a refreshing change to a Golf GTI, S3 etc, kind of an inversion of snobbery and rebellion against the norm?
TobesH said:
Image and perception of class are a distraction from what makes a good car. My learned friends own cars including an F355 Ferrari, AM Vantage V8, E92 M3s, RS4, RS5... many of whom cannot understand why I am planning to buy another Focus RS (unless I stretch to a GTR, similar image they reckon!). This time in blue, not white mind. I think they are bl**dy brilliant cars. In leafy Sussex / Surrey it's a refreshing change to a Golf GTI, S3 etc, kind of an inversion of snobbery and rebellion against the norm?
Diana in cossie... i might have just soiled myself 
anything fast said:
TobesH said:
Image and perception of class are a distraction from what makes a good car. My learned friends own cars including an F355 Ferrari, AM Vantage V8, E92 M3s, RS4, RS5... many of whom cannot understand why I am planning to buy another Focus RS (unless I stretch to a GTR, similar image they reckon!). This time in blue, not white mind. I think they are bl**dy brilliant cars. In leafy Sussex / Surrey it's a refreshing change to a Golf GTI, S3 etc, kind of an inversion of snobbery and rebellion against the norm?
Diana in cossie... i might have just soiled myself 
pSyCoSiS said:
I like the original.
My favourite is still the MK2 Golf GTi Big Bumper Model - in Black or Grey please.
Or, one of the Metallic Purple LHD G60s with BBS Split Rims!
Ditto - but prefer the Corrado Storm Limited (Purple please) over the G60.My favourite is still the MK2 Golf GTi Big Bumper Model - in Black or Grey please.
Or, one of the Metallic Purple LHD G60s with BBS Split Rims!
And pleeeeez - change those aweful aftermarket wheels on the white Mk1 in the picture...
TobesH said:
Image and perception of class are a distraction from what makes a good car. My learned friends own cars including an F355 Ferrari, AM Vantage V8, E92 M3s, RS4, RS5... many of whom cannot understand why I am planning to buy another Focus RS (unless I stretch to a GTR, similar image they reckon!). This time in blue, not white mind. I think they are bl**dy brilliant cars. In leafy Sussex / Surrey it's a refreshing change to a Golf GTI, S3 etc, kind of an inversion of snobbery and rebellion against the norm?
Was Diana a big petrolhead then?
I had a GTR (And many years ago an R32 GTR) and am amazed at the prejudice it is subject to form owners of certain marques. All sorts of snobbery about race heritage etc from Porsche fans that is faintly ridiculous
I know it contradicts everything I have said re Golf/Fords but I quite agree. Perceived "image" is a misleading, mystifying factor when considering a cars merits.
BUT Its important from a resale/depreciation point of view and thats crucial.
. RS Fords are great and I've owned a couple but you have to put up with quite a lot of compromises on the environment you sit in. Cheap hard plastics and little green starter buttons acres of silver painted plastic,are hardly the end of the world but , and its a big but, recent mainly German competition are as good to drive whilst being far nicer places to be in.
The Fords have also come on a lot in terms of build quality (As have Vauxhalls and Skodas, Seats etc) but they are no longer better to drive, just "as good" and that being equal why wouldn't you buy the slow depreciating, high quality car that your mum/wife/girlfriend likes too.
ArosaMike said:
I don't agree with that. Having seen/heard the way that Ford cars are engineered at an OEM level, they really aren't as good as VW. Everything at Ford is cost, cost, cost. If they have the choice between a really good engineering solution and an OK solution that's not as good, but cheaper, they'll choose the cheaper option every time sacrificing some element of component performance/life/quality. VW and the other German manufacturers have a very different outlook and are very much engineering/quality driven. They tend to see the benefits of an engineering led company and accept slightly higher piece price/development cost offset against lower warranty claims and volume costs.
No, VW aren't problem free by any stretch, but then neither is anyone else, and the fundamental design is generally better. You find higher quality materials and better general design in a VW than a Ford.
I usually end up in some kind of car related discussion with Taxi drivers, and a lot of them I've spoken to report that Ford cars often last longer on the ranks than the equivalent VW model. I have found from experience that there is a perceptible increase in quality of VW parts such as trim and fastenings, both trim and mechanical, but the Ford cars seem to have quality where it really matters and often less quality on show. No, VW aren't problem free by any stretch, but then neither is anyone else, and the fundamental design is generally better. You find higher quality materials and better general design in a VW than a Ford.
I think the Mk6 is a great looking car, certainly miles better than the blob that came before it and I can see its a superb choice for people who need a car to perform a number of roles.
Diamond blue said:
TobesH said:
Image and perception of class are a distraction from what makes a good car. My learned friends own cars including an F355 Ferrari, AM Vantage V8, E92 M3s, RS4, RS5... many of whom cannot understand why I am planning to buy another Focus RS (unless I stretch to a GTR, similar image they reckon!). This time in blue, not white mind. I think they are bl**dy brilliant cars. In leafy Sussex / Surrey it's a refreshing change to a Golf GTI, S3 etc, kind of an inversion of snobbery and rebellion against the norm?
Was Diana a big petrolhead then?
I had a GTR (And many years ago an R32 GTR) and am amazed at the prejudice it is subject to form owners of certain marques. All sorts of snobbery about race heritage etc from Porsche fans that is faintly ridiculous
I know it contradicts everything I have said re Golf/Fords but I quite agree. Perceived "image" is a misleading, mystifying factor when considering a cars merits.
BUT Its important from a resale/depreciation point of view and thats crucial.
. RS Fords are great and I've owned a couple but you have to put up with quite a lot of compromises on the environment you sit in. Cheap hard plastics and little green starter buttons acres of silver painted plastic,are hardly the end of the world but , and its a big but, recent mainly German competition are as good to drive whilst being far nicer places to be in.
The Fords have also come on a lot in terms of build quality (As have Vauxhalls and Skodas, Seats etc) but they are no longer better to drive, just "as good" and that being equal why wouldn't you buy the slow depreciating, high quality car that your mum/wife/girlfriend likes too.
I go to Le Mans every year, in 2010 we went via Santander and drove up from Spain to the track. People would ask, what car are taking, my reply, 'a Ford Focus.' 'Oh', was the answer, 'will the others wait for you then!' Love it, little did they know!
mwstewart said:
ArosaMike said:
I don't agree with that. Having seen/heard the way that Ford cars are engineered at an OEM level, they really aren't as good as VW. Everything at Ford is cost, cost, cost. If they have the choice between a really good engineering solution and an OK solution that's not as good, but cheaper, they'll choose the cheaper option every time sacrificing some element of component performance/life/quality. VW and the other German manufacturers have a very different outlook and are very much engineering/quality driven. They tend to see the benefits of an engineering led company and accept slightly higher piece price/development cost offset against lower warranty claims and volume costs.
No, VW aren't problem free by any stretch, but then neither is anyone else, and the fundamental design is generally better. You find higher quality materials and better general design in a VW than a Ford.
I usually end up in some kind of car related discussion with Taxi drivers, and a lot of them I've spoken to report that Ford cars often last longer on the ranks than the equivalent VW model. I have found from experience that there is a perceptible increase in quality of VW parts such as trim and fastenings, both trim and mechanical, but the Ford cars seem to have quality where it really matters and often less quality on show. No, VW aren't problem free by any stretch, but then neither is anyone else, and the fundamental design is generally better. You find higher quality materials and better general design in a VW than a Ford.
I think the Mk6 is a great looking car, certainly miles better than the blob that came before it and I can see its a superb choice for people who need a car to perform a number of roles.
Had a MkV GTi and I reckon it was a little dull in standard form. Yes, the handling is good but it needs a bit of extra wallop to up the excitement factor.
I reckon an Edition version could be just the ticket for an all-rounder. The alternative is a remap to which VAG engines seem to respond very well to.
I had the MkV done after around 5000 miles clocked up and it dyno'd at 252bhp and 284 lb/ft really gave it another dimension and encouraged a bit naughtiness when the opportunity arose.
I reckon an Edition version could be just the ticket for an all-rounder. The alternative is a remap to which VAG engines seem to respond very well to.
I had the MkV done after around 5000 miles clocked up and it dyno'd at 252bhp and 284 lb/ft really gave it another dimension and encouraged a bit naughtiness when the opportunity arose.
GTEYE said:
but you can see where VW put the extra quality in, which i guess is why they cost more.
you might be able to see 'vw extra quality' but when I went from a MKIV Anniversary to a MKV GTi I was horrified at the cheap, nasty, scratch prone plastics, seats that seemed to wear very quickly and 'bobbly' carpet that reminded me of an early 90's Hyundai.The MKVI improved on that but, in my opinion, it isn't a patch on other 'premium' cars and even some other 'lesser' models in the Volkswagen group's output (Skoda springs to mind).
Put simply I dont see the GTi as a premium product in the same way it managed back in the MKIV days, albeit one that's streets ahead in terms of the way it drives.
Well overpriced.
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