RE: Driven: Golf GTI Edition 35
Discussion
thewheelman said:
You're spot on right there. It does seem to be a perceived idea of being middle class that attracts a large amount of buyers to the brand. As you said, you'd pick the Ford over the same spec VW, as would i. I also suspect that like me, you don't buy a car to impress the neighbours, you buy the car you like.
I didn't buy a VW to impress anyone though! If anything, I tend to think it's a fairly low key car, but it suits everything I need. It looks reasonably sporty, is fast enough for a useable road car, handles well and doesn't shout look at me. A Focus ST on the other hand is covered in look at me addenda and the RS looks like it crashed through Halfords. Having driven the RS, I'm also not really that impressed. Yes it's quick, but it's not really very refined and is far too single minded for an every day car. I'd rather have a second car that's more track based and a fun every day car than one balls out road car!Colonial said:
HorneyMX5 said:
Complete tosh. I'm a regular on a GolfGTI forum and there are plenty of proper petrolheads in modern GTIs. Some drive them standard and others mod them to up to 500bhp and hammer them round the ring in their spare time.
Nick
Yep. Same here. Nick
A guy one a forum I'm on has an insanely nodded gti. Anti lag bigger turbo etc etc. Standard from the outside but super quick. It's a blast to drive and he is a true petrol head.
I knew the moment I opened this thread there would be tonnes of rubbish about VWs being dull and overpriced from people who would then start waffling about buying a 10 year old 911 for £30k instead of a brand new GTI. Seriously these people need to get a life and realise that it doesn't make you any less of a petrol head owning a brand new hot hatch than if you have a old sports car.
Froomee said:
if you pay £28k for a Golf you will almost certainly lose a lot more ££££ when compared to something like a £17-20K Leon/Focus/Astra/Octavia/Renault that offers similar practicality and performance.
Focus RS is more than £28k new isn't it?Sporty Megane starts at £24kish?
So what £17-£20k car are you comparing the ED35 to?
ArosaMike said:
thewheelman said:
That's your perception, in reality it has no more "class" than a Ford Focus, & build quality certainly is no better. As i said before, VW are great at marketing & some suckers fall for that.
I don't agree with that. Having seen/heard the way that Ford cars are engineered at an OEM level, they really aren't as good as VW. Everything at Ford is cost, cost, cost. If they have the choice between a really good engineering solution and an OK solution that's not as good, but cheaper, they'll choose the cheaper option every time sacrificing some element of component performance/life/quality. VW and the other German manufacturers have a very different outlook and are very much engineering/quality driven. They tend to see the benefits of an engineering led company and accept slightly higher piece price/development cost offset against lower warranty claims and volume costs.No, VW aren't problem free by any stretch, but then neither is anyone else, and the fundamental design is generally better. You find higher quality materials and better general design in a VW than a Ford.
thewheelman said:
ArosaMike said:
thewheelman said:
That's your perception, in reality it has no more "class" than a Ford Focus, & build quality certainly is no better. As i said before, VW are great at marketing & some suckers fall for that.
I don't agree with that. Having seen/heard the way that Ford cars are engineered at an OEM level, they really aren't as good as VW. Everything at Ford is cost, cost, cost. If they have the choice between a really good engineering solution and an OK solution that's not as good, but cheaper, they'll choose the cheaper option every time sacrificing some element of component performance/life/quality. VW and the other German manufacturers have a very different outlook and are very much engineering/quality driven. They tend to see the benefits of an engineering led company and accept slightly higher piece price/development cost offset against lower warranty claims and volume costs.No, VW aren't problem free by any stretch, but then neither is anyone else, and the fundamental design is generally better. You find higher quality materials and better general design in a VW than a Ford.
Morba said:
Froomee said:
if you pay £28k for a Golf you will almost certainly lose a lot more ££££ when compared to something like a £17-20K Leon/Focus/Astra/Octavia/Renault that offers similar practicality and performance.
Focus RS is more than £28k new isn't it?Sporty Megane starts at £24kish?
So what £17-£20k car are you comparing the ED35 to?
Focus RS with the Mountune 350 kit was under 26k at the time a little under 24k without brand new 0 miles.
A friend purchased a VXR Racing for under 18K a little after i bought my focus brand new zero miles.
The Megane can be had with large discounts i spoke to a sales person at Enfield pagent and Goodwood and seem to remember a price just north of 20k being attainable.
I suspect nothing much will have changed in that time if anything the Ford and Vauxhall will be even cheaper as they are outgoing models and the Megane is older.
From experience every manufacturer offers huge discounts with VW/Mini/Audi,etc generally being an exception. List prices on a lot of cars are pointless which is why i never understood magazine roads tests (See AutoExpress). What is the point in comparing the two cars on their list price if one can easily be had far far cheaper with relatively little/or no haggling???
All my opinion of course..................each to their own
St John Smythe said:
thewheelman said:
ArosaMike said:
thewheelman said:
That's your perception, in reality it has no more "class" than a Ford Focus, & build quality certainly is no better. As i said before, VW are great at marketing & some suckers fall for that.
I don't agree with that. Having seen/heard the way that Ford cars are engineered at an OEM level, they really aren't as good as VW. Everything at Ford is cost, cost, cost. If they have the choice between a really good engineering solution and an OK solution that's not as good, but cheaper, they'll choose the cheaper option every time sacrificing some element of component performance/life/quality. VW and the other German manufacturers have a very different outlook and are very much engineering/quality driven. They tend to see the benefits of an engineering led company and accept slightly higher piece price/development cost offset against lower warranty claims and volume costs.No, VW aren't problem free by any stretch, but then neither is anyone else, and the fundamental design is generally better. You find higher quality materials and better general design in a VW than a Ford.
Which part is it that you're struggling with? As for research, many years in the motor industry in many aspects, including r&d, racing, sales, testing & more. I notice you don't ask the same question of the person i actually replied to......but then he's pro your choice of car. Why you're taking it personally is a puzzle to me.
Edited by thewheelman on Thursday 3rd November 14:31
thewheelman said:
That was the German philosophy in the 80's & right up to the mid 90's, but those days are long gone, & you're wrong by stating that about Ford. The Focus has beaten the Golf at its own game. You seem to think that all Golfs are built in Germany, when the fact is a high percentage of Focus' are built in Germany.
I'll fully back you up here wheelman. All one has to do in step into a new Mondeo and then a Passat - and if they are still not convinced about Ford's then just drive both. I rest my/your case. P.s. If we were still in the 80's or 90's, VW for the win on quality hands down.
Edited by Johnboy Mac on Thursday 3rd November 14:31
thewheelman said:
Cassius81 said:
thewheelman said:
Diamond blue said:
Couple of points re the price,
£30k seems a great deal for a Golf BUT Golfs have premium class quality, no question, certainly a match for BMW IMO, so comparing it to a new 1 series or a 3 series for example is not unfair.
Cost of an F30 (New) 328i is going to be (like for like spec) £37-£38k+
Most cars in this class are leased or financed and therefore depreciation is the single most important cost. GTI Ed35 will be cheaper than a Megane RS 250 in that comparison even though it"appears" to be £3-£4k more expensive.55-60% retained value after 3 years I would think.
But for me the classlessness of the Golf is a really appealing aspect. It just doesn't have the image problems that Audi and BMW especially seem to suffer from.
Its also a very sensible practical every day family car that can take a B road apart almost as well as anything else remotely in its class.
The default choice for sure (Although if we all thought like that it would be a boring old world)
That's your perception, in reality it has no more "class" than a Ford Focus, & build quality certainly is no better. As i said before, VW are great at marketing & some suckers fall for that. £30k seems a great deal for a Golf BUT Golfs have premium class quality, no question, certainly a match for BMW IMO, so comparing it to a new 1 series or a 3 series for example is not unfair.
Cost of an F30 (New) 328i is going to be (like for like spec) £37-£38k+
Most cars in this class are leased or financed and therefore depreciation is the single most important cost. GTI Ed35 will be cheaper than a Megane RS 250 in that comparison even though it"appears" to be £3-£4k more expensive.55-60% retained value after 3 years I would think.
But for me the classlessness of the Golf is a really appealing aspect. It just doesn't have the image problems that Audi and BMW especially seem to suffer from.
Its also a very sensible practical every day family car that can take a B road apart almost as well as anything else remotely in its class.
The default choice for sure (Although if we all thought like that it would be a boring old world)
For me, a Focus (and indeed almost all other sporty hatches) have little class, whereas a Golf has some. Which is why I bought one. To use another example, in the same way as I'd take a stock Rangie TDV8 in a nice simple colour, with standard wheels, rather than one of those horrific Overfinch conversions. Which are the RR equivalent of a Focus RS. To me, anyway.
I had a Mk II Gti back in 1989....absolutely loved that car and have some very fond memoried. I've thought quite hard about trying to buy one again....unolested ones go for goo dmoney now though. My wife's car isa Mk V Gti....it's a nie car to drive but maybe because I've had much more powerful cars I don't feel it's that exciting. Very competant and fun to drive but not that quick.
Beardy10 said:
I had a Mk II Gti back in 1989....absolutely loved that car and have some very fond memoried. I've thought quite hard about trying to buy one again....unolested ones go for goo dmoney now though. My wife's car isa Mk V Gti....it's a nie car to drive but maybe because I've had much more powerful cars I don't feel it's that exciting. Very competant and fun to drive but not that quick.
I agree with you re pace - the Mk5 GTI is fun, yes, but it really isn't that fast. Decent modern turbo diesels (such as the GTD) can keep up happily enough...Johnboy Mac said:
thewheelman said:
That was the German philosophy in the 80's & right up to the mid 90's, but those days are long gone, & you're wrong by stating that about Ford. The Focus has beaten the Golf at its own game. You seem to think that all Golfs are built in Germany, when the fact is a high percentage of Focus' are built in Germany.
I'll fully back you up here wheelman. All one has to do in step into a new Mondeo and then a Passat - and if they are still not convinced about Ford's then just drive both. I rest my/your case. P.s. If were still in the 80's or 90's, VW for the win on quality hands down.
Cassius81 said:
I agree with you re pace - the Mk5 GTI is fun, yes, but it really isn't that fast. Decent modern turbo diesels (such as the GTD) can keep up happily enough...
But a GTi or it's ilk are not soley about being fast, it's the whole package. Thus, a GTi is a far better tool than GTD unless mpg and towing are major issues. Froomee said:
Morba said:
Froomee said:
if you pay £28k for a Golf you will almost certainly lose a lot more ££££ when compared to something like a £17-20K Leon/Focus/Astra/Octavia/Renault that offers similar practicality and performance.
Focus RS is more than £28k new isn't it?Sporty Megane starts at £24kish?
So what £17-£20k car are you comparing the ED35 to?
Cassius81 said:
thewheelman said:
Cassius81 said:
thewheelman said:
Diamond blue said:
Couple of points re the price,
£30k seems a great deal for a Golf BUT Golfs have premium class quality, no question, certainly a match for BMW IMO, so comparing it to a new 1 series or a 3 series for example is not unfair.
Cost of an F30 (New) 328i is going to be (like for like spec) £37-£38k+
Most cars in this class are leased or financed and therefore depreciation is the single most important cost. GTI Ed35 will be cheaper than a Megane RS 250 in that comparison even though it"appears" to be £3-£4k more expensive.55-60% retained value after 3 years I would think.
But for me the classlessness of the Golf is a really appealing aspect. It just doesn't have the image problems that Audi and BMW especially seem to suffer from.
Its also a very sensible practical every day family car that can take a B road apart almost as well as anything else remotely in its class.
The default choice for sure (Although if we all thought like that it would be a boring old world)
That's your perception, in reality it has no more "class" than a Ford Focus, & build quality certainly is no better. As i said before, VW are great at marketing & some suckers fall for that. £30k seems a great deal for a Golf BUT Golfs have premium class quality, no question, certainly a match for BMW IMO, so comparing it to a new 1 series or a 3 series for example is not unfair.
Cost of an F30 (New) 328i is going to be (like for like spec) £37-£38k+
Most cars in this class are leased or financed and therefore depreciation is the single most important cost. GTI Ed35 will be cheaper than a Megane RS 250 in that comparison even though it"appears" to be £3-£4k more expensive.55-60% retained value after 3 years I would think.
But for me the classlessness of the Golf is a really appealing aspect. It just doesn't have the image problems that Audi and BMW especially seem to suffer from.
Its also a very sensible practical every day family car that can take a B road apart almost as well as anything else remotely in its class.
The default choice for sure (Although if we all thought like that it would be a boring old world)
For me, a Focus (and indeed almost all other sporty hatches) have little class, whereas a Golf has some. Which is why I bought one. To use another example, in the same way as I'd take a stock Rangie TDV8 in a nice simple colour, with standard wheels, rather than one of those horrific Overfinch conversions. Which are the RR equivalent of a Focus RS. To me, anyway.
Edited by thewheelman on Thursday 3rd November 15:02
thewheelman said:
St John Smythe said:
thewheelman said:
ArosaMike said:
thewheelman said:
That's your perception, in reality it has no more "class" than a Ford Focus, & build quality certainly is no better. As i said before, VW are great at marketing & some suckers fall for that.
I don't agree with that. Having seen/heard the way that Ford cars are engineered at an OEM level, they really aren't as good as VW. Everything at Ford is cost, cost, cost. If they have the choice between a really good engineering solution and an OK solution that's not as good, but cheaper, they'll choose the cheaper option every time sacrificing some element of component performance/life/quality. VW and the other German manufacturers have a very different outlook and are very much engineering/quality driven. They tend to see the benefits of an engineering led company and accept slightly higher piece price/development cost offset against lower warranty claims and volume costs.No, VW aren't problem free by any stretch, but then neither is anyone else, and the fundamental design is generally better. You find higher quality materials and better general design in a VW than a Ford.
Which part is it that you're struggling with? As for research, many years in the motor industry in many aspects, including r&d, racing, sales, testing & more. I notice you don't ask the same question of the person i actually replied to......but then he's pro your choice of car. Why you're taking it personally is a puzzle to me.
Edited by thewheelman on Thursday 3rd November 14:31
DavidLScott said:
I had a Mk1 1600, a Mk1 1800 and 3 Mk2's when they were contemporary and they were all brilliant cars for their time.
Moved on to VR6 Storm Corrdado's and that ended my VW ownership (apart from an ill fated heap of a Golf 4 Motion).
I tried a Mk5 a couple of years ago with the thought that I might rekindle an old love affair but it left me stone cold I'm afraid so I stayed with BMW.
There is still a soft spot in my heart for older GTi's and I wish we hadn't sold my wife's Mk2 but maybe you can't look back as it was probably all rose tinted.
Had many Mk1 1600 and 1800 golf GTIs (I used to buy and sell them as well as run them). Just the best fun, not at all like the new ones.. Moved on to VR6 Storm Corrdado's and that ended my VW ownership (apart from an ill fated heap of a Golf 4 Motion).
I tried a Mk5 a couple of years ago with the thought that I might rekindle an old love affair but it left me stone cold I'm afraid so I stayed with BMW.
There is still a soft spot in my heart for older GTi's and I wish we hadn't sold my wife's Mk2 but maybe you can't look back as it was probably all rose tinted.
Morba said:
Froomee said:
Morba said:
Froomee said:
if you pay £28k for a Golf you will almost certainly lose a lot more ££££ when compared to something like a £17-20K Leon/Focus/Astra/Octavia/Renault that offers similar practicality and performance.
Focus RS is more than £28k new isn't it?Sporty Megane starts at £24kish?
So what £17-£20k car are you comparing the ED35 to?
Cassius81 said:
thewheelman said:
Cassius81 said:
thewheelman said:
Diamond blue said:
Couple of points re the price,
£30k seems a great deal for a Golf BUT Golfs have premium class quality, no question, certainly a match for BMW IMO, so comparing it to a new 1 series or a 3 series for example is not unfair.
Cost of an F30 (New) 328i is going to be (like for like spec) £37-£38k+
Most cars in this class are leased or financed and therefore depreciation is the single most important cost. GTI Ed35 will be cheaper than a Megane RS 250 in that comparison even though it"appears" to be £3-£4k more expensive.55-60% retained value after 3 years I would think.
But for me the classlessness of the Golf is a really appealing aspect. It just doesn't have the image problems that Audi and BMW especially seem to suffer from.
Its also a very sensible practical every day family car that can take a B road apart almost as well as anything else remotely in its class.
The default choice for sure (Although if we all thought like that it would be a boring old world)
That's your perception, in reality it has no more "class" than a Ford Focus, & build quality certainly is no better. As i said before, VW are great at marketing & some suckers fall for that. £30k seems a great deal for a Golf BUT Golfs have premium class quality, no question, certainly a match for BMW IMO, so comparing it to a new 1 series or a 3 series for example is not unfair.
Cost of an F30 (New) 328i is going to be (like for like spec) £37-£38k+
Most cars in this class are leased or financed and therefore depreciation is the single most important cost. GTI Ed35 will be cheaper than a Megane RS 250 in that comparison even though it"appears" to be £3-£4k more expensive.55-60% retained value after 3 years I would think.
But for me the classlessness of the Golf is a really appealing aspect. It just doesn't have the image problems that Audi and BMW especially seem to suffer from.
Its also a very sensible practical every day family car that can take a B road apart almost as well as anything else remotely in its class.
The default choice for sure (Although if we all thought like that it would be a boring old world)
For me, a Focus (and indeed almost all other sporty hatches) have little class, whereas a Golf has some. Which is why I bought one. To use another example, in the same way as I'd take a stock Rangie TDV8 in a nice simple colour, with standard wheels, rather than one of those horrific Overfinch conversions. Which are the RR equivalent of a Focus RS. To me, anyway.
Johnboy Mac said:
Cassius81 said:
I agree with you re pace - the Mk5 GTI is fun, yes, but it really isn't that fast. Decent modern turbo diesels (such as the GTD) can keep up happily enough...
But a GTi or it's ilk are not soley about being fast, it's the whole package. Thus, a GTi is a far better tool than GTD unless mpg and towing are major issues. Now back with an 06 Mk5 GTi and it delivers a great drive, an appropriate image (as debated at length here), and great real-world value.
Yes I think I'm still a petrolhead even if I don't do trackdays or other carclub stuff... A lottery win would see me going for a MkII, H-van, and maybe a 40 foot motor-sailer too...
Edited by New Scot on Thursday 3rd November 15:22
Edited by New Scot on Thursday 3rd November 15:52
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